2013-2014 Wizard's lineup

[SUPERBALLMAN]

If we sign Harrington...


Looking at starting 5 of Okafor, Nene, Webster, Beal, Wall.

I like this 5, with Okafor and Nene as a new version of the beef brothers working inside, with sharpshooters Webster and Beal on the Wings, and Wall running the show.

Harrington and Ariza off the bench. Harrington at PF, with Okafor at C or slide Nene up to C. Ariza at SF with Beal at SG or slide Webster to SG, working this as our primary top 7 core.

Seraphin, Booker, Porter, Maynor as next wave of reserves makes this team a pretty solid 11 deep.

Vesely, Singleton, Rice, Temple fill out the roster.

[Upper Decker]

I think it's dangerous practice to have a rotation that's more than 9-10 players for a couple reasons 1) usually your 10th and 11th guys just aren't good and cause a negative line-up, and 2) good players expect to get burn. What will Wall, Beal, or Martell think if their time get's cut from one year to the next. I'd be pissed. Wall deserves 38 mpg, Beal 36 mpg, Webster 30 MPG, etc.

My rotation would be:
Wall(38)/Maynor(10)
Beal(36)/Martell(12)
Martell(18)/Ariza(26)/Porter(4ish)
Nene(18)/Harrington(20)/Booker(10ish)
Okafor(30)/Nene(10)/Seraphin(8ish)

Porter, Booker, Seraphin would be the deep bench players and only be brought in if the starters are really struggling. Porter, Booker, and Seraphin should get routine CD-DNP unless they totally blow away the coaching staff with their improvement. Of these three I think Booker may actually solidify himself as the 4th big and take all extra minutes after Nene, Okafor, and Harrington.

[Nivek]

Wow, 4 minutes for Porter? As a third overall pick, that would put him in abject bust territory.

When I look at the roster, there are still gaping holes at PF and C after Nene and Okafor. I still think the team's best option for a stretch 4 is Ariza.

I'd consider going with something like:

PG -- Wall 36 -- Maynor 12
SG -- Beal 32 -- Webster 16
SF -- Webster 16 -- Porter 32
PF -- Nene 8 -- Ariza/Booker/Harrington 40
C -- Okafor 28 -- Nene 20

Maybe Vesely or Seraphin can win some minutes from Ariza/Booker/Harrington.

[hands11]

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/?tag=Washington%20Wizards%20&tagId=0000013b-206c-db26-af3b-edec17ed0000

From the sounds of things from Randy, more front line help is in the plans.

Thanks for posting that. Randy is refreshlingly honest and open (particularly starting at the 7 minute mark) - almost the opposite of EG. Clearly, if he gets his way, the Wiz will acquire a stretch the floor big man. Looking around the Association, there are surprisingly few of them.

np

Yeah. Randy has a good style. When you listen to him and then players like Singleton, you can hear that Randy has been upfront and clear in explaining what he wants from them and how the time is now. Singleton went as far as to say, I need to be consistent with my shot and aggressive ever minutes I am out there. And if I can't do it, they will find someone else.

Hell, even EG did a decent job of echoing the same stuff. Basically said, the time is now for Ves, Singleton, Booker and Kevin. This summer is big for all of them. Yeah, we are still looking, but everyone is always looking. We have 14. If we find the right FA, we may be 15. If the right situation presents itself for a trade, we will make a move. If not, we are good with what we added.

Resigned Webster and Temple
Added Otto, Glen and Maynor vs C Martin, Price, and Collins. I would call that progress.

Still not exactly what I wanted to see, but I did want to see Webby and Temple resigned. I did want more PG vet help, but I wanted to see some help up front. But there is still time for that.

Interesting though.. As of right now, they team actually got even younger. They need to keep a balance.

So they added the PF they kept talking about and in doing so, they added some of the experience and maturity they lost with letting Collins go.

So with that done, looks like all that's left is trade ideas.

PGs - Wall, Maynor, Temple
SGs - Beal, Webster, Temple, Glen
SFs - Webster, Trevor A, Otto
PF - Nene, Al, Kevin, Ves, Booker, Singleton - ( Trevor A/Webster ?)
C - Okafor, Nene, Kevin, Ves

They do appear to be deeper.
Glen replaces Crawford
Maynor seems to be a better ball handing offense running PG type then Price.
Al gives them PF experience they lacked last year with only Nene as an experienced PF

Should be interesting to see who starts the year inactive if they are all healthy.

Going to be a very competitive camp.

[hands11]

Wow, 4 minutes for Porter? As a third overall pick, that would put him in abject bust territory.

When I look at the roster, there are still gaping holes at PF and C after Nene and Okafor. I still think the team's best option for a stretch 4 is Ariza.

I'd consider going with something like:

PG -- Wall 36 -- Maynor 12
SG -- Beal 32 -- Webster 16
SF -- Webster 16 -- Porter 32
PF -- Nene 8 -- Ariza/Booker/Harrington 40
C -- Okafor 28 -- Nene 20

Maybe Vesely or Seraphin can win some minutes from Ariza/Booker/Harrington.

That's something along the lines of what I think I posted before Al, with Okafor and Nene getting most the burn at center as a viable option. But I doubt Otto gets that much burn. Specially to start the year with a tough schedule. I think most those SF min got to Webster and Trevor A.

Kevin and Ves are going battle it out for those PF minutes but I agree, most likely Trevor A get first crack at it as the back up. Maybe AI. I still see back up PF as wide open though. Booker is in the mix, but by no mean written in. Actually I think he may be deep bench to start the year. Its nice to have a Booker, who you know can rebound and an AI who you know is experience as a S4. That give you good options to fall back on. But I expect we see several configurations at PF this year.

I agree, they would be smart to start the year with the line up you know worked last year with is Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene, Okafor.

I think they will start the year with Otto active, but after a few weeks of him traveling with the team and feeling things out, they might send him to the DL. We knew when they added Porter that it was an overload at the SF position this year.

They are shooting for wins and they have a tough schedule to start the year. They are aren't carving out minutes for him just because he was the #3 pick. That doesn't really mean anything at this point. They had the #3 and they used it. Now they have to line up their best players. They have options and time with Otto. If he can beet out Webster and Trevor A for minutes at SF, more power to him.

[Upper Decker]

Wow, 4 minutes for Porter? As a third overall pick, that would put him in abject bust territory.

When I look at the roster, there are still gaping holes at PF and C after Nene and Okafor. I still think the team's best option for a stretch 4 is Ariza.

I'd consider going with something like:

PG -- Wall 36 -- Maynor 12
SG -- Beal 32 -- Webster 16
SF -- Webster 16 -- Porter 32
PF -- Nene 8 -- Ariza/Booker/Harrington 40
C -- Okafor 28 -- Nene 20

Maybe Vesely or Seraphin can win some minutes from Ariza/Booker/Harrington.

I believe Porter will be ineffective and unproductive this season. I don't think he has the skills or body at this point to be a solid rotation player for a team with an obnoxious singular vision of "playoff starts here". I don't see any scenarios where Porter comes in and beats out Webster or Ariza for minutes. This isn't because I have little faith in Porter, but I think Webster and Ariza provide a strong rotation at the SF spot. Ariza is one of the top wing defenders in the league and Webster will justifiably get the 3rd most minutes on the team. With the addition of Harrington I think Ariza will get little time at the 4, maybe occasionally, but I don't think that'll be the game plan.

[Nivek]

I think Porter will be okay -- pretty comparable to Beal, and Beal played 31.2 mpg last season. A lot more competition for minutes at SF, though. So, maybe something like:

PG -- Wall 36, Maynor 12
SG -- Beal 32, Webster 16
SF -- Webster 16, Ariza 12, Porter 20
PF -- Nene 8, Ariza/Booker/Harrington 40
C -- Okafor 28, Nene 20

I think Porter is going to get minutes almost no matter what because he was the third pick. Early in careers, playing time is heavily influenced by where a player got drafted -- regardless of performance/production. Porter would have to be historically bad to not get minutes.

[fishercob]

I think Porter will be okay -- pretty comparable to Beal, and Beal played 31.2 mpg last season. A lot more competition for minutes at SF, though. So, maybe something like:

PG -- Wall 36, Maynor 12
SG -- Beal 32, Webster 16
SF -- Webster 16, Ariza 12, Porter 20
PF -- Nene 8, Ariza/Booker/Harrington 40
C -- Okafor 28, Nene 20

I think Porter is going to get minutes almost no matter what because he was the third pick. Early in careers, playing time is heavily influenced by where a player got drafted -- regardless of performance/production. Porter would have to be historically bad to not get minutes.

This is largely what I'd expect as well.

I think you'll see slightly more Nene at the 4 and a bit of Seraphin at the 5.

I think Ariza gets somewhere around 25 mpg total. How much is left for Booker and Harrington will probably be determined by Booker and Harrington's collective health.

I will be very intersted to see how Nene performs at PF vs C. If he's an effective defensive anchor and efficient scorer as a center I think he gets moved there full time next year and Okafor is either retained at a significant discount or not at all.

What I do like about this highly imperfect roster is that it gives the Wiz the opportunity to look at guys in different spots/roles so as to determine how to maximize their effectiveness. I think that's important as they head into a summer where they may have substantial cap room and the ability to add talent via signings or trades.

[dckingsfan]

PG -- Wall 36 -- Maynor 12 (sadly, I think the Maynor minutes will bite us...

SG -- Beal 32 -- Webster 16 (knowing Whit, he will get minutes in for Temple and not add any minutes in for Rice)

SF -- Webster 16 -- Porter 32 (I have to believe he will limit Porter's minutes - I think he would have limited Beal's minutes if he had a choice as a rookie) I think Ariza will get some minutes here...

PF -- Nene 8 -- Ariza/Booker/Harrington 40 (This is going to be weird - and is going to cause us to lose hair)

C -- Okafor 28 -- Nene 20 (And Seraphin will get minutes when Okafor and Nene miss a few inevitable games)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

One thing about drafting Porter that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me was that SF was actually a strong position for the Wizards. Below is just one link, Ariza lineups. I've looked at Webster lineups and Singleton lineups as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eups/2013/

The best 2-Man Combinations were Ariza/Webster and Ariza/Singleton

The two best 3-Man Combinations featuring Ariza were Wall/Webster/Ariza and Webster/Ariza/Nene.

In support of what Nivek said about Ariza at stretch four, the best 5-Man combination was: Wall/Beal/Webster/Ariza/Okafor.

A really good 5-Man lineup used Singleton with Webster and Ariza;
Wall/Webster/Ariza/Singleton/Nene.

The Wizards had success with quite a few lineups that had Ariza and Webster on the floor together. Singleton played very well with Ariza but poorly with Webster. Singleton with Okafor was disastrously bad (yet not in the 5-Man lineup above), but Singleton with Nene worked very well.

Instead of drafting Porter, IMO the Wizard would have been far better off drafting a backup to Okafor and Nene. Olynyk or Zeller IMO would have made a lot more sense.

As it is, Porter will probably play minutes because of where he was drafted, but he won't be better than Ariza or Webster, and with some combinations not as good as Singleton. I know he's a better player than Singleton, but some things were okay WITH Singleton last season.

[LyricalRico]

^ Interesting points, CCJ. One of the reasons I supported the Porter pick as much as I did was that I fully expected the Wizards to trade Ariza. I actually wasn't expecting signings like Maynor and Harrington because I thought we'd package Ariza and a youngster or two for the depth we needed.

But I still don't see having Ariza play ahead of Porter for one season as an issue. IMO it just gives Porter another guy to learn from and makes him fight for minutes right off the bat. If Ariza was on a longterm deal, then I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Since his contract is expiring and he could still be dealt at the deadline, I'm not concerned.

[hands11]

Wow, 4 minutes for Porter? As a third overall pick, that would put him in abject bust territory.

When I look at the roster, there are still gaping holes at PF and C after Nene and Okafor. I still think the team's best option for a stretch 4 is Ariza.

I'd consider going with something like:

PG -- Wall 36 -- Maynor 12
SG -- Beal 32 -- Webster 16
SF -- Webster 16 -- Porter 32
PF -- Nene 8 -- Ariza/Booker/Harrington 40
C -- Okafor 28 -- Nene 20

Maybe Vesely or Seraphin can win some minutes from Ariza/Booker/Harrington.

I believe Porter will be ineffective and unproductive this season. I don't think he has the skills or body at this point to be a solid rotation player for a team with an obnoxious singular vision of "playoff starts here". I don't see any scenarios where Porter comes in and beats out Webster or Ariza for minutes. This isn't because I have little faith in Porter, but I think Webster and Ariza provide a strong rotation at the SF spot. Ariza is one of the top wing defenders in the league and Webster will justifiably get the 3rd most minutes on the team. With the addition of Harrington I think Ariza will get little time at the 4, maybe occasionally, but I don't think that'll be the game plan.

Totally agree. Except until we know more, Al could be anything from starter to first off the bench to break in case of emergency. Which is where I see Booker right now.

I'm hoping for the last one because that would mean Kevin or Ves really stepped it up. Both are putting in good summers so I'm hoping it pays off. First they needed improved stills. Then we need to see a maturity step made.

What do I expect. I expect they start the year with Al slotted somewhere between first off the bench or 10 min rotation player. That could mean Trevor A is in the mix at PF. It could mean Kevin and Ves are getting their shot at it. That's where I think the team needs to be going into the season. Solid line ups but Ves and Kevin showing enough to earn development minutes.

[hands11]

One thing about drafting Porter that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me was that SF was actually a strong position for the Wizards. Below is just one link, Ariza lineups. I've looked at Webster lineups and Singleton lineups as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eups/2013/

The best 2-Man Combinations were Ariza/Webster and Ariza/Singleton

The two best 3-Man Combinations featuring Ariza were Wall/Webster/Ariza and Webster/Ariza/Nene.

In support of what Nivek said about Ariza at stretch four, the best 5-Man combination was: Wall/Beal/Webster/Ariza/Okafor.

A really good 5-Man lineup used Singleton with Webster and Ariza;
Wall/Webster/Ariza/Singleton/Nene.

The Wizards had success with quite a few lineups that had Ariza and Webster on the floor together. Singleton played very well with Ariza but poorly with Webster. Singleton with Okafor was disastrously bad (yet not in the 5-Man lineup above), but Singleton with Nene worked very well.

Instead of drafting Porter, IMO the Wizard would have been far better off drafting a backup to Okafor and Nene. Olynyk or Zeller IMO would have made a lot more sense.

As it is, Porter will probably play minutes because of where he was drafted, but he won't be better than Ariza or Webster, and with some combinations not as good as Singleton. I know he's a better player than Singleton, but some things were okay WITH Singleton last season.

I posted this before but here it is again.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... 3/lineups/

Filter by pts. Sure Trevor was in the best line up. 28 minutes of that line up.

The real best line up was

B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | J. Wall | M. Webster +27 over 141 minutes.

Interesting that this line up below doesn't show up in the main search but does in your Trevor A filtered search. For Trevor A line ups you get.

T. Ariza | B. Beal | E. Okafor | J. Wall | M. Webster +64 in 27 min

Then

T. Ariza | N. Hilario | C. Singleton | J. Wall | M. Webster +32 in 28 minutes

T. Ariza | B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | J. Wall was -7 in 28 minutes.

Very mix bag for Trevor A line ups but the first one look promising in a small sample size and the second one with Al in for Singleton could be equally interesting to look at.

Best 4 man line ups where

B. Beal | E. Okafor | J. Wall | M. Webster
B. Beal | N. Hilario | J. Wall | M. Webster
B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | J. Wall
N. Hilario | E. Okafor | A. Price | M. Webster
B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | M. Webster

two and three man line ups don't mean much really. Teams play 5 on 5

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I posted this before but here it is again.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... 3/lineups/

Filter by pts. Sure Trevor was in the best line up. All 28 minutes of that line up.

The real best line up was

B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | J. Wall | M. Webster

This line up with +27 over 141 minutes.

I trust that a lot more than +32 in over 28 minutes for the line up you posted.

T. Ariza | B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | J. Wall was -7 in 28 minutes.

Best 4 man line ups where

B. Beal | E. Okafor | J. Wall | M. Webster
B. Beal | N. Hilario | J. Wall | M. Webster
B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | J. Wall
N. Hilario | E. Okafor | A. Price | M. Webster
B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | M. Webster


two and three man line ups don't mean much really. Teams play 5 on 5

Hands, the lineup with 141 minutes had Webster, another SF. NOTHING about your post changes my point that Otto Porter at SF doesn't address a weakness. The SF position was strong last season.

Also, I knew the lineup of 141 minutes featured Wall and Nene. I already knew this and it makes me think you're being a bit of a jerk assuming I didn't. I posted it in the first place.

My point is IMO they would have been in even better shape if they drafted a good PF and not Otto Porter.

[hands11]

One thing about drafting Porter that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me was that SF was actually a strong position for the Wizards. Below is just one link, Ariza lineups. I've looked at Webster lineups and Singleton lineups as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eups/2013/

The best 2-Man Combinations were Ariza/Webster and Ariza/Singleton

The two best 3-Man Combinations featuring Ariza were Wall/Webster/Ariza and Webster/Ariza/Nene.

In support of what Nivek said about Ariza at stretch four, the best 5-Man combination was: Wall/Beal/Webster/Ariza/Okafor.

A really good 5-Man lineup used Singleton with Webster and Ariza;
Wall/Webster/Ariza/Singleton/Nene.

The Wizards had success with quite a few lineups that had Ariza and Webster on the floor together. Singleton played very well with Ariza but poorly with Webster. Singleton with Okafor was disastrously bad (yet not in the 5-Man lineup above), but Singleton with Nene worked very well.

Instead of drafting Porter, IMO the Wizard would have been far better off drafting a backup to Okafor and Nene. Olynyk or Zeller IMO would have made a lot more sense.

As it is, Porter will probably play minutes because of where he was drafted, but he won't be better than Ariza or Webster, and with some combinations not as good as Singleton. I know he's a better player than Singleton, but some things were okay WITH Singleton last season.

I posted this before but here it is again.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... 3/lineups/

Filter by pts. Sure Trevor was in the best line up. All 28 minutes of that line up.

The real best line up was

B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | J. Wall | M. Webster

This line up with +27 over 141 minutes.

I trust that a lot more than +32 in over 28 minutes for the line up you posted.

T. Ariza | B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | J. Wall was -7 in 28 minutes.

Best 4 man line ups where

B. Beal | E. Okafor | J. Wall | M. Webster
B. Beal | N. Hilario | J. Wall | M. Webster
B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | J. Wall
N. Hilario | E. Okafor | A. Price | M. Webster
B. Beal | N. Hilario | E. Okafor | M. Webster


two and three man line ups don't mean much really. Teams play 5 on 5

Hands, the lineup with 141 minutes had Webster, another SF.

NOTHING about your post changes my point that Otto Porter at SF doesn't address a weakness. The SF position was strong last season.

Also, I knew the lineup of 141 minutes featured Wall and Nene. I already knew this and it makes me think you're being a bit of a jerk assuming I didn't. I posted it in the first place.

I posted the same thing and said he should start the year with the team and then after a few weeks they should send him to DL.

I think we are actually a lot more in agreement regarding the other options then anything. If I came across otherwise, my bad. Wasn't trying to ruffle and feathers.

I agree a back up or future center would have been a viable option. As it would have been to add a CJM. So would Zeller or Kelly. But this is another one of those interim rosters. Built for Wall and Beal to get to the playoffs while giving Kevin and Ves one last chance to prove where they belong. They picked up Glen cheap.

I've fine with what they did. Could have maybe done better. Clearly a clutter at SF this year but there would have been a clutter PF with Zeller or Kelly. Instead they got a S4 vet on a one year, cheap. Not a bad move.

I think one thing is becoming more clear, the next move might be a big one.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I read it as you saying that wasn't the best 5-man lineup. My bad, hands.

We do agree about Porter and D-League.

Right now, I would say a draft of Noel, Olynyk, or Zeller (maybe the best of all) would have been better. However, I hope Otto proves to be a very useful player.

[Nivek]

I agree with your point about the team needing frontcourt help. I'm a big proponent of best player available. In YODA, both Zeller and Noel rated a little ahead of Porter. And taking one of those two would have has the bonus of fitting a need. I still think Porter will make a good pro, though.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Possibly more appropriate for the Nene thread, but I can't find it...

A major part of if this team is going to be legit is the health and condition of Nene. IF Nene is 100% and has shed the weight, he makes this team a tough matchup for anyone. His skill is unquestionable, and if he can regain the physical abilities he had a few years back, to go with Wall shreading defenses, Beal and Webster's shooting, Okafor dominating the boards, Ariza's D this team could be dangerous. Add in Booker laying the hammer, the emergence of Otto Porter, and anything positive we get from the likes of Maynor, Harrington and Seraphin, and an X-factor in Rice, and this team could be a surprise, and alot of fun to watch this year.

But has anyone heard ANYTHNG about Nene this offseason?? While Wall, Beal, Seraphin, Okafor, etc have been pretty visible in their offseason efforts, I haven't heard a single report as of yet on Nene. Perhaps he's just resting?

[hands11]

Possibly more appropriate for the Nene thread, but I can't find it...

A major part of if this team is going to be legit is the health and condition of Nene. IF Nene is 100% and has shed the weight, he makes this team a tough matchup for anyone. His skill is unquestionable, and if he can regain the physical abilities he had a few years back, to go with Wall shreading defenses, Beal and Webster's shooting, Okafor dominating the boards, Ariza's D this team could be dangerous. Add in Booker laying the hammer, the emergence of Otto Porter, and anything positive we get from the likes of Maynor, Harrington and Seraphin, and an X-factor in Rice, and this team could be a surprise, and alot of fun to watch this year.

But has anyone heard ANYTHNG about Nene this offseason?? While Wall, Beal, Seraphin, Okafor, etc have been pretty visible in their offseason efforts, I haven't heard a single report as of yet on Nene. Perhaps he's just resting?

Yes. Ted spoke about him in the press conference when the signed Wall. Said he looked great and lost weight.

Nene thread was on page 2.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1169944&start=240

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I like the way this team has shaken out. I like the young trio Wall, Beal, Porter as the foundation. I like the vets we have assembled around them with Nene, Okafor, Ariza, Harrington, Webster to stabilize the foundation while making it a playoff caliber team now, while the young trio grow and form into the future. In addition we have a group of young players like Seraphin, Booker, Singleton, Vesely, Rice, Maynor, which may yet yield another core piece or two for the future.

Beyond that, we have our future draft picks in tact, we have a bunch of expiring contracts providing flexibility, and the ability to pick and choose who we want to keep or if we want to add players via trades or free agency as we move forward.

Overall this team is in a pretty good place. Really we are just now reaching a point of full recovery from the big 3 overhaul / Arenas guns in the locker room recovery. IMO this is our 1 year since in terms of on the court. Next offseason will represent this franchises full recovery and return from the abyss, and when this team has the ability to start making major steps forward since Ted has taken over.