Jazzfan1971's Preseason Commentary

[KissedByaRose1]

The Pacers aren't a better team than the Bulls. Wins, playoffs, anyway that you want yo define it.

They won 49 games last year which was only 4 games more than a incredibly injured Bulls team without their MVP for the whole season.

People are forgetting that Roy Hibbert was below average offensively for the whole season and playing against the Heat who have no serviceable bigs made him look like Patrick Ewing for 7 games.

If you want to compare offseason moves that's fine.

Pacers get Granger back who shouldn't be in the starting lineup because George's natural position is the 3 and would be best used as a scoring plug off of the bench. Scola was a very nice pickup as well.

Bulls will be inserting Jimmy Butler into the SG position for the entire year, added a bleh shooter in Dunleavy and are getting their MVP back. A top 5 player when healthy.

[Trader_Joe]

The Pacers aren't a better team than the Bulls. Wins, playoffs, anyway that you want yo define it.

They won 49 games last year which was only 4 games more than a incredibly injured Bulls team without their MVP for the whole season.

People are forgetting that Roy Hibbert was below average offensively for the whole season and playing against the Heat who have no serviceable bigs made him look like Patrick Ewing for 7 games.

If you want to compare offseason moves that's fine.

Pacers get Granger back who shouldn't be in the starting lineup because George's natural position is the 3 and would be best used as a scoring plug off of the bench. Scola was a very nice pickup as well.

Bulls will be inserting Jimmy Butler into the SG position for the entire year, added a bleh shooter in Dunleavy and are getting their MVP back. A top 5 player when healthy.

The Bulls had the best record in the league 2 seasons ago in the lock out shortened season despite Rose missing nearly half of it and CJ Watson starting in his place. I bring that up to accentuate the Bulls win because of their system and Thibs, who says no matter the injuries "they have enough to win"

I don't think Rose is going to make a dramatic difference in the win column (I don't expect 60+ wins, more like 50-55), but he will make a difference in how far they go in the playoffs. But, we don't know if they are getting the MVP back or a compromised version.

Also, the Pacers are getting more than Granger back..they added Scola, Watson and Copeland to accentuate a rather poor bench last season. The Bulls are losing Nate and Marco B. while adding Rose and MDJr.

The Pacers also have major upside to look forward to from George and Hibbert, while Thibs has ridden Deng, Boozer and Noah as hard as he could the last several years and that is why tend to break down by the end of the season.

And your point about Hibbert actually favors the Pacers.
He found his confidence in the playoffs and looked great against NY and Chandler and the Heat. Assuming he reverts back to form and carries that confidence he will assure more regular season wins.

[floppymoose]

"Opposing coaches will have some tough decisions to make when they see a lineup of Paul, Redick, Dudley, Griffin, and Mullens."

Yeah. They'll be wondering which side of the basket their team should dunk on.

[SF_Warriors]

"Opposing coaches will have some tough decisions to make when they see a lineup of Paul, Redick, Dudley, Griffin, and Mullens."

Yeah. They'll be wondering which side of the basket their team should dunk on.

Haha. But as funny as that statement was, LAC actually improved swapping green/butler for reddick/dudley.

They didn't become more dynamic, but their floor spacing improved dramatically.
It will be tough to justify leaving either reddick and dudley to double CP3 and BG.

But they are very vulnerable if they do not shore up that front court
Not sure how he did it, but byron mullens shot 38.6% FROM THE FIELD at 7 foot tall and playing 27 min/game.
The guy attempted like 4 3's a game..WTF?? whoever their coach was i hope he was fired for letting him do that. Wait, I think he was.

[KissedByaRose1]

The Pacers aren't a better team than the Bulls. Wins, playoffs, anyway that you want yo define it.

They won 49 games last year which was only 4 games more than a incredibly injured Bulls team without their MVP for the whole season.

People are forgetting that Roy Hibbert was below average offensively for the whole season and playing against the Heat who have no serviceable bigs made him look like Patrick Ewing for 7 games.

If you want to compare offseason moves that's fine.

Pacers get Granger back who shouldn't be in the starting lineup because George's natural position is the 3 and would be best used as a scoring plug off of the bench. Scola was a very nice pickup as well.

Bulls will be inserting Jimmy Butler into the SG position for the entire year, added a bleh shooter in Dunleavy and are getting their MVP back. A top 5 player when healthy.

The Bulls had the best record in the league 2 seasons ago in the lock out shortened season despite Rose missing nearly half of it and CJ Watson starting in his place. I bring that up to accentuate the Bulls win because of their system and Thibs, who says no matter the injuries "they have enough to win"

I don't think Rose is going to make a dramatic difference in the win column (I don't expect 60+ wins, more like 50-55), but he will make a difference in how far they go in the playoffs. But, we don't know if they are getting the MVP back or a compromised version.

Also, the Pacers are getting more than Granger back..they added Scola, Watson and Copeland to accentuate a rather poor bench last season. The Bulls are losing Nate and Marco B. while adding Rose and MDJr.

The Pacers also have major upside to look forward to from George and Hibbert, while Thibs has ridden Deng, Boozer and Noah as hard as he could the last several years and that is why tend to break down by the end of the season.

And your point about Hibbert actually favors the Pacers.
He found his confidence in the playoffs and looked great against NY and Chandler and the Heat. Assuming he reverts back to form and carries that confidence he will assure more regular season wins.

I don't honestly understand how you would think a player like Derrick Rose wouldn't effect the Bulls in the win loss total. We were insanely Offensively challenged last year and when healthy he is a 25PPG scorer.

Blows my mind.

Rose played more than half the year in the lockout shortened season and our bench was considerably better.

[SF_Warriors]

Man, the east has some great potential matchups brewing.
Heat
Bulls
Nets
Knicks
Pacers
(In no particular order)

It is going to be a slug fest in the second round of the playoffs, I love it.

[Trader_Joe]

The Pacers aren't a better team than the Bulls. Wins, playoffs, anyway that you want yo define it.

They won 49 games last year which was only 4 games more than a incredibly injured Bulls team without their MVP for the whole season.

People are forgetting that Roy Hibbert was below average offensively for the whole season and playing against the Heat who have no serviceable bigs made him look like Patrick Ewing for 7 games.

If you want to compare offseason moves that's fine.

Pacers get Granger back who shouldn't be in the starting lineup because George's natural position is the 3 and would be best used as a scoring plug off of the bench. Scola was a very nice pickup as well.

Bulls will be inserting Jimmy Butler into the SG position for the entire year, added a bleh shooter in Dunleavy and are getting their MVP back. A top 5 player when healthy.

The Bulls had the best record in the league 2 seasons ago in the lock out shortened season despite Rose missing nearly half of it and CJ Watson starting in his place. I bring that up to accentuate the Bulls win because of their system and Thibs, who says no matter the injuries "they have enough to win"

I don't think Rose is going to make a dramatic difference in the win column (I don't expect 60+ wins, more like 50-55), but he will make a difference in how far they go in the playoffs. But, we don't know if they are getting the MVP back or a compromised version.

Also, the Pacers are getting more than Granger back..they added Scola, Watson and Copeland to accentuate a rather poor bench last season. The Bulls are losing Nate and Marco B. while adding Rose and MDJr.

The Pacers also have major upside to look forward to from George and Hibbert, while Thibs has ridden Deng, Boozer and Noah as hard as he could the last several years and that is why tend to break down by the end of the season.

And your point about Hibbert actually favors the Pacers.
He found his confidence in the playoffs and looked great against NY and Chandler and the Heat. Assuming he reverts back to form and carries that confidence he will assure more regular season wins.

I don't honestly understand how you would think a player like Derrick Rose wouldn't effect the Bulls in the win loss total. We were insanely Offensively challenged last year and when healthy he is a 25PPG scorer.

Blows my mind.

Rose played more than half the year in the lockout shortened season and our bench was considerably better.

I said a dramatic win difference.
Of course they will win more games, but your team is built on a system and defense. 55 wins would still be a 10 game improvement, but I expect the Pacers to win more.

[dice]

I don't think Rose is going to make a dramatic difference in the win column (I don't expect 60+ wins, more like 50-55)

absolutely no way the bulls only win in the low 50s barring significant injury woes

Also, the Pacers are getting more than Granger back..they added Scola, Watson and Copeland to accentuate a rather poor bench last season

granger's still a big question mark. scola and watson frankly aren't big upgrades. copeland's interesting at least

The Bulls are losing Nate and Marco B. while adding Rose and MDJr.

both improvements, one of them gigantic. nate wouldn't have even seen much time had he returned

The Pacers also have major upside to look forward to from George and Hibbert

potentially

while Thibs has ridden Deng, Boozer and Noah as hard as he could the last several years and that is why tend to break down by the end of the season

boozer has not had big minutes under thibs. and noah only did last year

[Trader_Joe]

absolutely no way the bulls only win in the low 50s barring significant injury woes

And they seem to have them year after year. Why should we think otherwise this year?
Thibs rides his players hard. If he lightens to load and saves them for the playoffs that could impact their win total. If he doesn't, injuries could be a factor again.

As for 50-55 wins. The East will be highly competitive. This isn't 2-3 years ago when the East was a joke and your bench much better with the likes of Asik, Korver, Watson and defenders like Brewer, Bogans.

granger's still a big question mark. scola and watson frankly aren't big upgrades. copeland's interesting at least

They are big upgrades compared to Augustin and Hansbrough.

both improvements, one of them gigantic. nate wouldn't have even seen much time had he returned

Not sure why they could have run with:
Rose/Kirk
Butler/Nate
Deng/MD
And with injuries, yes he could have seen much time.. then again he's most effective in a condensed role.

The Pacers also have major upside to look forward to from George and Hibbert

potentially

Especially in regards to Hibbert's regular season last year they do.

boozer has not had big minutes under thibs. and noah only did last year

Boozer has had plenty of injuries over the years, Noah has and in the playoffs so did Kirk and Deng.
Gibson had injuries as well.
Maybe the tides will turn, chances are they do even out to a certain extent, but there is a pattern.

It will be close, but I think Indy wins at least 2-3 more games than the Bulls.

[dafunky1]

The Pacers aren't a better team than the Bulls. Wins, playoffs, anyway that you want yo define it.

They won 49 games last year which was only 4 games more than a incredibly injured Bulls team without their MVP for the whole season.

People are forgetting that Roy Hibbert was below average offensively for the whole season and playing against the Heat who have no serviceable bigs made him look like Patrick Ewing for 7 games.

If you want to compare offseason moves that's fine.

Pacers get Granger back who shouldn't be in the starting lineup because George's natural position is the 3 and would be best used as a scoring plug off of the bench. Scola was a very nice pickup as well.

Bulls will be inserting Jimmy Butler into the SG position for the entire year, added a bleh shooter in Dunleavy and are getting their MVP back. A top 5 player when healthy.

The Bulls had the best record in the league 2 seasons ago in the lock out shortened season despite Rose missing nearly half of it and CJ Watson starting in his place. I bring that up to accentuate the Bulls win because of their system and Thibs, who says no matter the injuries "they have enough to win"

I don't think Rose is going to make a dramatic difference in the win column (I don't expect 60+ wins, more like 50-55), but he will make a difference in how far they go in the playoffs. But, we don't know if they are getting the MVP back or a compromised version.

Also, the Pacers are getting more than Granger back..they added Scola, Watson and Copeland to accentuate a rather poor bench last season. The Bulls are losing Nate and Marco B. while adding Rose and MDJr.

The Pacers also have major upside to look forward to from George and Hibbert, while Thibs has ridden Deng, Boozer and Noah as hard as he could the last several years and that is why tend to break down by the end of the season.

And your point about Hibbert actually favors the Pacers.
He found his confidence in the playoffs and looked great against NY and Chandler and the Heat. Assuming he reverts back to form and carries that confidence he will assure more regular season wins.

Big difference btw Nate Robinson & Derrick Rose... And whoever said MJD is a bleh shooter.......well he shot over 40% on 3's. MJD is the better player than Marco.

[HartfordWhalers]

ESPN consensus predictions: Warriors 50 wins, Denver 43.

[HartfordWhalers]

double posted

[Trader_Joe]

The Pacers aren't a better team than the Bulls. Wins, playoffs, anyway that you want yo define it.

They won 49 games last year which was only 4 games more than a incredibly injured Bulls team without their MVP for the whole season.

People are forgetting that Roy Hibbert was below average offensively for the whole season and playing against the Heat who have no serviceable bigs made him look like Patrick Ewing for 7 games.

If you want to compare offseason moves that's fine.

Pacers get Granger back who shouldn't be in the starting lineup because George's natural position is the 3 and would be best used as a scoring plug off of the bench. Scola was a very nice pickup as well.

Bulls will be inserting Jimmy Butler into the SG position for the entire year, added a bleh shooter in Dunleavy and are getting their MVP back. A top 5 player when healthy.

The Bulls had the best record in the league 2 seasons ago in the lock out shortened season despite Rose missing nearly half of it and CJ Watson starting in his place. I bring that up to accentuate the Bulls win because of their system and Thibs, who says no matter the injuries "they have enough to win"

I don't think Rose is going to make a dramatic difference in the win column (I don't expect 60+ wins, more like 50-55), but he will make a difference in how far they go in the playoffs. But, we don't know if they are getting the MVP back or a compromised version.

Also, the Pacers are getting more than Granger back..they added Scola, Watson and Copeland to accentuate a rather poor bench last season. The Bulls are losing Nate and Marco B. while adding Rose and MDJr.

The Pacers also have major upside to look forward to from George and Hibbert, while Thibs has ridden Deng, Boozer and Noah as hard as he could the last several years and that is why tend to break down by the end of the season.

And your point about Hibbert actually favors the Pacers.
He found his confidence in the playoffs and looked great against NY and Chandler and the Heat. Assuming he reverts back to form and carries that confidence he will assure more regular season wins.

Big difference btw Nate Robinson & Derrick Rose... And whoever said MJD is a bleh shooter.......well he shot over 40% on 3's. MJD is the better player than Marco.

I'm not sure I said there isn't a big difference.

The question is does:

49 wins as a baseline
+Improved growth + confidence from the ECF
+Granger
+Scola
+Watson
+Copeland
+Non-horrible regular season from Hibbert
-DJ Augustin
-Gerald Green
-Tyler Hansbrough

still trump:

45 wins
+Rose
+MDJr
-Nate
-Marco
-Continued wear and tear of Deng, Boozer, Noah, Hinrich


Also interesting.. despite going 9-3 against Miami, NY and Brooklyn in the regular season, Chicago was 1-3 against the Pacers last year.

[Trader_Joe]

ESPN consensus predictions: Warriors 50 wins, Denver 43.

Yeah, would be interesting to see who's closer. Our very own Jazzfan1971 or ESPN's panel of "Experts"
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/95599 ... -standings
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/95609 ... -standings

[vincecarter4pres]

"Opposing coaches will have some tough decisions to make when they see a lineup of Paul, Redick, Dudley, Griffin, and Mullens."

Yeah. They'll be wondering which side of the basket their team should dunk on.

[dafunky1]

The Bulls had the best record in the league 2 seasons ago in the lock out shortened season despite Rose missing nearly half of it and CJ Watson starting in his place. I bring that up to accentuate the Bulls win because of their system and Thibs, who says no matter the injuries "they have enough to win"

I don't think Rose is going to make a dramatic difference in the win column (I don't expect 60+ wins, more like 50-55), but he will make a difference in how far they go in the playoffs. But, we don't know if they are getting the MVP back or a compromised version.

Also, the Pacers are getting more than Granger back..they added Scola, Watson and Copeland to accentuate a rather poor bench last season. The Bulls are losing Nate and Marco B. while adding Rose and MDJr.

The Pacers also have major upside to look forward to from George and Hibbert, while Thibs has ridden Deng, Boozer and Noah as hard as he could the last several years and that is why tend to break down by the end of the season.

And your point about Hibbert actually favors the Pacers.
He found his confidence in the playoffs and looked great against NY and Chandler and the Heat. Assuming he reverts back to form and carries that confidence he will assure more regular season wins.

Big difference btw Nate Robinson & Derrick Rose... And whoever said MJD is a bleh shooter.......well he shot over 40% on 3's. MJD is the better player than Marco.

I'm not sure I said there isn't a big difference.

The question is does:

49 wins as a baseline
+Improved growth + confidence from the ECF
+Granger
+Scola
+Watson
+Copeland
+Non-horrible regular season from Hibbert
-DJ Augustin
-Gerald Green
-Tyler Hansbrough

still trump:

45 wins
+Rose
+MDJr
-Nate
-Marco
-Continued wear and tear of Deng, Boozer, Noah, Hinrich

I don't think in the case of Indiana and Chicago,confidence won't matter as both teams feel they can take out Miami.Whether they do it is another matter.

[Trader_Joe]

I don't think in the case of Indiana and Chicago,confidence won't matter as both teams feel they can take out Miami.Whether they do it is another matter.

I'm simply referring to the mental edge that Indy gained and the experience as well. This won't be useful against just Miami but in general. They will be riding a new wave on confidence because of their experience.

[HartfordWhalers]

ESPN consensus predictions: Warriors 50 wins, Denver 43.

Yeah, would be interesting to see who's closer. Our very own Jazzfan1971 or ESPN's panel of "Experts"
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/95599 ... -standings
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/95609 ... -standings

I like ESPN's... if only because they have the Pelican pick higher for the Sixers.

But more seriously I would side with ESPN in taking GSW over Denver.

[dice]

The question is does:

49 wins as a baseline
+Improved growth + confidence from the ECF
+Granger
+Scola
+Watson
+Copeland
+Non-horrible regular season from Hibbert
-DJ Augustin
-Gerald Green
-Tyler Hansbrough

still trump:

45 wins
+Rose
+MDJr
-Nate
-Marco
-Continued wear and tear of Deng, Boozer, Noah, Hinrich

for starters you're neglecting the emergence of jimmy butler, who did not start until the end of last year and himself alone might be a bigger factor than any of the pacer factors. secondly, you're better off using the 62 win bulls teams of the previous two years as a baseline for comparison

subtract brewer, korver, watson, asik
add butler, dunleavy, hinrich, nazr

basically that's a big upgrade at STARTING 2 guard and a big downgrade at BACKUP center

[Trader_Joe]

The question is does:

49 wins as a baseline
+Improved growth + confidence from the ECF
+Granger
+Scola
+Watson
+Copeland
+Non-horrible regular season from Hibbert
-DJ Augustin
-Gerald Green
-Tyler Hansbrough

still trump:

45 wins
+Rose
+MDJr
-Nate
-Marco
-Continued wear and tear of Deng, Boozer, Noah, Hinrich

for starters you're neglecting the emergence of jimmy butler, who did not start until the end of last year and himself alone might be a bigger factor than any of the pacer factors. secondly, you're better off using the 62 win bulls teams of the previous two years as a baseline for comparison

subtract brewer, korver, watson, asik
add butler, dunleavy, hinrich, nazr

basically that's a big upgrade at STARTING 2 guard and a big downgrade at BACKUP center

That was 3 seasons ago and a much different landscape in the East.
Last years team is much more comparable.