Kobe Bryant 1995-1998

[microfib4thewin]

A couple things.

Kobe was a 17 year old kid, entering the draft. The only power plays were made by Jerry West and Kobe's agent. Only because The Lakers wanted Kobe and not the other way around.

That power play is only possible if Kobe was willing to go along with it, and Kobe was happy to do it. The decision to not scare off other potential suitors was still in Kobe's hands.

On top of that, at best he was the 8th seed in the draft. Think about that for a moment.

No. He was #8 at the worst. He worked out for the Nets first, then the Lakers, and because West was so interested in Kobe his camp decided to tell everyone else that Kobe will not attend their workout, at least that's how the story went according to Tellem. Only the Nets and the Lakers knew what Kobe could be capable of.

To assert, that he declared for the draft and said I will only play for the lakers is moronic and lacks common sense. It didn't happen that way. Stop pretending like it did.

He certainly didn't say it outright, but he made it so difficult for bottom tier teams to pick him that it would be sensible to suspect that Kobe had intended things to work out the way it did. Aside from the lottery teams not getting to see Kobe play he was also a HS prospect in an era where teams are unsure if players with no college experience are worth the gamble. So despite the hype, Kobe is a mystery to rebuilding teams and they are afraid to take a chance with him in a relatively deep draft.

As for your insert about Kobe working out with many teams, if Kobe did work out with multiple teams then why were the Nets and the Lakers the only teams to express interest in drafting him? Was Calipari and West the only guys who saw potential in Kobe? That's a possibility but a rather difficult assumption to make.

Picky? That's what this discussion has turned into? Picky?.... and common sense? I wish it was being used here. Simply reading and comprehending the much public information on this topic will tell you the story. Not the wild narrative spin you keep making out of this.

There's enough information out there to suspect that Kobe played a large role in him coming to LA. There are several red flags if we are to believe that Kobe had no influence in the Lakers landing him.

1. It was so widely reported Calipari wanted to take Kobe in the draft that I don't think any proof needs to be presented. Yet despite his interest he ended up taking Kittles. Why did Calipari have a change of heart?

2. I don't think it's so farfetched to assume that Kobe was an interesting enough prospect that he would be picked by a lotto team, and he somehow managed to land on a team armed only with the 24th pick.

3. Kobe only working out with the Nets and the Lakers was an event that was disclosed by Am Tellem himself. If Kobe did work out with several other teams what does Tellem get by lying? And if we are to believe Tellem's narrative then how come a potential lottery prospect only worked out with two teams with one team so far down the draft that the chance of getting him is remote?

4. If West and Tellem told Kobe that they will try to scare the other teams off so he has a bigger chance to play for the Lakers and Kobe said "No, I will play for whoever takes me in the draft and I will prove my worth with my play", then no matter how many times Tellem and West spread rumors about Kobe not willing to play for a bad team Kobe can simply come out and say he will play for any team that drafted him, thus butchering any chance of Kobe going to the Lakers.

5. Rumors about Kobe only willing to play for LA did spread, and Kobe did not do anything to dispel that rumor.

Because of those discrepancies I have reasons to believe that Kobe was the one who decided to pave his road to LA. This isn't to say that he won't report to camp if another team drafted him, but he had the Lakers much higher up on his list than every other team and he wanted Tellem and West to do their best so he doesn't get drafted by anyone else.

[LLcoleJ]

How does it not make sense? Even if it didn't, it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what he wrote and your statement was completely unnecessary.

OT: At the end of the day it was ultimately down to Kobe's decision.

I understand the words, I don't understand the context. Social Experiment ? Victim? Do you care to explain it or are you just making completely unnecessary comments?

Please tell me how "This quote makes no sense" was a necessary comment.

the onus is on you clarify the social experiment ? Victim and explain who that is relevant to this discussion z

[kulo]

I understand the words, I don't understand the context. Social Experiment ? Victim? Do you care to explain it or are you just making completely unnecessary comments?

Please tell me how "This quote makes no sense" was a necessary comment.

the onus is on you clarify the social experiment ? Victim and explain who that is relevant to this discussion z

The onus is not on me and isn't on anyone, you trashed the comprehension in this thread. Yet, you are so naive that you seem to have to take his "Social Experiment" and "Victim" comments literally and completely out of proportion. It was obvious what his point was and if you cannot understand that then I have no business trying to argue with you.
FYI, I don't really care about what's being discussed as it is almost 20 years ago. Just found your reply quite Ironic.

[dockingsched]

If only Charlotte hadn't traded him...

They had no choice. Kobe said he wouldn't play for them. He always wanted to play for the Lakers.

hornets gm has said on record that kobe was never on their radar and they agreed to the trade prior to the draft without knowing who the lakers even wanted. when the 13th pick came up the lakers finally told them they wanted kobe. they would've never even considered taking kobe if it wasn't for the agreed upon trade.

[LLcoleJ]

A couple things.

Kobe was a 17 year old kid, entering the draft. The only power plays were made by Jerry West and Kobe's agent. Only because The Lakers wanted Kobe and not the other way around.

That power play is only possible if Kobe was willing to go along with it, and Kobe was happy to do it. The decision to not scare off other potential suitors was still in Kobe's hands.

On top of that, at best he was the 8th seed in the draft. Think about that for a moment.

No. He was #8 at the worst. He worked out for the Nets first, then the Lakers, and because West was so interested in Kobe his camp decided to tell everyone else that Kobe will not attend their workout, at least that's how the story went according to Tellem. Only the Nets and the Lakers knew what Kobe could be capable of.

To assert, that he declared for the draft and said I will only play for the lakers is moronic and lacks common sense. It didn't happen that way. Stop pretending like it did.

He certainly didn't say it outright, but he made it so difficult for bottom tier teams to pick him that it would be sensible to suspect that Kobe had intended things to work out the way it did. Aside from the lottery teams not getting to see Kobe play he was also a HS prospect in an era where teams are unsure if players with no college experience are worth the gamble. So despite the hype, Kobe is a mystery to rebuilding teams and they are afraid to take a chance with him in a relatively deep draft.

As for your insert about Kobe working out with many teams, if Kobe did work out with multiple teams then why were the Nets and the Lakers the only teams to express interest in drafting him? Was Calipari and West the only guys who saw potential in Kobe? That's a possibility but a rather difficult assumption to make.

Picky? That's what this discussion has turned into? Picky?.... and common sense? I wish it was being used here. Simply reading and comprehending the much public information on this topic will tell you the story. Not the wild narrative spin you keep making out of this.

There's enough information out there to suspect that Kobe played a large role in him coming to LA. There are several red flags if we are to believe that Kobe had no influence in the Lakers landing him.

1. It was so widely reported Calipari wanted to take Kobe in the draft that I don't think any proof needs to be presented. Yet despite his interest he ended up taking Kittles. Why did Calipari have a change of heart?

2. I don't think it's so farfetched to assume that Kobe was an interesting enough prospect that he would be picked by a lotto team, and he somehow managed to land on a team armed only with the 24th pick.

3. Kobe only working out with the Nets and the Lakers was an event that was disclosed by Am Tellem himself. If Kobe did work out with several other teams what does Tellem get by lying? And if we are to believe Tellem's narrative then how come a potential lottery prospect only worked out with two teams with one team so far down the draft that the chance of getting him is remote?

4. If West and Tellem told Kobe that they will try to scare the other teams off so he has a bigger chance to play for the Lakers and Kobe said "No, I will play for whoever takes me in the draft and I will prove my worth with my play", then no matter how many times Tellem and West spread rumors about Kobe not willing to play for a bad team Kobe can simply come out and say he will play for any team that drafted him, thus butchering any chance of Kobe going to the Lakers.

5. Rumors about Kobe only willing to play for LA did spread, and Kobe did not do anything to dispel that rumor.

Because of those discrepancies I have reasons to believe that Kobe was the one who decided to pave his road to LA. This isn't to say that he won't report to camp if another team drafted him, but he had the Lakers much higher up on his list than every other team and he wanted Tellem and West to do their best so he doesn't get drafted by anyone else.

I stopped reading at he was # 8 at worst. How is that true? He worked out for the Sizers, Clippers, Celtics etc.. they all could have taken him. And if were going to argue in hindsight they should have but he went 13th ( with a previous deal on the table and the hornets getting notified 5 minutes before the draft to pick him) with the ONLY interest at 8 Those are the fact and don't line up with your theory one bit.

[LLcoleJ]

The onus is not on me and isn't on anyone, you trashed the comprehension in this thread. Yet, you are so naive that you seem to have to take his "Social Experiment" and "Victim" comments literally and completely out of proportion. It was obvious what his point was and if you cannot understand that then I have no business trying to argue with you.
FYI, I don't really care about what's being discussed as it is almost 20 years ago. Just found your reply quite Ironic.

What are you talking about man? How on earth is " social experiment' and " victim" relevant to this discussion? Thus the comment is that portion didn't make sense to respond too. Explain the comment or move on.

[Chronz]

People confuse Kobes draft scheme, it wasn't that he wasn't willing to go anywhere else but LA, its that he was only willing to go to big markets. He would have LOVED going #1 overall, Philly wasn't having it tho. And it wasn't just Kobe's agent and West doing it, his family played a role as well. Lakers were 1 of like 3 teams he was willing to go to.

[Chronz]

I stopped reading at he was # 8 at worst. How is that true? He worked out for the Sizers, Clippers, Celtics etc.. they all could have taken him. And if were going to argue in hindsight they should have but he went 13th ( with a previous deal on the table and the hornets getting notified 5 minutes before the draft to pick him) with the ONLY interest at 8 Those are the fact and don't line up with your theory one bit.

He still guided his destiny from day 1.

[microfib4thewin]

I stopped reading at he was # 8 at worst. How is that true? He worked out for the Sizers, Clippers, Celtics etc.. they all could have taken him. And if were going to argue in hindsight they should have but he went 13th ( with a previous deal on the table and the hornets getting notified 5 minutes before the draft to pick him) with the ONLY interest at 8 Those are the fact and don't line up with your theory one bit.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

One of Tellem's most masterful manipulations was his circumvention of the '96 NBA draft to maneuver the 18-year-old Bryant to the Lakers. "Basically, I kept teams from picking Kobe by not giving their coaches access to him," says Tellem, who learned the backstage moves of NBA front offices during six years as general counsel for the LA. Clippers, from 1983 to '89. "I knew teams would be reluctant to take a chance on a high schooler without first talking to him and working him out." ( Bryant was picked 13th by Charlotte and immediately traded to the Lakers.)

Unless you call tell me why Kobe's agent would lie about his pre-draft workouts I have no reason to believe what you said. The Kobe-Calipari story has Kobe only working out with two teams, the Nets then the Lakers, and I have not read anything that contradicts it. Kobe did not naturally fall to #13, he was the main actor who orchestrated an act that scared off bottom tier teams from picking him.

[Mazter]

Well, it was also said that Kobe appeared (uninvited) at the workout of Dontae Jones, with Jerry West being present, and was given a chance. West recognised Kobe's potential and orchestrated the deal which would bring Divac to Charlotte for Kobe. This would free the space for an inmediate star in Shaq and they would have a (below the radar) potential superstar in Kobe. According to Bass he was well aware who to pick and not told shortly before. Kobe inmediately cancelled his tryout with the Kings and refused any invitation from the Hornets for a workout. Seems like his mind was made up. Problem was, he already had a workout with the Nets who were also impressed and had 8th pick before the Hornets 13th. Well, West, Kobe and his agent worked their magic and Nets pulled back from picking Kobe.

Problems started after draft day when Vlade refused the move to Charlotte, because his wife was dreaming of an acting career. Divac told the Hornets he rather retire than signing for the Hornets. Bass who wasn't stupid, seeing all the effort the Lakers were doing, smelled a rat and opted to check out his "merchandise". At least, they tried to, Kobe still refused to show a glimpse of his potential to the Hornets, sending his agent instead to tell them he wouldn't play for a small market team like the Hornets. In the end, Divac was persuaded to play in Hornets, living temporarily in Charlotte during the season, leaving his family in LA.

It doesn't seem like Kobe is completely innocent in this one. He has his right to chase his dream to play for the Lakers (I mean, which Philadelphia kid doesn't dream of playing for the Lakers), but firstly bursting in uninvited and than cancelling every one else out. Even the one you already worked out with. He seemed pretty desperate to hide behind Shaq's back and take a piggyback ride to his first ring. Some kind of hero he is, not very GOAT like. And it was easy for him and his agent to bluf. It wasn't just Bryant on the line for the Lakers, because without the Kobe deal O'Neal would likely go bye bye for the Lakers.

[TruSkool]

kobe's hype was probably nothing compared to lebrons, mostly due to the social networking

[Jellybeans824]

[LLcoleJ]

[

Unless you call tell me why Kobe's agent would lie about his pre-draft workouts I have no reason to believe what you said. The Kobe-Calipari story has Kobe only working out with two teams, the Nets then the Lakers, and I have not read anything that contradicts it. Kobe did not naturally fall to #13, he was the main actor who orchestrated an act that scared off bottom tier teams from picking him.

Well..




Then there is this..

Twice he worked out for Clippers’ GM Elgin Baylor … and coach Bill Fitch. After the second, the two dream weavers invited Bryant to lunch.
“They told me it was the two best workouts they’d ever seen,” he said. “That’s it, I figured, I was going be a Clipper and play in L.A. I was pumped!”
Before Bryant had finished his fantasy, his magic carpet ride crashed. Out of nowhere, Baylor and Fitch flipped the switch.
“Your skill level is off the charts. Your athleticism is exceptional. And your energy and enthusiasm are remarkable,” they gushed. “But we can’t draft you.”
Huh? What! Why not?
“Because people out here won’t think we’re serious if we draft a high school kid at No. 7.

but whatever.

[Canada_7]

Dude has a major baby face. Doesn't look much different than when he was a high schooler.

[CodyB_]

It doesn't seem like Kobe is completely innocent in this one. He has his right to chase his dream to play for the Lakers (I mean, which Philadelphia kid doesn't dream of playing for the Lakers), but firstly bursting in uninvited and than cancelling every one else out. Even the one you already worked out with. He seemed pretty desperate to hide behind Shaq's back and take a piggyback ride to his first ring. Some kind of hero he is, not very GOAT like. And it was easy for him and his agent to bluf. It wasn't just Bryant on the line for the Lakers, because without the Kobe deal O'Neal would likely go bye bye for the Lakers.

WTF?

1996 - The league belonged to Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Yeah you might have had the Sonics and Jazz as pretenders, but the Lakers were considered young and talented but largely unproven. They would be very much the equivalent of the Rockets going into this season, or the Thunder before the '10-11 season. Good but not contenders.

If Kobe could foresee that Laker team becoming a championship contender, then he is a remarkable evaluator of talent.

[semi-sentient]

There's no way to even know if Kobe knew about West targeting Shaq, so that's pure speculation.

If I were West then I'd probably make that a selling point to ensure that Kobe does his part in ensuring teams pass up on him, but I suspect that even if Kobe didn't know about Shaq he'd be excited about joining the Lakers. Who wouldn't be?

[Mazter]

There's no way to even know if Kobe knew about West targeting Shaq, so that's pure speculation.

If I were West then I'd probably make that a selling point to ensure that Kobe does his part in ensuring teams pass up on him, but I suspect that even if Kobe didn't know about Shaq he'd be excited about joining the Lakers. Who wouldn't be?

Please man, read the Bass story again. One reason for Bass to accept the Kobe-Divac deal was to rid the East of O'Neal. He knew they were clearing cap space to make O'Neal an offer. Now if Bass knew predraft, I'm pretty sure Kobe's agent knew, and therefore also Kobe knew. And like you said, if you were West, you would make it a selling point, I would do too, and West probably did.

Now since this is only an assumption, please read the following SI-article: (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1008323/1/index.htm)
It is dated July 1, 1996. That's right, 1 week after the draft and 1 week before the Divac-Bryant trade. Now, if SI knew, Bryant would have been pretty stupid, deaf and blind, not knowing the Lakers were aiming for O'Neal. In fact, being the only franchise aiming for him and Orlando not sure whether they would match a top dollar deal, it was already pretty much a done deal. But hey, whatever makes you happy.

[LakerLegend]

Ok...this really doesn't need all this analysis. Kobe would have played for whoever drafted him...until West saw his workout and conspired with his agent to make sure he ended up in LA.


...and the beginning of this video is really all you need to know how hyped Kobe was by his 2nd year. Winning the dunk contest his rookie year, being voted into the ASG.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju_rG3DtBnM[/youtube]

[LLcoleJ]

How can you take someone serious when he can't pronounce or say the name of the greatest owner in sports?

[Mazter]

WTF?

1996 - The league belonged to Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Yeah you might have had the Sonics and Jazz as pretenders, but the Lakers were considered young and talented but largely unproven. They would be very much the equivalent of the Rockets going into this season, or the Thunder before the '10-11 season. Good but not contenders.

If Kobe could foresee that Laker team becoming a championship contender, then he is a remarkable evaluator of talent.

The league belonged to a 33-year old Jordan who was not going to play forever on a top level. The Lakers were a 53-29 team about to land the biggest free agent at the time and the man who made the Magic a 60-win franchise. And Kobe, well Kobe being Kobe would probably think in a year of 3-4 he would be Jordan's succesor playing with the most dominant big man (with Robinson, Ewing and Olajuwon well in their thirties at that time) at his side for one of the most storied franchises in the NBA. A

It is nothing remarkable, it would be pretty common sense for him to think that. Besides, it probably wasn't Kobe thinking. It would be West sweetining him for the future. He could learn for a couple of years in the shadow of Shaq, and be the future face of the franchise when he reached top level and Shaq starting to decline.