Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[Liverbird]

Yup. Memphis has done really well this summer.

Regarding Minnesota - they paid too much (and for too long in Martin's case) for each of their FA signings IMO. I don't think they'll resign Williams and Shabazz is too unpredictable. They'll really struggle defensively so they need Dieng to produce. Even the second unit seems poor defensively. Ariza would be perfect for them

[nate33]

Somewhere on the boards, I did a post about Love's teammates. His teammates have been epic bad -- complete dreck. This past season, Minnesota finally had some good players, but then Love got hurt.

Blaming a guy as productive as Love for his team not winning doesn't make sense to me. The guy has been a terrific player, but it's a team game. His franchise has had a garbage roster throughout his career. The logical conclusion to me is not that a team can't win with Love, but rather that a team can't win with one terrific player and scrubs.

And, the year before Rubio and Pekovic were both injured.

I didn't mean to suggest that Love is an empty stat loser. But I do think that Love isn't quite as good as his numbers. He's a bad man defender and a useless help defender. The offensive numbers and the rebounding are terrific though.

It's mostly an issue of chemistry. There are decreasing returns for each additional good offensive player added to the roster because there is only one basketball. They have 3 real good offensive players in Love, Pekovic and Kevin Martin. They also have a few more solid offensive role players like Budinger, Barea and (hopefully) Derrick Williams. I think they'd be better off to swap a few of those solid offensive players for players who are roughly equivalent overall, but specialize more on the defensive side. They'd be better off with Afflalo instead of Martin, for example.

[hands11]

Nice write-up of Orlando there. All the stats guys who don't watch games LOVE Vucevic, and he is a good player, But I'm not sure there's a big man in the NBA with worse feet on defense. So, when Orlando finishes with maybe 30 wins, I'm sure they'll come up with a bunch of other reasons.

Add to that he still isn't used to the speed of the NBA game and the year before he used to bring his hands down on the offensive player -- causing him to foul at a high rate as well. Now he is more of a torro defender that tries to get defensive rebounds. But he is never going to be a "good" defender. But... he has certainly made more progress that Vesely or Singleton (drafted in the same year).

My real question with Orlando is - will they finish low enough to get a top 3 pick (or have a shot) and will their youngsters make good progress like last year.

Last year they won 20 games and only added Victor Oladipo - do you think they could jump to 30 wins?

I have them 5th worse in the conference. That could be around 30 wins.

[dckingsfan]

I have them 3rd worst (to Charlotte and Philly) in the conference. I think they are just too young not to lose a bunch of close games. It will be interesting to watch.

[Kanyewest]

What do you guys think about Larry Sanders getting 4 years for 44 million?

[Nivek]

Solid move by Milwaukee. Sanders is probably worth a little more than that (my salary formula pegs him at $12.2 million), but the deal includes incentives that could add another $4 million. Seems like a fair deal all the way around.

[Dat2U]

Solid move by Milwaukee. Sanders is probably worth a little more than that (my salary formula pegs him at $12.2 million), but the deal includes incentives that could add another $4 million. Seems like a fair deal all the way around.

Yep, outside of the peculiar O.J. Mayo & Zaza Pachulia signings, I think the Bucks have had a decent offseason. They also kept a rock solid player in Ilyasova, let Monta Have-it-all in Dallas and told Brandon Jennings to kick rocks. The real slick move however was getting Brandon Knight for Jennings. Not because Knight is any good, but he's the perfect "young PG with upside" to lead the tank. He was intriguing & young enough to have Kohl sign off on the deal and not force the front office to find a starting caliber PG, but he's just terrible enough to stink up the court and garner plenty of lottery balls.

[pancakes3]

Question about incentives - do they count towards the cap?

[LyricalRico]

Question about incentives - do they count towards the cap?

Hmmm...maybe if they are considered "likely"?

Just finished a late lunch (huge burger) and too lazy to look it up. I can barely type at this point. LOL

[Nivek]

Question about incentives - do they count towards the cap?

Likely to be earned incentives count towards the cap, unlikely incentives do not. I think the difference is merely whether or not the player has previously achieved whatever criteria qualifies him for the bonus. So, a $500k bonus to Wall for making the All-Star team would be classified as "unlikely" because he hasn't done it yet.

[pancakes3]

Hrm... I'm just spitballing here but what about ambiguous language that states "Base contract of $3 million/year and then $200k for every ppg John Wall scores"

What's likely then? The 18.5 ppg that Wall put up last season, which results in 13 mil/year? Then if he overshoots that, it becomes the new likely?

[closg00]

What do you guys think about Larry Sanders getting 4 years for 44 million?

Just goes to show, teams don't always have to over-pay to keep core players. Bargain deal.

[Upper Decker]

Way to strike early by Milwaukee. I have no doubt's he get several max offers this coming off-season as an RFA. I'm not completely certain how many teams have max money next year, but I want to say it's double digits. There were only going to be so many players worth that kind of coin and Sanders was as good as any in my book. Great defender, good rebounder, athletic-big who can finish, cares about the game. Everyone pimps Detroits front line like it's the next best thing (don't get me wrong they should be good), but the mix Milwaukee has of Henson, Sanders, and Illyasova has potential to be better than Detroits front line.

[stevemcqueen1]

Sanders at 11 million is fair value. Milwaukee didn't overpay. He's a tremendous weak side helper and rim protector and he rebounds. He's better than Deandre Jordan for sure.

I seriously doubt he'd get max offers though. He can't score and he's not a big body. That's how you get paid. Pekovic: not a great defender, but a huge huge body with offensive skills.

And those things are super valuable BTW. Marc Gasol and Dwight Howard for example. You need someone that can be a physical space eater to control the paint against powerful bigs. And it's always nice when your big is a threat on offense.

Milwaukee has a good mix of bigs, but none of them have any bulk or strength. The thing that makes Detroit's front line so intimidating is that Josh Smith is the small, shrimpy one in comparison. Monroe and Drummond are huge. Drummond is going to keep getting stronger for years too.

Plus Monroe and Smith can score.

I'd personally rather have Monroe and Drummond than Henson and Sanders. The rebounding, size, defense, and offense is all there between those two.

If Sanders developed a jumper with some range like Ibaka did, he'd become a much more valuable player though.

I think Milwaukee's front court is not optimally balanced because of its lack of size and interior scoring ability. Henson and Sanders are both nice players, but there is some redundancy there. Henson is probably going to be the better offensive player, but choosing him over Sanders right now is a leap of faith. If I were them, I'd consider dealing one of the two when their value hit a peak. I bet they could get something good back in return.

[dckingsfan]

Bobcat's question... having a debate with a friend...

He thinks the Bobcats will run some (Walker/Sessions), MKG, Zeller, Biyombo, Jefferson part of the time.

Do you think Zeller could guard the SF position - I know he looked extremely athletic in SL.

[dckingsfan]

Charlotte

Current Team – Along with Orlando, the worst team in the League.

Point Guard: Kemba Walker is a bright spot. The PG position is locked down. Ramon Sessions is a very capable backup.

Shooting Guard: What a mess… Ben Gordon was supposed to be a consummate pro and he turned out to be a divisive force. Gerald Henderson has shown flashes of solid. He is off the payroll next season so MJ will have to make a tough choice on his salary.

Small Forward: MKG struggled this season. Really the only way to look at it. Jeff Taylor was his principal backup and will be back next year.

Power Forward/C: Charlotte has a lot of bigs. Thomas, Biyombo, and Haywood are under contract for next year. Diop, McRoberts and Mullens come off the payroll. The question is who does MJ keep. Biyombo is best suited as a PF. But that would leave Haywood as the starting C. MJ needs to sort this out. Thomas and Haywood likely will not play meaningful minutes next season.

Coach: None

Draft Picks – With the second pick in the draft can you say SG?

Cap Space: $41M in cap space allocated. My guess is that Charlotte will spend much of this on bring back McRoberts and Mullens and possibly adding a backup SG.

I just don't see MJ getting it done... back to the lottery

Looks like MJ is going after ej's favorite coach - Nate McMillan

They might also be looking to go cheap... Kelvin Sampson

Clifford becomes the sixth known candidate to fill the opening created when the Bobcats fired Mike Dunlap last month. The others: Former Phoenix Suns coach Alvin Gentry and four assistants: Nate Tibbetts (Cleveland), Kelvin Sampson (Houston), Jeff Hornacek (Utah) and Elston Turner (most recently with the Suns). From the Charlotte Observer

End up with the #4 pick - bad luck MJ... then again, they really care about the '14 draft. Looking for SG and bigs.

Steve Clifford is their new head coach.

No. 4 C Cody Zeller

They are still looking for a C next to Bismack. It is going to be Zeller/Haywood for a few years to come and Bismack/Thomas (who won't play). I am going to assume that they will not do too much in the FA market so that they are ready for next year.

That would be the only rational thing to do unless MJ is running your team.

Sign Jefferson - probably overpaid. Resign Henderson, McRoberts and Pargo.

PG: Kemba Walker, Ramon Sessions, Jannero Pargo (pretty solid rotation)
SG: Gerald Henderson, Ben Gordon (Yuck)
SF: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Jeffery Taylor
PF: Bismack Biyombo, Cody Zeller, Josh McRoberts, Jeff Adrien
C: Al Jefferson, Brendan Haywood

[payitforward]

...MKG struggled this season. Really the only way to look at it.

Actually, I thought he had quite a good rookie season. What do you have in mind, saying he "struggled"?

[hands11]

...MKG struggled this season. Really the only way to look at it.

Actually, I thought he had quite a good rookie season. What do you have in mind, saying he "struggled"?

Yeah, he didn't have a bad year. But SFs need to be able to shoot. But he is a good defender so that buys him some extra time getting there.

But year 4, he should be a pretty interesting player if he keeps putting in the work, which you know he will.

Beal was the right pick to go with Wall because he opens up the court. But MKG should end up a solid player.

Cat might have been better off going Beal. Then if they got Zeller this year and went into next looking for a SF, they would have set them up nicely.

But I'm not complaining they passed on Beal. That was a close call.

Actually, that team is slowly coming together.

Kembra/Sessions/Pargo
Henderson/Gordon
MKG/Jeffery Taylor
Zeller/Josh McRoberts/Bismack
Al Jefferson/Bismack/Haywood

Still a little to young to get much done but they should gel come this year. Team need more vet leadership then just Haywood and Al. Gordon and Pargo isn't really getting it done. They are getting there.

[pancakes3]

Actually, that team is slowly coming together.

Kembra/Sessions/Pargo
Henderson/Gordon
MKG/Jeffery Taylor
Zeller/Josh McRoberts
Al Jefferson/Bismack /Haywood

Playing loose and fast with the term "coming together". If everyone on that squad reaches their potential, it's still not as good as the mid-decade Wizards with GilTawn HayButler. It just lacks talent plain and simple. It's Indy without Paul George and half of Roy Hibbert. It's just a squad where every player in every position is in the 15th-20th best at their position. Very meh.

[dckingsfan]

...MKG struggled this season. Really the only way to look at it.

Actually, I thought he had quite a good rookie season. What do you have in mind, saying he "struggled"?

He looked lost on the offensive end - but he looked quite good on the defensive end - and your are right, for a rookie he was just fine.

Do you think he could guard SGs?