Is Kobe the greatest Laker ever?

[ROballer]

From an outsider and someone that was born in the 90's, I have to say Magic

I just can't say Kobe after how he shipped Shaq out of town or how he constantly bashed and threw his teammates under the bus and demanding trades

And that's the main reason Magic>Kobe ,no?

[JrueHK]

From an outsider and someone that was born in the 90's, I have to say Magic

I just can't say Kobe after how he shipped Shaq out of town or how he constantly bashed and threw his teammates under the bus and demanding trades

And that's the main reason Magic>Kobe ,no?

Well Magic has the slight edge in talent and career accomplishment as well

[Slava]

From an outsider and someone that was born in the 90's, I have to say Magic

I just can't say Kobe after how he shipped Shaq out of town or how he constantly bashed and threw his teammates under the bus and demanding trades

Except Magic got a coach fired and demanded a trade as well. Its cute how you say you were born in the 90s and then answer with Magic, having never watched him play.

[GeorgeDillion]

From an outsider and someone that was born in the 90's, I have to say Magic

I just can't say Kobe after how he shipped Shaq out of town or how he constantly bashed and threw his teammates under the bus and demanding trades

Except Magic got a coach fired and demanded a trade as well. Its cute how you say you were born in the 90s and then answer with Magic, having never watched him play.

I was on another site the other day and a notorious Kobe hater that happens to be a Rockets fan brought up this same Anti-Kobe argument. I proceeded to throw Hakeem under the bus for doing the same things, some people don't understand sports stars are not perfect most of the things Kobe is shamed for doing a ton of these other sacred cows have done.

I wouldn't even classify myself as a Kobe defender but sometimes the bashing gets out of hand.

[EArl]

From an outsider and someone that was born in the 90's, I have to say Magic

I just can't say Kobe after how he shipped Shaq out of town or how he constantly bashed and threw his teammates under the bus and demanding trades

You were born in the 90's and said you saw Magic play. <Insert Reggie Miller are you kidding me>
I was born in 89 and I didnt watch Magic play. Unless you were one or two when you started playing basketball this doesn't make much sense.

[JrueHK]

From an outsider and someone that was born in the 90's, I have to say Magic

I just can't say Kobe after how he shipped Shaq out of town or how he constantly bashed and threw his teammates under the bus and demanding trades

You were born in the 90's and said you saw Magic play. <Insert Reggie Miller are you kidding me>
I was born in 89 and I didnt watch Magic play. Unless you were one or two when you started playing basketball this doesn't make much sense.

Did I ever say that I saw them live?

There are tons of clips on youtube of his famous games, highlights, etc
Same with MJ, never really watched them live but I still saw ton of games on youtube...

[Kilroy]

I'm really torn on this thread... Part of me want's to educate people who never saw Magic and I feel are clinging to the declining Kobe...
And part of me thinks it's not worth arguing about and really pities those who never got to experience that era...
I've really enjoyed Kobe, but part of me thinks the MJ/Kobe eras were some of the worst for Basketball, because it's spawned generations of basketball fans/players that only really care about baskets and individual performance... Hell, there's a large number of NBA fans that literally live their lives from one dunk to the next, never really paying attention to anything else...

Magic could do pretty much everything at an all star level in the NBA, the numbers seem to bear that out... But he focused most on making his whole team work like a machine... It truly was amazing to watch... Especially with Chic calling the games...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/leaders_career.html

[ak7]

To say Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time, in turn would have to say he ranks higher than Magic Johnson on the all-time greats list. Are some of you guys willing to accept that?

I am only partial to doing so, if I am being logical. Though the career long Kobe fan in me would do it 10 out of 10 times.

[Slava]

Just for the record I believe Magic is the greatest Lakers player of all time and Jerry West is the greatest Laker of all time in terms of overall contribution to the franchise but you do not have to throw Kobe under the bus like some of the dim wits in this thread seem to be doing just to prop the others up.

Magic's effect on a team;s offense is well categorized in every advanced stat that has been done and he's likely the greatest overall offensive player of all time as well.

[EArl]

We still have time until the season starts. You guys want to make a Lakers board all time list and have it for historical reference?
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1123731

I'm willing to set it up.
Let me know.

[ClintonDemocrat]

From an outsider and someone that was born in the 90's, I have to say Magic

I just can't say Kobe after how he shipped Shaq out of town or how he constantly bashed and threw his teammates under the bus and demanding trades

Except Magic got a coach fired and demanded a trade as well. Its cute how you say you were born in the 90s and then answer with Magic, having never watched him play.

Not true, bro. Buss was going to fire Westhead before any public tiff he had with Magic. He used Magic as a scapegoat. Westhead wasn't his choice and he wasn't hired to be head coach. Buss wasn't even a believer in Riley for that position in the beginning. Buss didn't want him for the same reason Magic didn't want him, as well as others on the team such as Coop, who said there was a mutiny brewing -- PW created a halfcourt offense for Kareem after they got dumped in the 1st round the prior year to a slow down team. Only fan of it was Kareem. Chick (at that time an assistant GM, meaning he had a voice in the pros/cons arguments) didn't even stand up for Westhead in the press after the decision was made. It would also be disingenuous to sit here and pretend Dr. Buss never made snap judgments and decisions in his day. He was known for it from time to time.

Magic didn't demand a trade. That's exaggerated, mightily. No where close to the Kobe situation, which was a grudge he held onto for months. Magic made a comment saying he'd play anywhere and it died that same night he said it and he knew it was a mistake. Kobe's klaim was kalculated and he meant it to the point that the FO sent out feelers for interest. He wouldn't even immediately retract that statement after the FO acquired Gasol.

Using that Magic thing as a match to what Kobe did is exaggerated to the hilt. You don't even have to say what Kobe did was unjustified. Maybe you can argue that Kobe was justified because his prime was being wasted, but it doesn't make the comparison valid, unless the next guy who foolishly says that in the heat of the moment is forever marked as a guy who DEMANDED(!) to be traded.

[ClintonDemocrat]

I was on another site the other day

DILLON! What's with this effing tie business? Wassa matta? CIA gotchu pushing too many penceels?

[ClintonDemocrat]

When did the " he doesnt make anyone better" augment start?

Mm. Probably early on. Shaq years. Shaq called him Show-be. Got the rep for doing things like trying to dribble thru 2 players and getting stripped. Harris would yank him for those plays in the blink of an eye. Jackson came in and still yelled in his face for non-triangle plays. Didn't take long for unnamed sources to start talking to the press and then the storyline quickly gained traction.

Honestly, that comparison is bad too. You're essentially comparing him with a guy who exemplifies the very notion of what that term means in most fans' heads. Magic was a born passer/helper type. One of his Jr High teachers told a story about him literally standing up and quieting down an unruly class for her on her first day so she could begin. Kobe can do the facilitation stuff, but it doesn't come naturally to him, not his basic instinct (Sharon Stone's curlies).

[Kilroy]

From an outsider and someone that was born in the 90's, I have to say Magic

I just can't say Kobe after how he shipped Shaq out of town or how he constantly bashed and threw his teammates under the bus and demanding trades

Except Magic got a coach fired and demanded a trade as well. Its cute how you say you were born in the 90s and then answer with Magic, having never watched him play.

Not true, bro. Buss was going to fire Westhead before any public tiff he had with Magic. He used Magic as a scapegoat. Westhead wasn't his choice and he wasn't hired to be head coach. Buss wasn't even a believer in Riley for that position in the beginning. Buss didn't want him for the same reason Magic didn't want him, as well as others on the team such as Coop, who said there was a mutiny brewing -- PW created a halfcourt offense for Kareem after they got dumped in the 1st round the prior year to a slow down team. Only fan of it was Kareem. Chick (at that time an assistant GM, meaning he had a voice in the pros/cons arguments) didn't even stand up for Westhead in the press after the decision was made. It would also be disingenuous to sit here and pretend Dr. Buss never made snap judgments and decisions in his day. He was known for it from time to time.

Magic didn't demand a trade. That's exaggerated, mightily. No where close to the Kobe situation, which was a grudge he held onto for months. Magic made a comment saying he'd play anywhere and it died that same night he said it and he knew it was a mistake. Kobe's klaim was kalculated and he meant it to the point that the FO sent out feelers for interest. He wouldn't even immediately retract that statement after the FO acquired Gasol.

Using that Magic thing as a match to what Kobe did is exaggerated to the hilt. You don't even have to say what Kobe did was unjustified. Maybe you can argue that Kobe was justified because his prime was being wasted, but it doesn't make the comparison valid, unless the next guy who foolishly says that in the heat of the moment is forever marked as a guy who DEMANDED(!) to be traded.

In all honesty, and as much as I'm not a Clinton Democrat fan, this is how I remembered it too... We were all demanding a coaching change at that point too...

[ClintonDemocrat]

In all honesty, and as much as I'm not a Clinton Democrat fan, this is how I remembered it too... We were all demanding a coaching change at that point too...

Historical accuracy > being bros.

[Anklebreaker702]

I'm probably one of the bigger Kobe homers in our tight group here and I say no! Magic is and always will be.

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