Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[Nivek]

"Highly motivated" -- to do what?

[keynote]

details, details.

[payitforward]

...If you don't believe in yourself, no one else will.

I believe in you Hands. And I'm not alone. Holger Getswindedor believes in you too. We're all in for you man. Holding nothing back!

[nuposse04]

"Highly motivated" -- to do what?

elitely vegetate on the bench

No but really I hope he finds some **** courage this season.

[Ruzious]

"Highly motivated" -- to do what?

elitely vegetate on the bench

No but really I hope he finds some **** courage this season.

For that, he's got to see the Wizard... of Oz.

[nuposse04]

"Highly motivated" -- to do what?

elitely vegetate on the bench

No but really I hope he finds some **** courage this season.

For that, he's got to see the Wizard... of Oz.

Seraphin needs some brains....

[stevemcqueen1]

This feels like the kind of year where one of Vesely, Seraphin, or Singleton shocks the fan base with the positive strides they make. My bet is on Seraphin. Going into his fourth season, the first year where bigs typically become a finished product. Shown flashes of definite offensive skill in the past. Should get minutes as the only true big man backup on the team with injuries to Nene and Okafor likely at some point.

It'd be nice if Vesely kept playing well though, carried it into the season. His defensive potential has always been huge and we could certainly use a seven footer that can cover PnRs and play passing lanes and protect the rim.

[hands11]

What a culture shock total mind Fck Ves has gone through.

He was literally the man over there.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO6Af-aBGkU[/youtube]

Then his first year here was pretty fun with lots of Wall and Ves. Wall even seems to enjoy it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyvz4kMNiTo&list=TLesPl_o3aUVU[/youtube]

Then last year smacked him him the face. Pargo, Price, Mack, No Wall and bench splinter.

What a mind Fck.

[dangermouse]

I do like Ves, i hope he does improve some this year. He's working out, I don't think he is going to add too much weight on that frame, but he should be getting stronger. He's never going to be a bully like Seraphin, but if he gets strong enough just so that he can maintain position against the average PF, instead of getting out-muscled by just about anyone.

If you look at a guy like Shawn Kemp, he was rail thin.... well, earlier in his career anyway. He had superhuman athleticism and hops, more than Ves. But there are similarities, both could push the ball on the break, as hands hgihlight video shows. Both are really thin and lanky. Kemp managed to maintain position against most guys when he was being bumped around down low though. I think that came from core strength, but also from pure effort and a fighting attitude.

Maybe Jan should take a MMA class or two. If he has built upon his core strength this offseason, and comes with a real desire not to get bullied and pushed around, to grab rebounds and loose balls not by jumping over his guy but by boxing out hard, I think Jan could actually look like an NBA player.

[Ruzious]

God, I am so sick and tired of reading excuses for Vesely. He stunk because he lacks skills, didn't work effectively to improve them, and came to camp in lousy shape. He stunk because he sucked.

For whatever reasons of his own... he failed to do what he needed to do. A lot of people don't get what working hard means. They figure if I'm in the gym for 2 hours, that means I'm working hard - even if they're standing around most of the time joking with their friends - barely working up a sweat - and when they do actually work; they're using weights that people in real shape would laugh at. And workout video's showing him with a little sweat are a sad joke. And if that was the case last offseason, why is that different this offseason? Until we see results, there's no reason to believe he's changed. It's as simple as working smart and hard, but you have to actually do it.

[hands11]

I do like Ves, i hope he does improve some this year. He's working out, I don't think he is going to add too much weight on that frame, but he should be getting stronger. He's never going to be a bully like Seraphin, but if he gets strong enough just so that he can maintain position against the average PF, instead of getting out-muscled by just about anyone.

If you look at a guy like Shawn Kemp, he was rail thin.... well, earlier in his career anyway. He had superhuman athleticism and hops, more than Ves. But there are similarities, both could push the ball on the break, as hands hgihlight video shows. Both are really thin and lanky. Kemp managed to maintain position against most guys when he was being bumped around down low though. I think that came from core strength, but also from pure effort and a fighting attitude.

Maybe Jan should take a MMA class or two. If he has built upon his core strength this offseason, and comes with a real desire not to get bullied and pushed around, to grab rebounds and loose balls not by jumping over his guy but by boxing out hard, I think Jan could actually look like an NBA player.

Yeah, he wasn't a post player. He was a SF. He ran and dunked mostly. Very few NBA players have made a career doing just that.

I'm hoping the limited, to no time, playing with Wall last year ends up being a good thing. If nothing else, it forced him to see the needs to be able to do a more than run, dunk, pass and deflect passes. Hey, the game he had last year brought down the house overseas. They loved his game.

His first year, he was able to get away with doing his cut to the basket for a dunk thing because Wall would find him. Last year, it was more getting points on put backs which is harder. Knowing how to use your butt to establish and hold space isn't something he did overseas.

I still see him and Kevin as interesting prospects that with the right training and practice could stick around in the NBA. By all accounts, Kevin has been putting in a lot of work in DC. Ves is also putting in more work this off season. They have a couple more months to make progress, then we will see.

Both can contribute to the team this year. Just gotta continue to put in the work this summer and address as much as they can. Kevin is in much better shape now then he had been. Hopefully we finally get to see Beast Mode Kevin.

For Ves, I think it pretty simple. He needs to learn to use him butt to establish space and he need to develop a shot he has confidence in. And since both are doable, I'm still holding out some hope for him. Right now, he just needs to establish himself as a reliable rotation player. That will buy him the time needs to continue to develop and build confidence.

I was fun to watch that second video where Wall was hitting him for all those open dunks though.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

God, I am so sick and tired of reading excuses for Vesely. He stunk because he lacks skills, didn't work effectively to improve them, and came to camp in lousy shape. He stunk because he sucked.

For whatever reasons of his own... he failed to do what he needed to do. A lot of people don't get what working hard means. They figure if I'm in the gym for 2 hours, that means I'm working hard - even if they're standing around most of the time joking with their friends - barely working up a sweat - and when they do actually work; they're using weights that people in real shape would laugh at. And workout video's showing him with a little sweat are a sad joke. And if that was the case last offseason, why is that different this offseason? Until we see results, there's no reason to believe he's changed. It's as simple as working smart and hard, but you have to actually do it.

Vesely is a thin guy. If he was out of shape, I bet it had something to do with his achilles injury.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/the ... price.html

How much did the Achilles injury slow you down in your 2012 offseason workouts?

Quite a bit. It happened to me at the end of the 2012 Summer League, and I had stop working out for three weeks in August. I could have worked out more if I was healthy.

Vesely is a skilled dunker who moves well off the ball. He's unselfish and will pass. He doesn't jack shots. He does set picks. He is a good basketball player--as is anyone in the NBA IMO.

I'm not making excuses. I'm dealing in facts. I'm uncovering truth the best way I can. If you hate Vesely fine. I couldn't stand Wall's game for where he was drafted. Took me years ...

Vesely isn't a lost cause at all. Signs point to a very dramatic turnaround IMO.

[Dat2U]

I think there's a better chance Vesely ends up back in Europe in 2014-15 as a Nikoloz Tskitishvilli level bust than him becoming a useful NBA player. It's too easy for him to make excuses and go into a shell than fight through all the negativity. As soon as things get tough, I expect him to fold. I think he's a lot like Kwame in that way. The whole thing about not wanting to get fouled so he doesn't have to shoot free throws... just ugh!

[Higga]

The whole thing about not wanting to get fouled so he doesn't have to shoot free throws... just ugh!

I can't believe that. What a **** pussy.

[Nivek]

I think there's a better chance Vesely ends up back in Europe in 2014-15 as a Nikoloz Tskitishvilli level bust than him becoming a useful NBA player. It's too easy for him to make excuses and go into a shell than fight through all the negativity. As soon as things get tough, I expect him to fold. I think he's a lot like Kwame in that way. The whole thing about not wanting to get fouled so he doesn't have to shoot free throws... just ugh!

As bad as Vesely was last season, he's still been more productive than Tskitishvilli. Ol' Skita managed just one season with a PPA above zero -- a 16 in 99 total minutes in 05-06 (his last season in the league). Vesely rated a 70 his first season and a 19 last year. Skita is among the worst players in league history.

Historical note: Know who was part of the management team that drafted Skita? Current Wizards Vice President of Basketball Administration Tommy Sheppard.

[Ruzious]

God, I am so sick and tired of reading excuses for Vesely. He stunk because he lacks skills, didn't work effectively to improve them, and came to camp in lousy shape. He stunk because he sucked.

For whatever reasons of his own... he failed to do what he needed to do. A lot of people don't get what working hard means. They figure if I'm in the gym for 2 hours, that means I'm working hard - even if they're standing around most of the time joking with their friends - barely working up a sweat - and when they do actually work; they're using weights that people in real shape would laugh at. And workout video's showing him with a little sweat are a sad joke. And if that was the case last offseason, why is that different this offseason? Until we see results, there's no reason to believe he's changed. It's as simple as working smart and hard, but you have to actually do it.

Vesely is a thin guy. If he was out of shape, I bet it had something to do with his achilles injury.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/the ... price.html

How much did the Achilles injury slow you down in your 2012 offseason workouts?

Quite a bit. It happened to me at the end of the 2012 Summer League, and I had stop working out for three weeks in August. I could have worked out more if I was healthy.

Vesely is a skilled dunker who moves well off the ball. He's unselfish and will pass. He doesn't jack shots. He does set picks. He is a good basketball player--as is anyone in the NBA IMO.

I'm not making excuses. I'm dealing in facts. I'm uncovering truth the best way I can. If you hate Vesely fine. I couldn't stand Wall's game for where he was drafted. Took me years ...

Vesely isn't a lost cause at all. Signs point to a very dramatic turnaround IMO.

I could see that as an excuse for not working on his skills, but speaking as someone who had chronic achilles tendonitis, that should not stop a professional athlete from staying in shape. Workouts in water are not exactly something new, and it puts almost zero stress on the tendon. He could have done all kinds of weight training. This isn't about hating Vesely. It's hating the excuses and looking at accountability.

[Nivek]

Since an Achilles injury means a guy can't work out, I guess that means Kobe will be out of shape this season.

[Dat2U]

I think there's a better chance Vesely ends up back in Europe in 2014-15 as a Nikoloz Tskitishvilli level bust than him becoming a useful NBA player. It's too easy for him to make excuses and go into a shell than fight through all the negativity. As soon as things get tough, I expect him to fold. I think he's a lot like Kwame in that way. The whole thing about not wanting to get fouled so he doesn't have to shoot free throws... just ugh!

As bad as Vesely was last season, he's still been more productive than Tskitishvilli. Ol' Skita managed just one season with a PPA above zero -- a 16 in 99 total minutes in 05-06 (his last season in the league). Vesely rated a 70 his first season and a 19 last year. Skita is among the worst players in league history.

Historical note: Know who was part of the management team that drafted Skita? Current Wizards Vice President of Basketball Administration Tommy Sheppard.

I guess when a unnamed scout compared Skita to a broke version of Christian Laettner halfway into his rookie season, that might have been giving him too much credit.

Sheppard must not have learned anything from the Skita draft since the Wizards front office was virtually unanimous in agreeing on the Vesely pick.

[Nivek]

Not "virtually" unanimous. They were unanimous.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think there's a better chance Vesely ends up back in Europe in 2014-15 as a Nikoloz Tskitishvilli level bust than him becoming a useful NBA player. It's too easy for him to make excuses and go into a shell than fight through all the negativity. As soon as things get tough, I expect him to fold. I think he's a lot like Kwame in that way. The whole thing about not wanting to get fouled so he doesn't have to shoot free throws... just ugh!

As bad as Vesely was last season, he's still been more productive than Tskitishvilli. Ol' Skita managed just one season with a PPA above zero -- a 16 in 99 total minutes in 05-06 (his last season in the league). Vesely rated a 70 his first season and a 19 last year. Skita is among the worst players in league history.

Historical note: Know who was part of the management team that drafted Skita? Current Wizards Vice President of Basketball Administration Tommy Sheppard.

Back in 2001 or 2002, I saw Tskita work out a Pete Newell's Big Man Camp.

The guy appeared to my eyes and apperception at that time to be one terrific basketball player. Tskitishvilli was a beast in non-contact shooting drills. He had it down better than the other guys at that camp the times I was watching him. I felt the same way about Troy Murphy, but Tskita was longer and leaner IIRC. Murphy was more of a grinder while Tskita was a glider and like a greyhound the way he moved.

I was as wrong as Tommy Sheppard.

PS--I don't remember if Murphy and Tskita were at the same camp. I went to more than one and met a bunch of players there, including Nene, Antawn Jamison, and Zach Randolph, among others.