Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[stevemcqueen1]

I just sat down and looked at Philly's roster for the first time. It's one of the worst I've ever seen. They'll be lucky to get to 20 wins this year. Thaddeus Young and Evan Turner are the only two players on that team that can be respectable starters next season, neither are that great.

Philly is far worse than Charlotte, Orlando, and Boston.

[dckingsfan]

I just sat down and looked at Philly's roster for the first time. It's one of the worst I've ever seen. They'll be lucky to get to 20 wins this year. Thaddeus Young and Evan Turner are the only two players on that team that can be respectable starters next season, neither are that great.

Philly is far worse than Charlotte, Orlando, and Boston.

Agreed, I have them as the worst team in the ECF and the L.

[stevemcqueen1]

I just sat down and looked at Philly's roster for the first time. It's one of the worst I've ever seen. They'll be lucky to get to 20 wins this year. Thaddeus Young and Evan Turner are the only two players on that team that can be respectable starters next season, neither are that great.

Philly is far worse than Charlotte, Orlando, and Boston.

Agreed, I have them as the worst team in the ECF and the L.

Yeah, they've got to be the worst. Shameless tankers. I see Charlotte and Orlando as being too young to be good, but they've at least got talent and a fair amount good players rather than just two.

Boston actually has quite a few good players, I wouldn't be surprised if they stay fairly competitive. Rondo and Avery Bradley is one of the better back courts in the league. Jeff Green and Gerald Wallace are solid wings. Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass are decent PFs. And Kelly Olynyk should actually have a really good shot to win ROTY because he's probably going to get a ton of minutes at the C spot by default and a ton of opportunities to be the go to scorer. Everyone else in that line up specializes in something other than scoring. Plus they get Jared Sullinger back probably. I always thought he was a nice player.

And Boston's cap situation is in pretty good order. The only bad contracts they've got are Gerald Wallace and Jeff Green, but those aren't too bad. Wallace at ten million a year for three years is bleh. Jeff Green at 9 million per for three years is ok. Courtney Lee at 5.5 million for three years isn't great, but it's not bad by any means. Everything else is expiring or very affordable. I think Boston is in a better place long term than the Lakers are.

[Dat2U]

What do folks here think of Avery Bradley? By all accounts an elite defender, but does his lack of offensive contributions outweigh what he brings defensively? A TS% of .461, PER of 8.8 and a WS/40 of .012??? Those numbers look really bad. Really really bad.

[stevemcqueen1]

I like what Atlanta did this offseason. I think they've got a sneaky good roster and I think they're a playoff team with a healthy Horford.

I also like the roster Indy put together. Much more than the one the Nets have. Indy is just shy of legit contention IMO. As close as you can come without getting there.

I think Chicago has pretty much stayed put, and that might not be for the best. Adding Snell and Dunleavey made sense but neither are going to make a difference next year. This is the final year of Chicago's window with the roster construction as is. After this season, Deng comes off the books and I doubt he stays in Chicago. Boozer is rapidly declining and the Bulls will probably get rid of him as soon as they can. They'll have to reorganize the roster around just Rose and Noah. In that eventuality, I think they have to hope for internal improvement from their recent draft picks like Butler, Snell, and Teague to keep up the roster quality around Rose and Noah. They've got quite a bit of money invested in Taj Gibson long term. Really solid player but not a true difference maker. I think they need a major outside addition. A David West caliber FA pickup. Wonder if Danny Granger could end up being a good fit there?

I don't like the moves the Nets and the Knicks made. I think they mortgaged their futures to eke out a tiny window of long shot contention to try and cover up fundamental flaws in their construction. Those are poorly run organizations.

[stevemcqueen1]

Milwaukee made a lot of moves. Got a little worse in the short term, but they're much healthier looking now.

Losing Jennings and Ellis was an absolute must if they ever wanted to play smart basketball. Can't have two undersized, defensively weak gunners taking all your shots and back court minutes.

I like OJ Mayo as a much less selfish pure SG. Guys like Korver and Reddick are getting 6 to 7 million a year for lots of years. Shooting specialists can be expensive. As such, Mayo's contract doesn't look that bad, because he actually has big time athleticism and has some slashing ability.

Brandon Knight doesn't have to be anything more than a cheap placeholder with maybe some untapped upside there still.

Gary Neal was a nice, cheap addition. Adetokoubo has respectable upside. Delfino is a nice player and 3 ball shooter in the mean time. Nice group of shooters on the wings.

Henson and Sanders are a promising backbone for the front court and Ilyasova is, of course, a fine shooter on a nice contract. Pachulia is the big body their FC otherwise lacks, though he's not particularly good. Their team-wide shooting ability is outstanding--should be one of the best shooting teams in the league IMO. And their interior defense should be sweltering with Henson and Sanders. Slashing teams are going to have to work to score on them.

All they need is a big time, slashing PG that can also hit those shooters. Not a Brandon Knight, a John Wall or Russell Westbrook. If they had that guy, they'd be dangerous. Andrew Harrison?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

steve, I don't see Charlotte as too young. Haywood, Jefferson, Sessions, Gordon, and Pargo are all very experienced. They and teammates Adrien, McRoberts, and Henderson are all over 26 years of age.

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/roster/2013

Charlotte might not be good (I think they will) but they are stacked with veterans who have plenty experience. The young guys, Walker, Biyombo, Taylor, MKG, and Zeller, won't have to do all the heavy lifting.

It's not impossible for the Bobcats/Hornets to make the playoffs IMO.

[stevemcqueen1]

Other thoughts on East teams:

Heat - Championship favorites yet again, next.

Pistons - Don't like what they've done at all this offseason. I think they've poisoned the well and Dumars should be fired. They've had some of the biggest chemistry problems of any team the past several years and then they added Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings into that mix. Plus KCP, who I thought was overrated and does nothing to improve the selfish, low IQ situation they're going to have. This is exactly the wrong situation for Tony Mitchell. Chauncey Billups is a vastly needed leader for that locker room, but he's on his absolute last legs this season. None of Rodney Stuckey, Will Bynum, Charlie V, Jonas Jerebko are particularly good, nor have any upside whatsoever. Stuckey is a problem player IMO. Singler doesn't really have much upside. Drummond has enormous upside but I worry for him, developing in that atmosphere with that surrounding talent. Especially that awful backcourt. This just is not a good team. It's a bad team with a few individually good players that has almost no hope of coming together IMO.

I think they've set themselves up to lose Greg Monroe, who was their most intriguing and promising player.

Raptors - In the first year of what'll probably end up being a long overhaul.

In an ideal world, they'd tear the thing down right now, get a top three pick this season, and rebuild around that guy and Valanciunas. They won't act fast enough to do that IMO. I don't think they've come to accept their construction is flawed and needs to be overhauled yet.

Getting rid of Bargnani was huge. Now they have to address the Gay mistake before they can really move on. Ross is a potentially nice reserve wing and shooter. DeMar DeRozan is an intriguing athletic talent and creative offensive player. But he's a wing that doesn't have 3 ball range, which limits his utility. Kyle Lowery is a competent starting PG but he is always hurt and he doesn't have any upside left. Amir Johnson is a goon, no more, no less.

Valanciunas is a fine young big man, by far the most promising piece on that team. He's the one guy they've got right now worth building around long term. I think he's got the ability to grow into one of the best two way centers in the league. This is the guy they need to go out and find a perimeter star to pair with. They should be tanking, but I think they've got too much respectable veteran talent to properly tank. They're going to be on the fringe of the playoff picture again.

Cavs - Extremely talented young core. A few flaws though. Every single one of their best players is notoriously injury prone. More injury prone than the Wizards in fact: Irving, Bennett, Bynum, Varejao. They're also smallish and weak defensively--they don't really have a foundation for good defense. If Bynum makes it to January, his contract will be for two years and 12.5 million per. A bargain if he's healthy. But it's more likely that his career is basically over and his knees are shot. This is his last chance to play his way into a max deal IMO. If he does it, then Cleveland will have struck the lottery and solved a ton of their team issues. He's certainly not undersized like all of their other key players. And he'd establish that foundation for defense they desperately lack.

I actually like Tristan Thompson, acknowledging that he's a flawed player. But I think he's a useful energy guy, and if he could learn to play defense, he'd be very valuable. He's a very, very long ways away from being a good defender though. He's a ways away from being a passable defender...

Bennett has huge offensive upside, likely to be a horrible defender early on.

Kyrie is already one of the best scorers and shooters in the game, a brilliant offensive player, an equally horrible defender. Not a natural facilitator either. That's his one major area for improvement offensively.

Waiters is overrated and over-drafted IMO. He's a strong slasher with some definite scoring tools. But he's a hot and cold player with a sketchy basketball IQ. He's also another horrible defender. It's like Cleveland pays no mind to defense whatsoever when they make their high draft picks. That's what your advanced metrics-minded FO gets you I suppose...

Varejao is a nice player with serious health issues.

Cleveland's cap situation is terrific though. Practically every deal has a team option for next season. Kyrie will get a max deal. Probably get the Derrick Rose max TBH. Bynum's contract is not particularly risky for them. Jarret Jack's deal probably isn't the best at 6.3 for the next 4 years. But they can certainly afford it. Early Clark is only for two years. Their cap is basically free starting next year and they are still way under the cap this year.

Wiz - No crippling contracts. Nene at 13 per for three years is only bad if he stays hurt, but I think 70 games a season from him is possible. His contract is more than fair when he's healthy. Big expirings in Okafor and Ariza. Lots of rookie deals. Full MLE on Webster is actually fairly cheap for a 3 ball shooter of his caliber. I compare it to the Reddick and Korver and Mayo deals. The only question is health. Still some totally untapped upside from the Ves/Singleton/Booker/Seraphin group that might yet be extracted. Wall/Beal/Porter is as good a young core as any in the league IMO. I think each are just a little bit better than the corresponding members of Cleveland's young big 3. Health is a question mark certainly. But much less so than it is for Cleveland.

[stevemcqueen1]

steve, I don't see Charlotte as too young. Haywood, Jefferson, Sessions, Gordon, and Pargo are all very experienced. Them and guys like Adrien, McRoberts, and Henderson are all over 26 years of age.

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/roster/2013

Charlotte might not be good (I think they will) but they are stacked with veterans who have plenty experience.

The young guys, Walker, Biyombo, Taylor, MKG, and Zeller won't have to do all the heavy lifting. It's not impossible for the Bobcat/Hornet to make the playoffs IMO.

It's certainly not impossible. But their problem is that, aside from Jefferson, their key guys are the young ones. I think Jefferson and Gordon are on their way out the door, maybe before the season is over. Haywood and Pargo aren't good enough to command a significant role on a playoff team.

Sessions is a nice player, he should be able to make an impact for a quality team.

After Jefferson, the real talent, and thus the real meat of the team, is in the young guys on rookie deals: Kemba, MKG, and Zeller. Those three are very mature guys, but there's no substitute for experience.

The Bobcats were unspeakably bad the past two years. One of the worst runs in NBA history. They've got a long ways to go and a lot of work to do in repairing their culture, and establishing a foundation for winning. You have to walk before you can run. Winning 35 games this season would be a very big measure of success for them IMO, a legit sign of progress. I think they're at least a year away from realistically contending for the playoffs.

[Dat2U]

Regarding the Cavs, am I the only one that thinks they should start Jarrett Jack next to Kyrie Irving and move Waiters to 3rd guard? Waiters is an aggressive, attacking slasher that needs the ball in his hands to create but suffers from a bit of tunnel vision. I think he'd excel against lesser talented guys off the bench where he'd be the lead dog in a Harden 6th man type role. Kyrie Irving could benefit from playing extensive minutes with a guy like Jack who can nail 3s consistently and get the offense into their sets without over dribbling or consistently breaking plays off to create for himself like Waiters typically did. Kyrie actually can play off the ball and do so well, but the fit with Waiters is a bit awkward right now so the fewer minutes they are on the floor together, the better, at least for now.

Also I view Bynum as a low risk low reward type of signing. I don't think they can count on him for anything right now. IMO it's a 50/50 bet that he ever steps on a court again. Cleveland's success will hinge greatly on the health of Anderson Varejao. He's been really good when healthy, he just hasn't been healthy much lately. If Varejao plays in 50-60 games, the playoffs are a legitimate possibility, if Varejao misses many more than that, then we'll likely see a lot of Tristan Thompson in the middle which likely means another lottery pick next year.

[pancakes3]

No, Dat. I'm with you. Jack has been undervalued everywhere he's gone. He's a very good chameleon of a player that can play wholeheartedly the set-up man or the shooter depending on what the situation calls for. A true "combo" guard rather than a tweener like J-Craw. Waiters would be a very good spark off the bench. Plus it's not like Jack is going to play 30+mpg. Both guys topping out at 28mpg is fine.

[dckingsfan]

I like what Atlanta did this offseason. I think they've got a sneaky good roster and I think they're a playoff team with a healthy Horford.

I don't - I really think they should have figured out a way to get a C to play next to Horford.

I also like the roster Indy put together. Much more than the one the Nets have. Indy is just shy of legit contention IMO. As close as you can come without getting there.

Violent Agreement

I think Chicago has pretty much stayed put, and that might not be for the best. Adding Snell and Dunleavey made sense but neither are going to make a difference next year. This is the final year of Chicago's window with the roster construction as is. After this season, Deng comes off the books and I doubt he stays in Chicago. Boozer is rapidly declining and the Bulls will probably get rid of him as soon as they can. They'll have to reorganize the roster around just Rose and Noah. In that eventuality, I think they have to hope for internal improvement from their recent draft picks like Butler, Snell, and Teague to keep up the roster quality around Rose and Noah. They've got quite a bit of money invested in Taj Gibson long term. Really solid player but not a true difference maker. I think they need a major outside addition. A David West caliber FA pickup. Wonder if Danny Granger could end up being a good fit there?

I think they did a nice job with Butler and I see the same with Snell. And the core of Rose and Noah is a good one. Also, Boozer had one of his best years last year - I don't see him declining. I think this will be a good year for Chicago - I think they will give Miami fits. Then they need to go grab a wing in FA next year.

I don't like the moves the Nets and the Knicks made. I think they mortgaged their futures to eke out a tiny window of long shot contention to try and cover up fundamental flaws in their construction. Those are poorly run organizations.

I think the Nets more than the Knicks. The Knicks get to basically reset after next year (my guess is that everyone opts in but losing Anthony is definitely a possibility. I guess the Nets believe they are going to win it all - they must believe that or they wouldn't have made those moves.

[Dat2U]

I like what Atlanta did this offseason. I think they've got a sneaky good roster and I think they're a playoff team with a healthy Horford.

I don't - I really think they should have figured out a way to get a C to play next to Horford.

Horford is a rock solid C himself. He's played C for 6 years now and done so well. He's the reason why they didn't miss a beat after Joe Johnson was traded. IMO, he was a much more important piece to the puzzle than Smith.

I'd also prefer Millsap to Smith although Atlanta may certainly miss Smith's defensive impact. Overall I think they're as good as they've been in the past.

[Dat2U]

I don't like the moves the Nets and the Knicks made. I think they mortgaged their futures to eke out a tiny window of long shot contention to try and cover up fundamental flaws in their construction. Those are poorly run organizations.

Disagree on the Nets. Strongly agree on the Knicks.

Nets added a ton of salary and mortgaged the future, but they've also made themselves a legit contender. Garnett, Pierce, Kirilenko & Terry are strong additions and infuse a strong core of Williams & Lopez and they gave very little in terms of quality to add all these pieces. It's a veteran team that can police itself while Jason Kidd learns on the job as coach. Depending on how much Garnett & Pierce have left come playoff time, they could be a serious threat to Miami, Chicago & Indiana.

The Knicks may take a huge tumble. They'll go only as far as Melo & Chandler take them. I don't trust J.R. Smith now that he's got his money. Amar'e is stuck as a 20 minute or so bench player because he can't play with Melo and Bargs is arguably the worst acquisition of the off-season. I wouldn't be surprised to see Melo exit stage left next offseason.

[Ruzious]

The problem with the Nets is - their window might be closed before the season ends. Literally KG, Pierce, Johnson, and Terry could easily all be virtually done by the end of the season. AK doesn't move like he used to. Even younger guys like Lopez and Blatche are slow. And Williams has a tendency to get out of shape. They will challenge Minnesota for slowest team in the NBA.

The Knicks continue to go with selfish players - adding Bargs and re-signing Smith. They're very easy to root against, but they're talented enough to finish above .500, and I think they will.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Other thoughts on East teams:

Heat - Championship favorites yet again, next.

Pistons - Don't like what they've done at all this offseason. I think they've poisoned the well and Dumars should be fired. They've had some of the biggest chemistry problems of any team the past several years and then they added Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings into that mix. Plus KCP, who I thought was overrated and does nothing to improve the selfish, low IQ situation they're going to have. This is exactly the wrong situation for Tony Mitchell. Chauncey Billups is a vastly needed leader for that locker room, but he's on his absolute last legs this season. None of Rodney Stuckey, Will Bynum, Charlie V, Jonas Jerebko are particularly good, nor have any upside whatsoever. Stuckey is a problem player IMO. Singler doesn't really have much upside. Drummond has enormous upside but I worry for him, developing in that atmosphere with that surrounding talent. Especially that awful backcourt. This just is not a good team. It's a bad team with a few individually good players that has almost no hope of coming together IMO.

I think they've set themselves up to lose Greg Monroe, who was their most intriguing and promising player.

Raptors - In the first year of what'll probably end up being a long overhaul.

In an ideal world, they'd tear the thing down right now, get a top three pick this season, and rebuild around that guy and Valanciunas. They won't act fast enough to do that IMO. I don't think they've come to accept their construction is flawed and needs to be overhauled yet.

Getting rid of Bargnani was huge. Now they have to address the Gay mistake before they can really move on. Ross is a potentially nice reserve wing and shooter. DeMar DeRozan is an intriguing athletic talent and creative offensive player. But he's a wing that doesn't have 3 ball range, which limits his utility. Kyle Lowery is a competent starting PG but he is always hurt and he doesn't have any upside left. Amir Johnson is a goon, no more, no less.

Valanciunas is a fine young big man, by far the most promising piece on that team. He's the one guy they've got right now worth building around long term. I think he's got the ability to grow into one of the best two way centers in the league. This is the guy they need to go out and find a perimeter star to pair with. They should be tanking, but I think they've got too much respectable veteran talent to properly tank. They're going to be on the fringe of the playoff picture again.

Cavs - Extremely talented young core. A few flaws though. Every single one of their best players is notoriously injury prone. More injury prone than the Wizards in fact: Irving, Bennett, Bynum, Varejao. They're also smallish and weak defensively--they don't really have a foundation for good defense. If Bynum makes it to January, his contract will be for two years and 12.5 million per. A bargain if he's healthy. But it's more likely that his career is basically over and his knees are shot. This is his last chance to play his way into a max deal IMO. If he does it, then Cleveland will have struck the lottery and solved a ton of their team issues. He's certainly not undersized like all of their other key players. And he'd establish that foundation for defense they desperately lack.

I actually like Tristan Thompson, acknowledging that he's a flawed player. But I think he's a useful energy guy, and if he could learn to play defense, he'd be very valuable. He's a very, very long ways away from being a good defender though. He's a ways away from being a passable defender...

Bennett has huge offensive upside, likely to be a horrible defender early on.

Kyrie is already one of the best scorers and shooters in the game, a brilliant offensive player, an equally horrible defender. Not a natural facilitator either. That's his one major area for improvement offensively.

Waiters is overrated and over-drafted IMO. He's a strong slasher with some definite scoring tools. But he's a hot and cold player with a sketchy basketball IQ. He's also another horrible defender. It's like Cleveland pays no mind to defense whatsoever when they make their high draft picks. That's what your advanced metrics-minded FO gets you I suppose...

Varejao is a nice player with serious health issues.

Cleveland's cap situation is terrific though. Practically every deal has a team option for next season. Kyrie will get a max deal. Probably get the Derrick Rose max TBH. Bynum's contract is not particularly risky for them. Jarret Jack's deal probably isn't the best at 6.3 for the next 4 years. But they can certainly afford it. Early Clark is only for two years. Their cap is basically free starting next year and they are still way under the cap this year.

Wiz - No crippling contracts. Nene at 13 per for three years is only bad if he stays hurt, but I think 70 games a season from him is possible. His contract is more than fair when he's healthy. Big expirings in Okafor and Ariza. Lots of rookie deals. Full MLE on Webster is actually fairly cheap for a 3 ball shooter of his caliber. I compare it to the Reddick and Korver and Mayo deals. The only question is health. Still some totally untapped upside from the Ves/Singleton/Booker/Seraphin group that might yet be extracted. Wall/Beal/Porter is as good a young core as any in the league IMO. I think each are just a little bit better than the corresponding members of Cleveland's young big 3. Health is a question mark certainly. But much less so than it is for Cleveland.

steve, I really enjoyed this post. Lots of knowledgeable insights from you. Thanks.

I hope things work out so the Wizards can be in position to snatch up a player like Monroe if/when he becomes available. Tony Mitchell is the kind of athlete I believe the Wizards can use. Is he a good, solid dude? Would he be a good teammate? Like you, I see that being a worst-case team for him. Josh Smith is going to play and he makes huge money. Same kind of game, probably just better than Mitchell's game. If Mitchell doesn't pan out there, he's a guy who might pan out with the Wizards. I recall that he and Bradley Beal, as well as Doug McDermott played some international ball together. http://www.usab.com/mens/u19/11_mu19_tr ... itees.html

I totally agree with you that Toronto did well to move Bargnani. They also picked up Steve Novak who does a lot of the same things better and cheaper than Bargs. I suspect the Knicks might not be as good as advertised. Bargnani and Metta World Peace have quality skill sets in some things, but that's a crowded mix in NY with players who are going to want more. Shots, minutes, and I think wins from their team.

I don't know if I agree the Cavs are as bad as you think, but you've definitely scouted them way better than I have. I thought Thompson was already a good defender. One thing I do agree is that Anderson Varejao is a good player. I think he would complete the Wizards front court. He's that good. I've seen him outplay healthy Nene. Heaven knows he's beaten the Wizards with the Cavs and Lebron in the playoffs many years. I have always liked his game. I hope Bynum runs him off to a team like the Wizards. On the Cavs, I also TOTALLY AGREE that Waiters is most overrated. As far as Kyrie's defense goes, I've called him superior to Wall, but Wall can go off with Irving trying to cover John. I predict this season Wall will surpass Irving in all star votes, primarily because I think the Wizards' pieces fit better than the Cavs'. Washington will be a better team. I think Byron Scott's coaching is more problematic than their defense, but I could be wrong. Jarrett Jack and Earl Clark, as well as a healthy Andrew Bynum OTOH could really prove me wrong.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't like the moves the Nets and the Knicks made. I think they mortgaged their futures to eke out a tiny window of long shot contention to try and cover up fundamental flaws in their construction. Those are poorly run organizations.

Disagree on the Nets. Strongly agree on the Knicks.

Nets added a ton of salary and mortgaged the future, but they've also made themselves a legit contender. Garnett, Pierce, Kirilenko & Terry are strong additions and infuse a strong core of Williams & Lopez and they gave very little in terms of quality to add all these pieces. It's a veteran team that can police itself while Jason Kidd learns on the job as coach. Depending on how much Garnett & Pierce have left come playoff time, they could be a serious threat to Miami, Chicago & Indiana.

The Knicks may take a huge tumble. They'll go only as far as Melo & Chandler take them. I don't trust J.R. Smith now that he's got his money. Amar'e is stuck as a 20 minute or so bench player because he can't play with Melo and Bargs is arguably the worst acquisition of the off-season. I wouldn't be surprised to see Melo exit stage left next offseason.

I think the Knicks WILL tumble.

I also think Coach Kidd is in for a helluva time trying to keep aging players happy. KG is old. He and Pierce aren't what they used to be or they'd still be Celtics. Boston killed it getting draft picks forever for those two players. Kirilenko can't help them on the bench. He won't get minutes over other players at PF or SF. Joe Johnson has played with Pierce in the past, but now will he share the basketball. Pierce was the man in Boston way back in 2001-2002, when Joe Johnson was a rookie. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2002.html Things are different now.

I think Brooklyn will not only have an new coach who's never had to manage egos and be THE coach; but they'll also have old dogs trying to learn new tricks as role players. When will Mason Plumlee play? Who's going to defend the perimeter? Deron Williams?

I don't think Brooklyn's going to be a world-beater, but they do have guys to challenge even Miami.

[dckingsfan]

Yeah, they've got to be the worst. Shameless tankers. I see Charlotte and Orlando as being too young to be good, but they've at least got talent and a fair amount good players rather than just two.

Over under on 20 wins?

The only thing that would make it too funny is if they ended up with the 5th pick in the '14 draft.

[Kanyewest]

What do folks here think of Avery Bradley? By all accounts an elite defender, but does his lack of offensive contributions outweigh what he brings defensively? A TS% of .461, PER of 8.8 and a WS/40 of .012??? Those numbers look really bad. Really really bad.

Bradley came back off of an injury - he was sidelined to begin the season from the shoulder surgery he suffered the year before. Before he got injured, he had a TS% of 55%- not sure if that was a fluke or if he'll ever get back to that point but he is certainly someone that has the chance to be a very good two way player- as long as someone like Rondo is creating offense for him.

[Nivek]

Bradley is an interesting player. His offense has been bad, and his defense is reputed to be great, but...that great defense hasn't really shown up in the numbers with any consistency. Boston has been good defensively when he's been on the floor, but they've been good defensively without him on the floor too. He did seem to make a defensive impact in his second season, and last year he was hurt. I'd like to see what he does this year.

I think he needs to improve on offense if he's really going to make an impact, though.