most clutch players in NBA

[mademan]

Saying Lebron isn't clutch was legit 2 years ago after Dallas embarrassed him. But he's proven himself as clutch in the last 2 Finals. Especially against the Spurs when he hit that 3 pointer even after missing the first two shots he took.

So Lebron is clutch for making a 3 against the Spurs despite the fact that he led up to that point by missing two shots and turning the ball over twice? Then he missed the game tying three and got bailed out by Ray Allen, a player ho actually is clutch. By that logic a clutch player is one who just jacks up enough shots and eventually one goes in. I guess Kobe is clutch then

No, Lebron is clutch because he's consistently, over the past 5 years, been one of the best 4th quarter/last 5 min performers in the league.

But screw numbers right. Lebron=choker, Kobe=clutch...

[dice]

And for the life of me I've never figured out why LeBron fans are so affronted when people don't think he's that clutch. Sure he's had his moments in the clutch, but there are several guys I'd take over him in the final minutes if the game is close. That isn't really an indictment of him as a player though, because he's good enough to where the game often isn't close in the end.

No one in NBA history scores more in game 7s and elimination playoff games than LeBron. If that's not clutch, then you need to change your definition of clutch.

he addressed that point

[bullsnewdynasty]

Saying Lebron isn't clutch was legit 2 years ago after Dallas embarrassed him. But he's proven himself as clutch in the last 2 Finals. Especially against the Spurs when he hit that 3 pointer even after missing the first two shots he took.

So Lebron is clutch for making a 3 against the Spurs despite the fact that he led up to that point by missing two shots and turning the ball over twice? Then he missed the game tying three and got bailed out by Ray Allen, a player ho actually is clutch. By that logic a clutch player is one who just jacks up enough shots and eventually one goes in. I guess Kobe is clutch then

It's fascinating how the perception of LeBron would have changed if Allen didn't hit that 3. While LeBron did dominate game 7, he completely choked away the last 2 minutes of game 6 in regulation. But many people forget that.

I still think he's clutch but to suggest that he's "most clutch" isn't true, IMO. 2011 vs. Dallas will always be an embarrassment for him.

[homecourtloss]

Saying Lebron isn't clutch was legit 2 years ago after Dallas embarrassed him. But he's proven himself as clutch in the last 2 Finals. Especially against the Spurs when he hit that 3 pointer even after missing the first two shots he took.

So Lebron is clutch for making a 3 against the Spurs despite the fact that he led up to that point by missing two shots and turning the ball over twice? Then he missed the game tying three and got bailed out by Ray Allen, a player ho actually is clutch. By that logic a clutch player is one who just jacks up enough shots and eventually one goes in. I guess Kobe is clutch then

You don't like (don't know about) statistics and pure data, do you? All the data refutes what you are trying to say by citing this singular game example (or 4 possessions).

[mademan]

It's fascinating how the perception of LeBron would have changed if Allen didn't hit that 3. While LeBron did dominate game 7, he completely choked away the last 2 minutes of game 6 in regulation. But many people forget that.

I still think he's clutch but to suggest that he's "most clutch" isn't true, IMO. 2011 vs. Dallas will always be an embarrassment for him.

Who would you say is more clutch than him? Can you substantiate your claim? All the numbers point to Lebron being 1 of the most clutch players in the league, what can you show to refute that?

[washderice]

Saying Lebron isn't clutch was legit 2 years ago after Dallas embarrassed him. But he's proven himself as clutch in the last 2 Finals. Especially against the Spurs when he hit that 3 pointer even after missing the first two shots he took.

So Lebron is clutch for making a 3 against the Spurs despite the fact that he led up to that point by missing two shots and turning the ball over twice? Then he missed the game tying three and got bailed out by Ray Allen, a player ho actually is clutch. By that logic a clutch player is one who just jacks up enough shots and eventually one goes in. I guess Kobe is clutch then

while he wasnt perfect at the end there (tho the 3 he made was nice) he was clutch as hell leading them from 10 down to start that quarter. he scored or assisted on miamis first 23 pts of the quarter and personally outscored the spurs through the first 6 min of the quarter as well. they dont even have the chance at the end if he doesnt lose his headband and go apeshizzle on the spurs.

obviously no one comes through in these situations 100% of the time, but the FACTS show king james comes through (making the right basketball plays, whether thats taking the shot, finding the best shot elsewhere, defending who needs to be defended, grabbing key rebounds) more often than anyone else in todays game.

[bullsnewdynasty]

It's fascinating how the perception of LeBron would have changed if Allen didn't hit that 3. While LeBron did dominate game 7, he completely choked away the last 2 minutes of game 6 in regulation. But many people forget that.

I still think he's clutch but to suggest that he's "most clutch" isn't true, IMO. 2011 vs. Dallas will always be an embarrassment for him.

Who would you say is more clutch than him? Can you substantiate your claim? All the numbers point to Lebron being 1 of the most clutch players in the league, what can you show to refute that?

LeBron James, in the regular season, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, shot to tie or take lead

2012-13: 10/30 .333
2011-12: 5/10 .500
2010-11: 5/15 .333

Playoffs

2012-13: 3/4 .75
2011-12: 3/8 .375
2010-11: 4/8 .500

Some examples of who was more clutch?

2010-11 regular season: Rose 12/27 .444
Playoffs: Dirk 6/9 .667

2011-12 regular season: Kobe 15/34 .441 (guess I was wrong)
Playoffs: Durant 6/9 .667

2012-13 regular season: Joe Johnson 10/12 .833

[mademan]

LeBron James, in the regular season, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, shot to tie or take lead

2012-13: 10/30 .333
2011-12: 5/10 .500
2010-11: 5/15 .333

Playoffs

2012-13: 3/4 .75
2011-12: 3/8 .375
2010-11: 4/8 .500

Some examples of who was more clutch?

2010-11 regular season: Rose 12/27 .444
Playoffs: Dirk 6/9 .667

2011-12 regular season: Kobe 15/34 .441 (guess I was wrong)
Playoffs: Durant 6/9 .667

2012-13 regular season: Joe Johnson 10/12 .833

So limit it to the smallest paramters you can (2 min or less, shot to tie/take the lead, only scoring) and in this super small sample size, he doesn't come out ahead. What do you say about him leading the league in 4th quarter scoring when he was on the cav? Or the Cavs and 2012 and 2013 Heat being top clutch teams in the league? Or the fact that he's the best under 5 min? Or that he defends the opposing best player and rebounds and assists better than his average.

...And it's funny how you put out so much data from Lebron and only put out the best you could find from these other players.

[bullsnewdynasty]

LeBron James, in the regular season, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, shot to tie or take lead

2012-13: 10/30 .333
2011-12: 5/10 .500
2010-11: 5/15 .333

Playoffs

2012-13: 3/4 .75
2011-12: 3/8 .375
2010-11: 4/8 .500

Some examples of who was more clutch?

2010-11 regular season: Rose 12/27 .444
Playoffs: Dirk 6/9 .667

2011-12 regular season: Kobe 15/34 .441 (guess I was wrong)
Playoffs: Durant 6/9 .667

2012-13 regular season: Joe Johnson 10/12 .833

So limit it to the smallest paramters you can (2 min or less, shot to tie/take the lead, only scoring) and in this super small sample size, he doesn't come out ahead. What do you say about him leading the league in 4th quarter scoring when he was on the cav? Or the Cavs and 2012 and 2013 Heat being top clutch teams in the league? Or the fact that he's the best under 5 min? Or that he defends the opposing best player and rebounds and assists better than his average.

...And it's funny how you put out so much data from Lebron and only put out the best you could find from these other players.

IMO those are reasonable parameters to represent what a clutch situation is - when your team needs a bucket, can you deliver?

4th quarter scoring and stuff like that is not indicative of being clutch. It's one thing to frontrun and score when the game is out of reach, it's another thing to score a crucial bucket when the game's on the line.

[mademan]

Fronttun? I'm pretty sure the Cavs lead the league in 4th quarter comebacks in 09 and 10 when Lebron was there (The Heat were pretty amazing this year too). Those parameters you used provide small sample sizes that are indicative of nothing (like J.Johnson going 8/9 this year). You widen the parameters to 5 min or the entire 4th quarter and you see the same names at the top every single year (Lebron, Dirk, Paul..etc).

[TheOUTLAW]

he's been lot less effective as he got older and his legs bother him more and more, but some people in here act as if their sphincters never got a little tighter when kobe was taking that last shot against their team.

Eh, I've gotten paranoid about just about anyone taking that last shot

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llArRqrdNcg[/youtube]

[Hello Brooklyn]

Statistically speaking, Joe Johnson was the clutchest player in the NBA last year and it wasn't close.

He also hit the most game winners.

I don't really see who else you can put above him.

[NBA4EVA2010]

Saying Lebron isn't clutch was legit 2 years ago after Dallas embarrassed him. But he's proven himself as clutch in the last 2 Finals. Especially against the Spurs when he hit that 3 pointer even after missing the first two shots he took.

Interesting article from 2010

[Rasho_libre]

Fronttun? I'm pretty sure the Cavs lead the league in 4th quarter comebacks in 09 and 10 when Lebron was there (The Heat were pretty amazing this year too). Those parameters you used provide small sample sizes that are indicative of nothing (like J.Johnson going 8/9 this year). You widen the parameters to 5 min or the entire 4th quarter and you see the same names at the top every single year (Lebron, Dirk, Paul..etc).

Front run is a skip Bayless argument. What's expect from people that don't look at evidence when they make claims though.

[42uptop]

Saying Lebron isn't clutch was legit 2 years ago after Dallas embarrassed him. But he's proven himself as clutch in the last 2 Finals. Especially against the Spurs when he hit that 3 pointer even after missing the first two shots he took.

So Lebron is clutch for making a 3 against the Spurs despite the fact that he led up to that point by missing two shots and turning the ball over twice? Then he missed the game tying three and got bailed out by Ray Allen, a player ho actually is clutch. By that logic a clutch player is one who just jacks up enough shots and eventually one goes in. I guess Kobe is clutch then

No, Lebron is clutch because he's consistently, over the past 5 years, been one of the best 4th quarter/last 5 min performers in the league.

But screw numbers right. Lebron=choker, Kobe=clutch...

You really need to improve your reading comprehension skills

[42uptop]

Saying Lebron isn't clutch was legit 2 years ago after Dallas embarrassed him. But he's proven himself as clutch in the last 2 Finals. Especially against the Spurs when he hit that 3 pointer even after missing the first two shots he took.

So Lebron is clutch for making a 3 against the Spurs despite the fact that he led up to that point by missing two shots and turning the ball over twice? Then he missed the game tying three and got bailed out by Ray Allen, a player ho actually is clutch. By that logic a clutch player is one who just jacks up enough shots and eventually one goes in. I guess Kobe is clutch then

You don't like (don't know about) statistics and pure data, do you? All the data refutes what you are trying to say by citing this singular game example (or 4 possessions).

Maybe if you hopped off of Lebron's sack you could have some objectivity in this thread, though that admittedly would be asking for too much from a fanboy fan like yourself.

Reread the post I was responding to. Do you see any pure data or statistics? No? So then you have no argument.

[42uptop]

Saying Lebron isn't clutch was legit 2 years ago after Dallas embarrassed him. But he's proven himself as clutch in the last 2 Finals. Especially against the Spurs when he hit that 3 pointer even after missing the first two shots he took.

So Lebron is clutch for making a 3 against the Spurs despite the fact that he led up to that point by missing two shots and turning the ball over twice? Then he missed the game tying three and got bailed out by Ray Allen, a player ho actually is clutch. By that logic a clutch player is one who just jacks up enough shots and eventually one goes in. I guess Kobe is clutch then

while he wasnt perfect at the end there (tho the 3 he made was nice) he was clutch as hell leading them from 10 down to start that quarter. he scored or assisted on miamis first 23 pts of the quarter and personally outscored the spurs through the first 6 min of the quarter as well. they dont even have the chance at the end if he doesnt lose his headband and go apeshizzle on the spurs.

obviously no one comes through in these situations 100% of the time, but the FACTS show king james comes through (making the right basketball plays, whether thats taking the shot, finding the best shot elsewhere, defending who needs to be defended, grabbing key rebounds) more often than anyone else in todays game.

Your first paragraph is a a waste. The person I responded to said Lebron is clutch because he made one three pointer against the Spurs, which is irrational.

Please show me the facts that Lebron almost always makes the right play in the clutch. I need facts that Lebron almost always defends the right person, makes the right pass, makes the shot, and grabs the key rebounds.

You say that Lebron is not just good at them, but according to you he is better than anybody else in todays game at doing these four things. I would like to see your proof of it, and I will admit I am wrong if you have anything

[TheOUTLAW]

LeBron James, in the regular season, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, shot to tie or take lead

2012-13: 10/30 .333
2011-12: 5/10 .500
2010-11: 5/15 .333

Playoffs

2012-13: 3/4 .75
2011-12: 3/8 .375
2010-11: 4/8 .500

Some examples of who was more clutch?

2010-11 regular season: Rose 12/27 .444
Playoffs: Dirk 6/9 .667

2011-12 regular season: Kobe 15/34 .441 (guess I was wrong)
Playoffs: Durant 6/9 .667

2012-13 regular season: Joe Johnson 10/12 .833

So limit it to the smallest paramters you can (2 min or less, shot to tie/take the lead, only scoring) and in this super small sample size, he doesn't come out ahead. What do you say about him leading the league in 4th quarter scoring when he was on the cav? Or the Cavs and 2012 and 2013 Heat being top clutch teams in the league? Or the fact that he's the best under 5 min? Or that he defends the opposing best player and rebounds and assists better than his average.

...And it's funny how you put out so much data from Lebron and only put out the best you could find from these other players.

IMO those are reasonable parameters to represent what a clutch situation is - when your team needs a bucket, can you deliver?

4th quarter scoring and stuff like that is not indicative of being clutch. It's one thing to frontrun and score when the game is out of reach, it's another thing to score a crucial bucket when the game's on the line.

BTW it is important to be able to score when a game is still close even if you have the lead. It's just silly to minimize the ability to keep a lead and try to diminish the importance of that. That said, LeBron was absolutely a beast when with the Cavs at helping the team come from behind. 5 pts is not out of reach but this argument clearly appears to be a reach on your part.

[bullsnewdynasty]

FYI I already said LeBron was clutch, I just don't think he's the best with the game on the line.

[Rasho_libre]

So Lebron is clutch for making a 3 against the Spurs despite the fact that he led up to that point by missing two shots and turning the ball over twice? Then he missed the game tying three and got bailed out by Ray Allen, a player ho actually is clutch. By that logic a clutch player is one who just jacks up enough shots and eventually one goes in. I guess Kobe is clutch then

while he wasnt perfect at the end there (tho the 3 he made was nice) he was clutch as hell leading them from 10 down to start that quarter. he scored or assisted on miamis first 23 pts of the quarter and personally outscored the spurs through the first 6 min of the quarter as well. they dont even have the chance at the end if he doesnt lose his headband and go apeshizzle on the spurs.

obviously no one comes through in these situations 100% of the time, but the FACTS show king james comes through (making the right basketball plays, whether thats taking the shot, finding the best shot elsewhere, defending who needs to be defended, grabbing key rebounds) more often than anyone else in todays game.

Your first paragraph is a a waste. The person I responded to said Lebron is clutch because he made one three pointer against the Spurs, which is irrational.

Please show me the facts that Lebron almost always makes the right play in the clutch. I need facts that Lebron almost always defends the right person, makes the right pass, makes the shot, and grabs the key rebounds.

You say that Lebron is not just good at them, but according to you he is better than anybody else in todays game at doing these four things. I would like to see your proof of it, and I will admit I am wrong if you have anything

Well where to start, lets start by game 7 it was just his last nba game. Makes the right play? All the go ahead buckets late in game including the one to ice the game. Defends the right person? Shuts down tony Parker in game7, pick pockets Manu at the end also on the bosh switch, makes the right pass? Rebounds it and darts a pass to battier for the late 3.

Any more stats check his late game clutch stats he's easily the most productive player pts/tbs/assts wise, any more lookup side shows thread and figure out who is spearheading the best offences in clutch time the last couple of years ( hint: dirk and this other guy that wear 23 and 6). Do your Own research if you want to use numbers it's all there for you.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1248280

Sideshows thread is there with extensive clutch stats for alot of guys.