Farrell takes shot at Jays pitching development strategy

[Wo1verine]

Turning this team around seems very unlikely if they can't get Rogers to spend more money next year.

I look for AA to gut the farm some more to try and save his job.

[Randle McMurphy]

John Farrell being full of ****? Nothing new there, I'm afraid.

[Fairview4Life]

7. There are shortcuts to success, but don't play all your good cards to take one.

He didn't.

[Raps_Swingman]

I'm not on the fire-AA bandwagon, likely won't be any time soon. He was an inexperienced hire as GM, and he's made a lot of mistakes that he hopefully learned from.

1. Don't go all-in on talent but not the manager.
2. Don't draft low-signability players in the first round, at least don't make a habit of it.
3. With veterans, a declining year over year performance should be taken as a trend not to be ignored.
4. Don't give mediocre backup-calibre infielders three year guaranteed contracts
5. A 38 year old knuckleballer is a 38 year old pitcher. Melky Cabrera will never hit .345 again, not even taking a bathtub full of pills.
6. Don't rush young pitchers, or Ricky Romero, up from the minors. Ever.
7. There are shortcuts to success, but don't play all your good cards to take one.

Hopefully, AA will be a better GM in the future. I'd like to benefit from the experience he has acquired making a few mistakes.

5 is about the only one I disagree with. I would do the Melky deal again in a heartbeat, his leg issues clearly lingered longer then expected and were a huge issue with his defence. At the plate you still have a guy that is very useful in our lineup. I wasn't expecting .345, but something around .300 would've been nice.

Dickey is the huge unknown, like Melky, were injuries the root of the problem? Or is this what we get? For the money owed I don't mind a #3 starter who can take the ball every 5 days. Clearly losing D'Arnaud with that shitebag JP playing hurts.

I think our minor system is getting better, I like the prospects we have. This year has definitely shown a lot about this team. Hopefully AA learns from his mistakes , like any good GM would.

[dagger]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/da ... g-culture/

Deja vu of the Blue Jays from last summer.

“You don’t want anyone to get overly frustrated with themselves or the game, (it’s) more just directing the right way to be professional,” said Janssen. “Not only carrying themselves on the field, but also their preparation and the responsibility of being a major-leaguer.”

To that end, Farrell’s comments at a charity seminar over the weekend in Boston and published by masslive.com Wednesday are particularly intriguing, given the train-wreck he oversaw with the Blue Jays a year ago.

Asked to discuss the differences between how pitchers are developed by his former and current clubs, he insinuated the Blue Jays don’t focus enough on the mental side of the game.

“We can have a seminar on this question – not just because it’s Toronto and Boston,” said Farrell. “There are very distinct differences and it starts, I think it starts, at the top. And the reason I say that: I found Toronto to be a scouting-based organization, which to me is on one plane, one-dimensional. You’re looking at tools. Here, it’s a player-development based system. It’s the paths of the individuals that are running the organization. And that’s not to be critical.

“We all know that there’s three different veins in this game that people advance (through): baseball operations, scouting, player development. Well, in the player-development vein, you’re going to look at things in three dimensions: mentally, physically, fundamentally to address and develop people, or develop an organization. I think as a scouting base, you go out and you evaluate the physical tools. And that’s kind of where it ends, or that’s the look at that time. That was my experience, that was my opinion.”

GM Alex Anthopoulos declined to discuss the matter when reached via email, but Farrell’s comments struck a nerve, in large part because of who they came from, but also because they spoke to some of the lapses that have kept the 2013 Blue Jays from leveraging their talent into more wins.

Whether a more sustained focus on the mental side of competing would have changed the results in some of the many, many games that got away on a play not made, a pitch not executed, a hit not delivered is open for debate.

Maybe it’s as simple as the Blue Jays just not being good enough. But what if they’re not breeding the mental tenacity needed to get to the next level? What if that’s partly why they don’t have that season where everything falls into place, like so many other teams do?

[Fairview4Life]

I guess the Red Sox stopped mentally developing their players last year, and started back up when Farrell was brought in.

[Michael Bradley]

I think AA promoting pitchers from Double-A to the Majors is definitely a developmental issue that needs to end. There should be a structure in place similar to the Rays where pitchers should get a certain amount of innings in the minors before being called up.

Other than that, I'm not sure what the Jays are doing wrong from a developmental standpoint, at least in comparison to other teams. AA inherited a pretty bad farm system, and has focused primarily on high school/international talent since taking over in 2010, so expecting any of his picks/signings to reach the Majors at this point (save for players like Stroman or Deck) is unreasonable.

The Jays focused on "tools" in the 80's and 90's when they were one of the best organizations in baseball. Tools do not always turn into talent, but when they do, you generally hit a home run (no pun intended).

[MikeM]

I think AA's philosophy has always been high risk in terms of trying to find superstar talent. That's basically his only focus in the draft and trades.

I remember quotes from him saying that you need to find star talent and you can fill the other supporting roles easily.

Problem is, this year, he couldn't even put replacement level players in half of our positions it seems. This team's core is nowhere near as bad as it looks. The problem is the literally below replacement level supplementation of the core from 2B, LF, C and 3B (before Lawrie).

And then the rotation.

Regarding our development. I think it's a bit dumb personally. AA always likes to bring up the fact that most guys have to get sent down again at least once in their career. It seems like he rushes prospects so that he can get that "sent back down" period out of the way quicker.

[Fairview4Life]

At the end of the day, the process not working well this year doesn't actually mean there is some fundamental flaw with it that requires beheadings and Fregosi hirings.

Sometimes when a plan doesn't come together it doesn't actually mean it was a **** plan.

[satyr9]

Farrell's totally right. The Jays never would've "developed" Villarreal the way he did the other night.

At the end of the day, the process not working well this year doesn't actually mean there is some fundamental flaw with it that requires beheadings and Fregosi hirings.

Sometimes when a plan doesn't come together it doesn't actually mean it was a **** plan.

Quoted for truthiness.

[tecumseh18]

I guess the Red Sox stopped mentally developing their players last year, and started back up when Farrell was brought in.

Farrell is the smartest, smoothest-talking idiot I've ever experienced in sports.*





* Except for Bryan Colangelo.

[Graham's Cracker]

Additionally, AA's 3 year window of contention has obviously been well thought out given
1) The affordable contracts that our most marketable commodities will be signed to through the process.
2) The timeline for our top prospects in the pipeline. Looks like most will be on the cusp at the end of this 3-year period.

[dagger]

here's something that would help: Move the Jays' Advanced A team to the California or Appalachian league. Florida at night is a fricking thunderstorm. The Dunedin BJs haven't played a game since Sunday because of rainouts. Sanchez has been waiting for a start since Sunday. It's been rainouts all summer, and amazingly, there hasn't been a decent tropical storm all summer either.

I'm not kidding. This is not the way to develop key young talent.

[flatjacket1]

I think Toronto is too tool based as well. Not agreeing with Farrel on everything, but we draft guys that look great (big frames, run fast, jump high) then put a bat in their hands and hope they pick things up.

[Schad]

here's something that would help: Move the Jays' Advanced A team to the California or Appalachian league. Florida at night is a fricking thunderstorm. The Dunedin BJs haven't played a game since Sunday because of rainouts. Sanchez has been waiting for a start since Sunday. It's been rainouts all summer, and amazingly, there hasn't been a decent tropical storm all summer either.

I'm not kidding. This is not the way to develop key young talent.

The Appy is actually rookie ball (it's where Bluefield plays). Of the other two high-A options, the Carolina League gets pretty much the same weather, I'd imagine, and the California League has PCL-like stat-distortion and pitcher-psyche-ruining tendencies. Not many good options all around, unfortunately.

[dagger]

here's something that would help: Move the Jays' Advanced A team to the California or Appalachian league. Florida at night is a fricking thunderstorm. The Dunedin BJs haven't played a game since Sunday because of rainouts. Sanchez has been waiting for a start since Sunday. It's been rainouts all summer, and amazingly, there hasn't been a decent tropical storm all summer either.

I'm not kidding. This is not the way to develop key young talent.

The Appy is actually rookie ball (it's where Bluefield plays). Of the other two high-A options, the Carolina League gets pretty much the same weather, I'd imagine, and the California League has PCL-like stat-distortion and pitcher-psyche-ruining tendencies. Not many good options all around, unfortunately.

Not sure the weather thing holds for Carolina. I mean obviously there are some large weather systems, but Florida seems to get a lot of late afternoon localized thunderstorm buildup. The GCL Blue Jays seem to get most of their games in because of of them are played at noon. At the same park, a few hours later, there is a deluge many nights. Probably the stumbling block with the Carolina League would be getting a team.

[Schad]

here's something that would help: Move the Jays' Advanced A team to the California or Appalachian league. Florida at night is a fricking thunderstorm. The Dunedin BJs haven't played a game since Sunday because of rainouts. Sanchez has been waiting for a start since Sunday. It's been rainouts all summer, and amazingly, there hasn't been a decent tropical storm all summer either.

I'm not kidding. This is not the way to develop key young talent.

The Appy is actually rookie ball (it's where Bluefield plays). Of the other two high-A options, the Carolina League gets pretty much the same weather, I'd imagine, and the California League has PCL-like stat-distortion and pitcher-psyche-ruining tendencies. Not many good options all around, unfortunately.

Not sure the weather thing holds for Carolina. I mean obviously there are some large weather systems, but Florida seems to get a lot of late afternoon localized thunderstorm buildup. The GCL Blue Jays seem to get most of their games in because of of them are played at noon. At the same park, a few hours later, there is a deluge many nights. Probably the stumbling block with the Carolina League would be getting a team.

Picked a couple teams to check, and the Carolina Mudcats (Cleveland's affiliate) have had seven games postponed; for the totality of last season, Dunedin had nine. In 2011, I count seven rainouts. This year seems to be a bit of an aberration.

And the bigger issue isn't getting a team, it's changing our whole minor league structure to accommodate. If we move out of the FSL, we'd need a new home for our extended spring training and rookie ball operations, as well; no chance that the GCL team would on its own be able to secure a lease in Dunedin.

So we'd need to find a new place to stick a rookie ball team, we'd need to find a place in the Carolina League, we'd need to sign an agreement somewhere for our player development centre and extended spring training (something that might be possible if we move our main ST site to Port Lucie). That's a massive amount of dislocation because it's been unusually rainy this summer.

[dagger]

Griffin on Farrell's comments

THE ESSAY
John Farrell offers opinion on Jays player development
Red Sox manager John Farrell spent two years with the Blue Jays with the eventual goal of managing the Red Sox. In that time he spent as an intern north of the border, he had the reputation of being somewhat of a micro-manager, paying much attention to all aspects of the organization, the coaching of hitters and pitchers, and maintaining a strong interest in player development.
Farrell, prior to joining the Red Sox as Terry Francona’s pitching coach in 2007, had spent several seasons running the farm system for the Indians, so he has strong opinions on the Jays’ weaknesses and expressed them Wednesday, as first reported by Boston-based website, www.massLive.com.
“We can have a seminar on this question, not just because it’s Toronto and Boston,” Farrell said. “There are very distinct differences and it starts, I think it starts, at the top. And the reason I say that: I found Toronto to be a scouting-based organization, which to me is on one plane, one-dimensional. You’re looking at tools. Here (in Boston), it’s a player-development-based system. It’s the paths of the individuals that are running the organization. And that’s not to be critical.
“We all know that there’s three different veins in this game that (prospects) advance (through): baseball operations, scouting, player development.
“Well, in the player-development vein, you’re going to look at things in three dimensions: mentally, physically, fundamentally to address and develop people, or develop an organization. I think as a scouting base, you go out and you evaluate the physical tools. And that’s kind of where it ends, or that’s the look at that time. That was my experience (in Toronto), that was my opinion.”
It’s rather obvious that Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos might not appreciate the comments from his former manager, a man who cavalierly leveraged his way out of town after two seasons, with a year left on his contract for his dream job of managing the Red Sox. But Farrell has some valid points.
The Jays have not been doing a good job of transitioning prime draft picks, especially pitchers, those in the Top 100 of the draft, into major leaguers, or even the upper levels of the minors.
There are MLB scouts and other close observers with knowledge and experience in the areas of scouting and player development that do not especially like the way the Jays treat their top kid pitchers. The team treats those young arms with kid gloves, assigning them low pitch counts early in their development, piggy-backing two starters per game and shutting them down after xx number of innings has been reached.
It does not seem to have helped the young Jay farmhands reach the majors in timely fashion and it has not, in many cases, managed to keep them healthy. But are the Red Sox that much better? Let’s examine the results of the four drafts overseen by Anthopoulos since replacing J.P. Ricciardi.
From 2010-13, the Blue Jays under Anthopoulos have selected 18 young pitchers among the Top 100 overall selections. Of the 18 pitchers, two did not sign (Tyler Beede and Phil Bickford) and five have risen as high as Double-A (Deck McGuire, Noah Syndergaard-Mets, Asher Wojciechowski-Astros, Justin Nicolino-Marlins and Marcus Stroman). Only McGuire and Stroman from among the 11 that remain in the system have risen as high as Double-A.
Over the same four-year period, the Red Sox have drafted nine pitchers in the Top 100 overall. Of those nine, Brandon Workman has already pitched in the majors, Anthony Ranaudo has reached Triple-A and two others have risen as high as Double-A. Around the majors, 17 pitchers selected in the Top 100 of the past four drats have reached the majors. The Red Sox lead the Jays 1-0 in that regard.
The Jays’ pitching staff at Triple-A Buffalo was built to compete in the minors, averaging over 30 years of age this season. Of the seven other pitchers called up to start games in the majors for the Jays, only 23-year-old Sean Nolin and 25-year-old Chad Jenkins can be considered prospects.
And then there’s the organization’s disturbing recent history of injuries and arm woes. Anthopoulos and his staff continue to try and find the answers.

[satyr9]

While I won't totally discount Farrell's opinion - much as I'd like to - can we please agree there is zero basis for any kind of statistical comparison like the one above? Regardless of development vs. scouting, drafting **** high-schoolers means they take a while and have a high bust rate. So Workman is at the show and Anthony Ranaudo has already reached AAA, wowowowowowowowowowow. 5 years from now someone can do this kind of quantitative analysis, but this is the height of absurdity. A year ago, it was all wow, what a great system, look at the big 3 coming. So they got dealt for ready stuff, but no one seemed to be questioning the development curve/path of AA's early picks then, I don't see what's changed in that regard now.

All that being said, we can bag on Farrell and I think he's mostly full of it, but I'd love a well-articulated response from AA, rather than the blunt "that's ridiculous" we're likely to get. It is insanely early to be expecting results at the big league level out of AA's drafting strategy, but the injuries, the high profile failures of the guys here before AA (Jenkins, Deck), I doubt they can explain it, but a big answer could be quite interesting.

[Avenger]

Essay? ok

Have you guys heard of the Tom Friedman Op Ed Generator? Someone should do something similar with Griffin, the LOL value would be through the fricken roof.