Should Riley Have Kept Odom and Butler?

[Big NBA Fan]

Hi everyone,

I am just a huge fan of the NBA in general and I just wanted to get your thoughts about the Shaq trade in 2004.

In hindsight, should Pat Riley have kept Odom and Butler instead of trading for Shaq? Shaq only gave Miami two productive years before he eventually forced his way out, while Butler became an All-Star and Odom played a huge role in helping the Lakers win back-to-back championships and make the Finals 3 times.

Do you also think Riley regrets making the Shaq trade?

I personally think Pat, looking back, should have kept Lamar and Caron. All he needed was one quality Center and they would have been set for years with the core of Wade/Odom/Butler/Haslem.

Also, Shaq ran out one of the best coaches in the NBA in Stan van Gundy.

What do you think?

[Heat_Fan_87]

No. We would have won more than 1 ring if wade and shaq were healthy. I think it was a great trade. Shaq is a top 10 player of all time imo.

[Big NBA Fan]

There's no doubting that Shaq is a better player all time than Caron and Lamar, but he was starting to decline after his first year, and then gave Miami NOTHING after 2006.

Let's not forget how incredibly disruptive he became in the locker-room towards the end of his time in Miami. At-least Caron and Lamar were good locker-room guys in Miami.

- Running out Stan, calling Wade 'wonderboy' behind his back, nearly fighting Riley in practice, refusing to cooperate with the medical staff, and eventually demanding a buy-out.

I personally think Pat should have kept Odom and Butler.

[FlashFlare]

You say Shaq gave nothing after '06. True. But with Shaq in '05 and '06, got to the ECF (should've been Finals if Wade didn't injure those ribs ... sigh) and won the championship in '06. Highly doubt we win in '06 with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom.

EDIT: Actually not true. Shaq got us Marion, who got us JO, which in turn, got us Chris Bosh and LeBron James. That was a good trade that Riley would make over and over and over again.

[Big NBA Fan]

I do agree that short-term, the Heat won the trade, no doubt. But long-term, Odom gave the Lakers more than Shaq gave the Heat.

Caron became a terrific player with the Wizards and Odom was a huge part of the Lakers making the Finals 3 years in a row.

I do agree that LeBron and Bosh probably never join the Heat if Odom and Butler were never traded, but I do feel the Heat just needed a decent Center to be contenders for several years.

Thanks for the response and I am looking forward to reading what more have to say on this topic.

[NBA82]

A core of Odom, Butler, and Wade would have condemned us to basketball purgatory, also known as Atlanta Hawkdom. Good but not great.

These days, I don't think Riley has a heck of a lot of basketball-related regrets. Even losing in the '11 Finals served its purpose.

[Vertical Limit]

Long term Odom gave more to the Lakers than Shaq gave to us? No.

And this is coming from someone who despises Shaq for taking out his knife on Wade during his worst season. I wanted that fatass out of here so bad and I don't even want his number retired because of his fake injury and his moaning/bad mouthing just because things were going bad for once in his career. He will get it retired though.

With all that said Shaq brought two of the best seasons ever by the Heat, and was a major factor as to why we got the first ring but he was a roleplayer at that point. Wade and Alonzo played a bigger factor. I think the 04-05 Heat would roll over any of the "Big 3" teams we've had so far, easily.

[Sgt P]

I had to admit I did not like the trade, at first. I loved the squad we had but we got to ECF finals and won in 06 with Shaq, so no regrets here and Da Don does not make mistakes you can't win them all but as the Don as proven you can 3peat. Heat are Back2Back Champs and have won 3 titles in 7 years with a chance to 3peat.

I think the Shaq trade showed the organization what it took to win. The trade for Shaq proved you could win but you needed a better solid roster with multiple players as the Blue Print, no more 1-2 punch.

[truthiness]

I do agree that short-term, the Heat won the trade, no doubt. But long-term, Odom gave the Lakers more than Shaq gave the Heat.

Caron became a terrific player with the Wizards and Odom was a huge part of the Lakers making the Finals 3 years in a row.

I do agree that LeBron and Bosh probably never join the Heat if Odom and Butler were never traded, but I do feel the Heat just needed a decent Center to be contenders for several years.

Thanks for the response and I am looking forward to reading what more have to say on this topic.

I'd say:
- short term: Heat win
- medium term: Lakers win
- long term: Heat win

At the time I wanted the Heat to keep their core. I didnt like Shaq. But considering how hard it is to win a title, the 2006 title makes the trade a win for the Heat.

Just like if the Nets get one title out of their current roster, it makes all the money spent and the mortgaged future worth it. Sure, 5 years from now they will probably suck, but a title would make up for everything.

[HIF]

how many pointless threads can we have today?

[Durins Baynes]

No. The Heat would have had less bad years prior to 2011, but no titles, which probably precludes Lebron and Bosh coming.

[truthiness]

how many pointless threads can we have today?

How many useless posts can you post whining about how pointless other people's posts are.

Do you ever get off your incredibly high horse? Do you use a ladder for that?

[Sgt P]

how many pointless threads can we have today?

How many useless posts can you post whining about how pointless other people's posts are.

Do you ever get off your incredibly high horse? Do you use a ladder for that?

Never underestimate people.

[Rodrizzle]

You do that trade 100 times out of 100. The other part you miss from that trade is getting rid of Brian Grants contact

[Ratchet_Rio]

Coming off back to back ships this is what we're discussing

[Flash3]

Regret making that trade for Shaq? WTH?

[Heat_Fan_87]

Coming off back to back ships this is what we're discussing

And favorites to win next year...not much else going on lol

[Big NBA Fan]

I probably should have asked a different question:

1) If The Big Three was never formed, should Riley have kept Odom/Butler and just tried to acquire a quality big-man by trading Eddie Jones?

I think when the Heat traded for Shaq, they expected more than just two good years from him and they had no idea he would force his way out so quickly and become such a disruption in the locker-room.

They would have gotten six very good years with the core of Wade/Butler/Odom as opposed to just two good years out of Shaq, who never lived up to that huge contract extension he got in 2005 and became a bad influence off the court.

[FlashFlare]

Six very good years out of a Wade/Butler/Odom and a treadmill team destined for first round exits as opposed to two good years with Shaq and one championship..... yeah I still make the Shaq trade 100 times out of 100

[ndnow]

Yeah results speak for themselves, you can lose a trade and have that fortune in the future change the outcome to be positive. As that team before the trade was probably my favorite Heat team of all time, the trade ended up getting us to this point where we have won back to back championships.