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Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov

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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#341 » by Nebula1 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:38 pm

driese0824 wrote:
Nebula1 wrote:
emunney wrote:My point is that you used something false to make a point and now are ranting about something totally different.


:lol:



Sounds like Butler wanted/asked for the trade and both teams were willing to do so. My only problem with the deal is the few minutes Giannis was maybe going to see have likely dried up. And since we don't utilize the D team whatsoever, I guess we'll see him in 2014-15.

Project or not, I'd rather play guys we draft instead of burying them.

is that so bad its give s him a year to learn the NBA,work on his game and add strength plus butler can teach him some things along the way.Giannis will get minutes not sure how many but if drew thinks he derserves minutes he will get osme.I don't wanna rush a 19 year old and throw him to the wolves until he has some form of game,as much as the buck fans wanna see him,mo ome thought he was going to play this year not just for us but for any team.He is a very raw rookie one that could learn a lot his first year by watching learning and showing what he can do in his limited time on the floor



No, in theory it's fine and I have no problem with Butler on the roster. However, it's Butler AND Delfino, when only 1 of the 2 is really necessary. By having them both, I suspect what scrap minutes may have been available are now all but gone to our usual short-term stop-gap veterans.

Unless he beats out Middleton, I suppose. But I'm from the school of playing to learn. Get on the floor and play. Practice and mentoring only gets you so far and neither are the same as true playing time.

And one of my biggest issues with the Milwaukee Bucks is the total absence of D League usage when we should be all over that. If the D system isn't adequate THEN MAKE IT ADEQUATE by investing in good coaches and utilize the system. If you're going to draft a project player, then it makes sense to play him either on an NBA court or a D League court.

1 Draft Project Player
2 Don't Play Project Player
3 Profit
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#342 » by step3profit » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:39 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Yeah, I don't see a guy like Drew wanting to lose one game more than he has to next year. Drew is 55 years old. He's making his coin now on the reputation of getting average guys to over-achieve. That's how he got the Bucks job. He's not going to suddenly give Giannis 20 minutes a night to develop unless Giannis is killing the other guys in practice. Butler is going to get as many minutes as his body will handle.


On the other hand, if Giannis isn't killing guys in practice, then we're probably screwed long term anyway.

Interestingly, he's still listed on bucks.com as a 'guard forward', so if we're lucky he seems some backup SG minutes.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#343 » by engelmartin » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:41 pm

emunney wrote:
Yeah, if he has an awesome year due to playing a ton more minutes, we'll offer him 2/18 to stay.

So, about that hometown discount? :razz:
KnicksGod wrote:Middleton probably the most underrated player in NBA History
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#344 » by JimmyTheKid » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:44 pm

emunney wrote:
JimmyTheKid wrote:
Buckrageous wrote:Ahhhh yes! The "we weren't wrong about Lebron, Lebron just changed" argument. I love that one. It's very hard for people to just admit they were wrong. That is a tremendous example of it.


:lol:

I always loved that argument, too.


I would love for either of you to return to the point Buckrageous made, which was that Woj for two years claimed that LeBron would never win a championship. I would accept one unqualified sentence as evidence of that.

Otherwise, I don't think there's a case to be made that LeBron hasn't become a lot mentally tougher or that he hasn't expanded his skill set since he was younger. I watched him fold like a cheap tent in Boston in 2010. His game 5 was the most disappointed I've ever been in a basketball player precisely because he was and had been the undeniably (to my mind) best player in the game for years already. And he had no post game then. Now he's arguably the best post player in the league. You two are honestly making the claim that LeBron hasn't grown?


Oh he's grown alright. Most players get better as they enter their prime. But he was already the best player on the planet when he was supposedly "folding like a tent." The only claim I'm making is that "The Decision" made bat-sh*t-crazy-looney-toons out of too many otherwise reasonable people who get paid to talk about basketball. Not to mention many of my friends, co-workers, and people on this forum. It was fine to hate "The Decision." I did, too. (although I was over it in a week) It was even ok to turn on Lebron and make every team that played Miami "your favorite team." But to downplay Lebron's talent, like so many did, was beyond ridiculous.

"Not a clutch gene in his body"
"Doesn't have the make up of a champion"
"will never win a title"
"stat padder"

:lol:
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#345 » by LUKE23 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:49 pm

Is there any way the Bucks don't lead the league in 3 point attempts this season?
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#346 » by raferfenix » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:51 pm

My main problem with the 'vets to mentor the young players' strategy is that I'm not convinced our young guys are so worth mentoring.

Henson might not even be a good fit next to Sanders. Giannis could be a nothing. Few are predicting Knight will be more than a dependable starter at best. Ersan could be Arsen.

An Evan Turner trade would at least be somewhat better for us youth-wise. And maybe something like that still happens, because our front court surely doesn't make much sense at the moment.

As currently constructed I don't see Udoh or Middleton doing much for us in particular. Might as well try to package them for a better prospect at any position.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#347 » by Nebula1 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:53 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Is there any way the Bucks don't lead the league in 3 point attempts this season?



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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#348 » by emunney » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:53 pm

They should be up there, but the Knicks and Rockets still have their team philosophies geared strongly toward 3s.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#349 » by UWM_Brew_Buck » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:54 pm

We gave up crap for a cap space taking and young pt taking corpse. Not a fan of the deal we could have used the cap space at the deadline to acquire an asset. Also it signifies that our FO is still fighting for the 8th seed but that is pure speculation. Glad we didn't give up any assets even not so valuable ones like Udoh or a 2nd.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#350 » by raferfenix » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:58 pm

The Bucks barely have anyone who can take it to the rack and finish, so a season full of chucking seems eminently possible.

3-point shooting is at a premium in the league and we clearly have an excess of gunners.

Maybe Neal or Delfino will have at least neutral value -- if trading for Butler 'frees' us up (in Kohl's world) to dump longer term salary that could be cool at least.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#351 » by LUKE23 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:02 pm

Yeah, those two teams should be up there, but I also think Houston slows down a bit from last years pace with Dwight, and gets more touches inside. Although he also opens up spacing for 3's. Should be interesting.

I do think the Bucks will play a pretty fast pace and we honestly have no post game in our starting five and our rim attacking ability is also well below average. I see us chucking all day.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#353 » by 2Mas » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:04 pm

Knight-Ridnour-Wolters
Mayo-Neal-Middleton
Butler-Giannis-Delfino
Ilyasova-Henson-Udoh
Sanders-Zaza-Raduljica

Not for nothing but people expect Mayo Knight Sanders to continue to get better. If Sanders turns into an allstar, Mayo can slightly improve his scoring by a bucket a game & become effiecent w/ B.Knight taking another step forward, you guys have a good base. Ilyasova & Butler as 4th & 5th best players in your line up is a good team.

I think honestly think you guys are in playoff contention I could see you guys getting the 8th seed.

Just sucks for a Bucks fan cause there's no direction. I like the team though hope you guys make the playoffs. Plus it's good for a Celtics fan lol. Cavs Bucks Wiz Pistons Hawks Raps should all be better. Hopefully the Magic & Bobcats can have a better records than us too. superstar here we come!
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#354 » by InsideOut » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:04 pm

Attention all passengers....for your convenience we have paid to have some chairs moved to the lido deck.


At the end of the day it's just another meaningless trade. Yes, I'd rather have move cap space for a potential deal later but when was the last time Hammond made a meaningful trade with or without cap space. Yes, I'd rather we just play the youth all the minutes but we know a Kohl owned team won't do that. So we end up with a player that won't help or hurt much one way or the other and the things we gave up (cap space / playing time) would likely end up being meaningless anyway.

Like almost all the moves this trade will leave us stuck in the no-man-land of 34ish wins and a late lotto pick where we end up with another project with upside. On draft day fans will see him as having the potential to be an all-star but in reality we’d be lucky to have the guy just end up being a quality starter. You know, just like how 22 of the past 25 seasons have ended.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#355 » by WiscoKing13 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:10 pm

Love it. Stealth tank is still on abd we gave up nothing

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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#356 » by paulpressey25 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:11 pm

raferfenix wrote:My main problem with the 'vets to mentor the young players' strategy is that I'm not convinced our young guys are so worth mentoring.


We need to highlight this quote.

That's the problem here. It would seem as though our front office has snowed over our owner that we are stacked, stacked I tell you with young talent. And all we need are the next three years for that talent to blossom. In the meantime, let's bring in good vets to mentor them and help us get that 8th seed again.

All of this garbage is basically predicated on Giannis becoming Paul George. If he does, great. But most sane GM's and owners wouldn't bet on the 15th pick turning into Paul George. Further, those other teams would say, "Great, let's tank and get our James Harden in the 2014 draft to go with our Paul George, then we become a true long-term contender"

Us? We put all our eggs in the unlikely basket Giannis actually becomes Paul George.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#357 » by raferfenix » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:12 pm

We only make the 8th seed if Sanders, Mayo, Ilyasova, and Knight improve -- at least consistency wise.

That's a pretty big indictment of our low ceiling approach to this season.

Even if all of our many 'ifs' work out it still will suck.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#358 » by Badgerlander » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:13 pm

Hawks were 5th in the league last year in 3PA (Bucks 11th), but Ersan took more 3s than Smith in less minutes and we have no Horford.
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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#359 » by Badgerlander » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:18 pm

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Spoiler:

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Re: Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov 

Post#360 » by LUKE23 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:18 pm

We were 11th last year, but added Knight, Mayo, Neal, Delfino, Ridnour, and Butler. Lots of jumpshooters there.

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