Trade Thread (REVENGE OF THE NERDS II: NERDS IN PARADISE)

[EvanZ]

I'd prefer to leave the 3pt shooting to Curry and Thompson and keep Lee in the low post or mid-range. He's our only low post scorer and best rebounder, i don't like the idea of positioning him further away from the basket.

If he could hit the corner 3, though, think of the floor spacing. Especially if you have him as a small ball 5. You put Barnes at the 4 with Curry, Klay, and Iggy.

If the center comes out to defend Lee, then you leave the lane open for Iggy or Barnes to drive. If the 4 comes out, then who defends Barnes?

It could create all kinds of matchup problems, at least, on the offensive end. There's no way teams could defend that lineup with slow-footed centers.

[floppymoose]

Four 3-pt-shooters on the arc is hard to defend, but i'm not sure that 5 is much harder than 4. with 5, if all 5 are out at the arc at once, two are close enough together that rotations can bother the shot. meanwhile the opposing center defends the drives. of course, not every center can do that. but some of the guys who can't go out to the arc can still defend the drive pretty well.

[whocurrz]

It could create all kinds of matchup problems, at least, on the offensive end. There's no way teams could defend that lineup with slow-footed centers.

Bingo. See your 2013 NBA champions, the Miami Heat. Having Bosh who was a 3 point threat pretty much single-handedly won the Heat the championship as Vogel and Pop had to take out their C's which lead to close wins against each. Pacer's lost a game because of this and so did the Spurs which was the difference in both series and gave Lebron a lane to the hoop.

[watch1958]

but Miami had James to drive the lane after everyone else spread out. who does that for the Warriors?

[EvanZ]

but Miami had James to drive the lane after everyone else spread out. who does that for the Warriors?

Iggy or Barnes. Didn't I say that?

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[Left*My*Heart]

Nellie ball...

[oaktownwarriors87]

Having Bosh who was a 3 point threat pretty much single-handedly won the Heat the championship...

Chris Bosh?

He's a terrible 3 point shooter. He's a career 28.8% 3 point shooter and he shot 28.4% this year. He didn't even make a 3 pointer in the Finals.

[Mylie10]

What won the Heat the Championship was Bosh grabbing that rebound and Ray Allen hitting the shot of a lifetime. Had either Kawhi Leonard or Ginobili made one more of their free throws, the Heat would have lost. Tracy McGrady was already tasting champagne when they couldn't secure that rebound.

[whocurrz]

Having Bosh who was a 3 point threat pretty much single-handedly won the Heat the championship...

Chris Bosh?

He's a terrible 3 point shooter. He's a career 28.8% 3 point shooter and he shot 28.4% this year. He didn't even make a 3 pointer in the Finals.

Well if I was coaching I wouldn't have taken out Hibbert or Duncan to guard against that shot, but the truth is that both Vogel and Pops did and it led to two very close wins in close series for the Heat. The threat of the three pointer forced these coaches to go smaller with their defensive lineups.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Having Bosh who was a 3 point threat pretty much single-handedly won the Heat the championship...

Chris Bosh?

He's a terrible 3 point shooter. He's a career 28.8% 3 point shooter and he shot 28.4% this year. He didn't even make a 3 pointer in the Finals.

Well if I was coaching I wouldn't have taken out Hibbert or Duncan to guard against that shot, but the truth is that both Vogel and Pops did and it led to two very close wins in close series for the Heat. The threat of the three pointer forced these coaches to go smaller with their defensive lineups.

Unless they had a big lead Duncan played most of the 4th quarter/over time. They also didn't do very much adjusting for Chris Bosh, it was for LeBron James.

If Chris Bosh's 3 point shooting won the championship for the Heat then Rajon Rondos 3 point shooting won it for the Celtics.

[whocurrz]

Chris Bosh?

He's a terrible 3 point shooter. He's a career 28.8% 3 point shooter and he shot 28.4% this year. He didn't even make a 3 pointer in the Finals.

Well if I was coaching I wouldn't have taken out Hibbert or Duncan to guard against that shot, but the truth is that both Vogel and Pops did and it led to two very close wins in close series for the Heat. The threat of the three pointer forced these coaches to go smaller with their defensive lineups.

Unless they had a big lead Duncan played most of the 4th quarter/over time. They also didn't do very much adjusting for Chris Bosh, it was for LeBron James.

If Chris Bosh's 3 point shooting won the championship for the Heat then Rajon Rondos 3 point shooting won it for the Celtics.

Although my first statement was absolutely wrong (sorry had been traveling for like 15 hours) and really only a factor that won them games against the Pacers and Heat, I still maintain that the Heat having their C be a guy who can hit a 3 opened up the lane and forced the coaches to take their best interior defenders and rebounders off the court. I don't think that Vogel pulled Hibbert to prevent Lebron from scoring since Lebron's splits were ridiculous that game with Hibbert on and off the floor. Especially his points in the paint. And although Bosh is not a great three point shooter he has hit that shot on a couple occasions late in games to win the game for the Heat or ice it so the threat was most likely something in Vogel's mind, especially with 2 seconds left where a jumpshot is the most likely shot attempt.

[Onus]

Bosh as a C shooting close to 30% from 3 pt range is decent. But it's more his mid-range game that he brings that opens up the floor for that team. If he was playing pf though with a real center his mid-range game wouldn't be as lethal as it was throughout 2013, which is why hibbert and duncan were both taken out down the stretch of games.

If you want lee playing center sure bring up that bosh played center.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Bosh as a C shooting close to 30% from 3 pt range is decent. But it's more his mid-range game that he brings that opens up the floor for that team. If he was playing pf though with a real center his mid-range game wouldn't be as lethal as it was throughout 2013, which is why hibbert and duncan were both taken out down the stretch of games.

If you want lee playing center sure bring up that bosh played center.

Even if you want to round up and call Bosh a 30% 3 point shooter, that's still terrible.

And I don't understand where this idea that Indiana and San Antonio benched Hibbert/Duncan in order to adjust to Bosh? They both closed out close games.

Hibbert was benched for Hasburough for the last 19 seconds of game 4. Indiana had a 7 point lead, LeBron James fouled out, and they wanted a better FT shooter. Other than that he closed out the games or the bench unit did.

Duncan was benched for the last 8 seconds of game 6. That's because Diaw is better in the pick in role against James/Wade, not because of Bosh. Other than that he closed out the games or the bench unit did.

The whole idea that "hibbert and duncan were both taken out down the stretch of games" is totally false.

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[watch1958]

The whole idea that "hibbert and duncan were both taken out down the stretch of games" is totally false.

Hey, it sounded like a clever take when it came out of his mouth, why should facts get in the way?

[Onus]

Idk but it was quite a distinct point in my memory that hibbert was taken out in one of the games and lebron hit the game winning lay up on paul george. Then game 6 of the finals duncan was taken out and bosh grabs 2 offensive rebounds that turn into 3s. Don't let those facts get in the way.

They weren't taken out of multiple games but taken out a singular game during the series, in which they lost because they were taken out. the opposing coach was scared of these lumbering centers trying to close out on the perimeter and took them out for quicker players to close out.

I should have clarified games meant 1 game a piece. But I thought people on a basketball forum would actually have watched the NBA playoffs.

Let me also add that duncan was in fact taken out multiple times against us because he couldn't close out to curry on the pnr

[oaktownwarriors87]

Idk but it was quite a distinct point in my memory that hibbert was taken out in one of the games and lebron hit the game winning lay up on paul george. Then game 6 of the finals duncan was taken out and bosh grabs 2 offensive rebounds that turn into 3s. Don't let those facts get in the way.

They weren't taken out of multiple games but taken out a singular game during the series, in which they lost because they were taken out. the opposing coach was scared of these lumbering centers trying to close out on the perimeter and took them out for quicker players to close out.

I should have clarified games meant 1 game a piece. But I thought people on a basketball forum would actually have watched the NBA playoffs.

So you have ONE example of Duncan being taken out for a couple of seconds and ONE example of Hibbert being taken out for a couple of seconds.


Now lets go back to the original point:

Bosh as a C shooting close to 30% from 3 pt range is decent. But it's more his mid-range game that he brings that opens up the floor for that team... which is why hibbert and duncan were both taken out down the stretch of games.

Do you really think they took them out because of Bosh, or because LeBron was going to go 1v1 and they wanted a better help defender on the perimeter?

I would also like to point out that the one time this happened to each San Antonio and Indiana they both lost. Lebron got a layup without Hibbert and Bosh got a rebound without Duncan. Both teams were highly scrutinized for taking out their big men.

Let me also add that duncan was in fact taken out multiple times against us because he couldn't close out to curry on the pnr

Game 1 TD was physically ill and the Warriors had a big lead, so they benched TD
Game 2 With 59 seconds left Pop sat all the starters because the Dubs had an 11 point lead
Game 3 SA had a 9 point lead with 34 seconds left, so Pop benched the starters
Game 4 TD played every minute of OT. He did however sit out the last possession of regulation
Game 5 TD sat with an 18 point lead and 1:13 left in the game
Game 6 TD was terrible and sat with 4:29 left and a 1 point lead. Warriors played an Ezeli/Landry front court.

[Onus]

Do you really think they took them out because of Bosh, or because LeBron was going to go 1v1 and they wanted a better help defender on the perimeter?

I would also like to point out that the one time this happened to each San Antonio and Indiana they both lost. Lebron got a layup without Hibbert and Bosh got a rebound without Duncan. Both teams were highly scrutinized for taking out their big men.

Wait so who's a better help defender on lebron? Hibbert or West, Duncan or Splitter/Diaw? I assume if you're worried about lebron's drives you'd want a rim protector out there, if you're worried about him passing to an open 3 point shot you'd put the better help defender on the perimeter.

So you can answer your own quetion.

Game 1 TD was physically ill and the Warriors had a big lead, so they benched TD
Game 2 With 59 seconds left Pop sat all the starters because the Dubs had an 11 point lead
Game 3 SA had a 9 point lead with 34 seconds left, so Pop benched the starters
Game 4 TD played every minute of OT. He did however sit out the last possession of regulation
Game 5 TD sat with an 18 point lead and 1:13 left in the game
Game 6 TD was terrible and sat with 4:29 left and a 1 point lead. Warriors played an Ezeli/Landry front court.

So they still took duncan out down the stretch a few times, even though i didn't specify that they were taking duncan out down the stretch against us. There weren't many close games, but still they took duncan out of the game because he couldn't/wouldn't get out in time to stop Curry's 3pt shot after a pick.

[whocurrz]

How can you say they took out Hibbert to put a better help defender on Lebron? Lebron's offensive splits were ridiculous in that game 1 up until that point. In the few minutes Lebron was on the court without Hibbert he like tripled his points in the paint. There was 2 seconds left on the inbound play which is a likely jumpshot scenario if Paul George doesn't overplay Lebron. Bosh has shown the ability to hit game winners from deep mod range and 3s in the clutch so they opted to cover that shot instead of protect the paint they covered Bosh. I don't think they take Hibbert off if the opposing C is Bogut or Dwight. However it is not possible to prove either so I guess we'll just agree to disagree

[old rem]

Off seeing just a couple of Pre-season games.....I don't yet get a feel for how the "differnces" add up. Bogut certainly looks more mobile,active. He and Lee can make GSW a plus rebounding. Early look....Klay and Lee seem to have their "in season form and Klay is looking more "all round" Iggy does force some questionable shos but his "all round " game is a plus. Douglas has some rough edges but can pop a 3 and looks VERY GOOD as a defensive pressure guy. Speights...is hard to figure. I know he's got talents but it's been a mixed thing...same for JO....he's been okay but rather low impact. Dedmon shows flashes and Kuzmic hasn't been visible...it could be interesting to see which prevails because it is likely an Either/Or. Nedovic.....so far I didn't see anything NBA in his few minutes so....I can just hope there's something else to come. Seth C.....is interesting. He might bump Nedovic ...if just pushing NN off to Santa Cruz. I EXPECT a big year from Barnes but these games only showed a tease,a couple highlights and spaces where he was out of synch. So..... LIKE the "on paper" roster for right now, but the thing is that who you think player X is...often ain't how it goes. The W's are coming off an impressive finish and a good year and would SEEM to have scored some improvements. However....we have not yet seen that play out on the floor. In the second half of the Kings game the whole "team play" began to shape up" and that's good but I guess it will take a few games before I see the real status. Much trade talk has been about Lee or Lee and Klay or Barnes. Generally Lee is almost regarded as as much a "bad contract" as an All Star and of minor value. Well....in Lee I see consistanvcy, stability. We have guys that blow hot and cold. Lee is damn steady. That and he's a rebounder.. He seems in good shape and a tad quicker on D.

ALWAYS you stay alert to opportunity to WIN a trade but GSW has no need to lurch into some desperate thing or do do a "lateral" move. Wait for the WINNING deal.

[Left*My*Heart]

I don't see Seth beating out Nedovic.