Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov

[GrandAdmiralDan]

4. Woelfel nailed our last 3 major moves. I think people forget that just cause trades don't happen, it doesn't mean that weren't talked about. He's by far the best Bucks guy and its not even his main job.

Agreed. I don't understand why as many people in this forum rip on him as they do...

[InsideOut]

In so many of these trades the people that like them state the fact that the Bucks gave up garbage. I wonder if they realize that the reason we gave up garbage is because Hammond has brought so much of it in. In 6 months when we trade Butler for garbage we'll listen to how the deal was good because we only gave up garbage (Butler). Seriously, look at all the trades where we traded our garbage…do we ever get a great long term piece back? You can't build a contender or even a second round team when all you're doing is trading garbage for garbage. That is the definition of moves that are described as shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[driese0824]

I'm gonna be honest: I like the trade.

I like the trade as well. Everybody on here are really over valuing our young guys. Giannis isn't close to being ready. He still needs to balk up and get used to playing agaisnt nba-level talent. He can do that in practice. Butler, imo, is the perfect mentor for the kid. as for kris, people need to get it through their brains that he's not

Fans know that but in order to tank they want an unproven guy at the 3 or a rookie who is 2 years away from being ready.They don't care if Middleton stinks or not they want the bucks to tank

[engelmartin]

What's funny is this roster is pretty darn good if we just had one alpha guy who could break down D's and distribute. Imagine putting Chris Paul in this lineup. We would immediately be a 50+ win team and probably the second best team in the East.

Here is the starting lineup of the Nets, the presumed #4 seed in the East:

PG: DWill
SG: Joe Johnson
SF: Paul Pierce
PF: Garnett
C: Brook Lopez

Bench:
Kirilenko
Jason Terry
Blatche

Tell me how in the world, even with CP# or similar, we could compete with this team?? And its doubtful they win 2 playoff series.

Easy: Johnson, Pierce and Garnett are old and declining, and Johnson is one of (if not THE) most overrated player in the league. Garnett still has a lot in the tank but they're already talking about him only playing every other night out of fear his body will break down. Plus, is he even fast enough to guard the PF spot on a nightly basis any more? Brook Lopez is still overrated in my book, regardless of the numbers. But, I said the same thing about Hibbert until last year, so I'm willing to be wrong about this. Terry is also much older and crappier than the Terry from his Dallas days.

Still, they look way better than us, but the ostensible value of these players based on name recognition doesn't jibe with reality. And I think they're pretty comparable to the Knicks, even with those moves. Maybe this is the year where DWill stops playing like a *insert insult*, though, I guess. But if you give us CP3, who knows. Way too hypothetical for me.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Even though I like the trade, its funny to see how the Bucks are promoting him.

#accomplished winner
#all star
#homecoming

GTFO. Its nothing more than a nice story about a local kid who upgrades the SF position. The extra nonsense is not needed. Bucks fans are smarter than that.

What are they saying that's not true?

Should they say things like

#Talent Dropped Off After ACL Tear
#Arrested 15 Times By Age of 15
#Just Stands In Corner And Shoots Threes

[paulpressey25]

Let's do our family tree again. We started draft day 2011 with the following assets:

Bogut
#10 pick in 2011 draft (was to be Klay Thompson)
Tobias Harris

Now we have left from that:
Udoh
Caron Butler on his last legs

Bravo John Hammond. Bravo.

[Nebula1]

I'm gonna be honest: I like the trade.

I like the trade as well. Everybody on here are really over valuing our young guys. Giannis isn't close to being ready. He still needs to balk up and get used to playing agaisnt nba-level talent. He can do that in practice. Butler, imo, is the perfect mentor for the kid. as for kris, people need to get it through their brains that he's not tobias.

How do you know he can't play? I'd rather give him a year of real experience by playing and get dealt a high draft pick.

Phoenix went to other way, dumped Butler and are openly playing their young core and btw, Archie Goodwin just turned 19. You don't see the Suns burying Goodwin and yet they will come out ahead when they draft top 5 in 2014.

[smauss]

My opinion of this deal a solid, "Meh" Again, as a player I don't think he helps, but if he can give us some solid minutes, and mentor our youngsters I'm fine with it. He's expiring (I believe) so he won't hurt our cap situation. I don't think he gets us any more wins so that's fine. Yeah, a solid "Meh!"

[EastSideBucksFan]

http://journaltimes.com/sports/basketba ... f887a.html

Sidenote in the story, Woelfel says Monta & Jennings didn't talk to each other last year at all. Said he talked to a player on the team who was in the league 15 years (which had to be Pryzbilla) said it was the worst locker room he'd ever seen. Dalembert, Gooden, Monta, Jennings were all major problems and then we've heard previous stories about Sanders stepping up to Monta in the playoffs so it was just a nightmare.

Caron Butler was brought in as an enforcer on the court and more an enforcer in the locker room. Gonna be a great veteran presence chemistry glue guy. I am liking this move more and more.

Said there's been problems in the locker room 3-4 years now (all coincides with Jennings...huh?) and it's a good thing the Bucks just cleaned house. Even guys like Moute became a problem and it affected guys like JJ, Dunleavy and Sanders in a negative way.

Forget the issues about our city, players don't want to come here because the locker room is awful. I can certainly understand the whole bringing in Luke, Carlos & Zaza. I know many won't agree with it, but I can understand their thinking. Try to develop the good young talent you have by surrounding them with good supporting veterans instead of total sh!~theads.

[yuedar]

Even though I like the trade, its funny to see how the Bucks are promoting him.

#accomplished winner
#all star
#homecoming

GTFO. Its nothing more than a nice story about a local kid who upgrades the SF position. The extra nonsense is not needed. Bucks fans are smarter than that.

No, No they are not... atleast the ones here are tho. I got people I grew up with on facebook cheering and singing bucks praises right now because of this stupid move.

[CanadaBucks]

Even though I like the trade, its funny to see how the Bucks are promoting him.

#accomplished winner
#all star
#homecoming

GTFO. Its nothing more than a nice story about a local kid who upgrades the SF position. The extra nonsense is not needed. Bucks fans are smarter than that.

No, No they are not... atleast the ones here are tho. I got people I grew up with on facebook cheering and singing bucks praises right now because of this stupid move.

Doesn't the fact that they are on Facebook tell you something?

[Nebula1]

It's amusing to blame the locker room and while I'm sure it was bad, I think it's fair the players recognize poor leadership coming from management.

Everybody here recognizes that Kohl and Co. have no plan so when a player gets annoyed while working for them, it's somehow not cool. Like these guys have to be good soldiers regardless.

So expect this locker room to deteriorate as well because it all starts at the top. Even with a crew of 'happy to be here guys,' they'll still recognize they play for a **** franchise.

Just wait for Larry to get disgruntled and start looking over the fence as his contract nears its end.

[WiscoKing13]

meh didn't give up anything and really doesn't move the needle. Also doesn't kill future cap space.

Eliminate the Delfino/Zaza/neal deals and i'd love this summer

[Nate Rocks]

He has an expiring contract and he wants to be here. How many veteran guys did you have last year that were a positive force in the locker room, could give you minutes and wanted to be here? To me it's a good pick up, he's going to teach some of the younger guys how to be leaders and not be a locker room cancer. If his skills have eroded to the point that most of you fear then he helps the tank to boot.

[Ayt]

All the people saying we "didn't give up anything" are gigantically undervaluing the value of cap space during the season. That is especially true in the new CBA.

[Treebeard]

I've read through many of the responses of you folks, who are more basketball knowlegable than myself, and I'm still left with the impression that there is no clear plan for this team. It's like the whirlygig beetles out on the river - all kinds of action, lots of swirling around, but no direction.

http://www.arkive.org/whirligig-beetle/ ... eo-00.html

[EastSideBucksFan]

It's amusing to blame the locker room and while I'm sure it was bad, I think it's fair the players recognize poor leadership coming from management.

Everybody here recognizes that Kohl and Co. have no plan so when a player gets annoyed while working for them, it's somehow not cool. Like these guys have to be good soldiers regardless.

So expect this locker room to deteriorate as well because it all starts at the top. Even with a crew of 'happy to be here guys,' they'll still recognize they play for a **** franchise.

Just wait for Larry to get disgruntled and start looking over the fence as his contract nears its end.

Well everyone hated Skiles but Kohl didn't have the balls to tell him to just GTFO before last season even started. I honestly think Skiles has been trying to get fired for years. He's the one that told Hammond he wanted Drew Gooden. Skiles was the one that said he could control Stephen Jackson. Skiles is the one that wanted Corey Maggette. We listened to him every time. Skiles is bad, but Hammond is worse and Kohl is the leader letting it all go down.


I think Larry Drew has a chance and I'm going to give him that chance. He's a players coach. Guys related to him. He's not going to have this locker room seething hate for the coach every day. I'm going to be optimistic that the regime change is going to give us a fresh start.

[buki0022]

I like the deal. We got him for basically nothing. He should be a good mentor for the greek freak and middleton. If middleton or yannis is ready to produce right away they will take minutes for butler anyways. Its not like butler going to gets us anymore wins than were projected.

[blazza18]

Same argument from the same people after every trade.

[paulpressey25]

It's amusing to blame the locker room and while I'm sure it was bad, I think it's fair the players recognize poor leadership coming from management.

Everybody here recognizes that Kohl and Co. have no plan so when a player gets annoyed while working for them, it's somehow not cool. Like these guys have to be good soldiers regardless.

So expect this locker room to deteriorate as well because it all starts at the top. Even with a crew of 'happy to be here guys,' they'll still recognize they play for a **** franchise.

Just wait for Larry to get disgruntled and start looking over the fence as his contract nears its end.

+1. Well said.

We've had locker room issues for decades under Kohl.