Why is there no talk about AA dismissal?

[Yosemite Dan]

All this talk about firing Gibbons (and don't get me wrong, Jed Clampett should have never been hired, the guy commands about as much respect in the clubhouse as Billy Ray Cyrus) but no real calls for AA's dismissal. This reminds me so much of Godfrey and his little buddy J.P. where we had to suffer thru 7 years of crap because they were joined at the hip.

You are what your record says you are and AA's 4 seasons here have been abysmal. The team has gotten progressively worse with each successive season and the prospects for the future is even worse. How much leeway does being a nice guy give you. This guy is bullet proof. I think 4 seasons is enough to decide that he just doesn't have the smarts and instincts to be a good GM. Time to go back to being a bean counter. You don't have to fire him, just give him another position within the team if Beeston feels bad about canning him.

The payroll is bloated and higher than it's ever been yet the team is gonna have the worst record in years, the minor league system is emptied out for the most part. Does anybody really think is this team will be over .500 next year except for the same ones who think the Raptors will be a 45 win team this year? The future is pretty bleak yet this guy is being given the respect like he is Pat Gillick.

Now the stat nerds will come in and say that the team was projected to be a playoff team and it wasn't AA's fault that they didn't perform and it wasn't Gibby's fault they didn't perform but it's the player's fault but you can't blame the GM for that just because he brought in the players blah, blah, blah....

[DonYon]

Now the trolls will come in and say that Alex Anthopoulos is an incompetent GM that doesn't know how to acquire talent, spends out of control, and acquires crappy bench players and Gibbons makes his starters give up 2 more runs per game by his mere presence blah, blah, blah...

[s e n s i]

because his plan to compete had a minimum two year window and it's only year one. if the team drops another steamy deuce next season then the calls for AA's firing will be loud and clear a year from now and rightfully so.

[Yosemite Dan]

Now the trolls will come in and say that Alex Anthopoulos is an incompetent GM that doesn't know how to acquire talent, spends out of control, and acquires crappy bench players and Gibbons makes his starters give up 2 more runs per game by his mere presence blah, blah, blah...

Are you being sarcastic with that bolded part because exactly what part of that statement is not true.

You are free to state as to how AA deserves keeping his job. It's been 4 years and nothing to show for it except piss poor results. How many years does a guy need to show he knows what he's doing. It's the Colangelo syndrome all over again but at least BC had a a reputation for being competent prior and the Raps did make the playoffs a couple of times. If you can tell me how the negatives don't greatly outweigh the positives in the 4 years AA has been GM then I'm all ears. The team is a complete mess and are in alot worse position going forward than the Leafs were when they canned Brian Burke after 4 years. And Burke was a legit GM with a Cup ring who deserved to be given more rope.

It's just so typical of Toronto sports, if you're a nice guy and kiss corporate ass you can stay on your job with no fear of dismissal no matter how poorly you do (ie:Colangelo, J.P. and AA) but if you swear at a corporate meeting and refuse to kiss corporate ass then you are gone. (ie:Burke) It's funny that the only team that made the playoffs were the Leafs which was basically the team Burke built.

And that's why Toronto sports teams will continue to suck. We have a faceless corporate ownership where if you're a smart executive and know who to suck up to then you will employed long past your shelf life.

[Yosemite Dan]

because his plan to compete had a minimum two year window and it's only year one. if the team drops another steamy deuce next season then the calls for AA's firing will be loud and clear a year from now and rightfully so.

And next year they will crap out again and AA will say it was a 3 year plan and it's only year 2 (I think he has already said that to cover his ass, hasn't he?) It's convenient how his first 3 years here don't count. Sounds very Colangelo like, can't wait to hear about that organic growth around June next year when we are 10 games under .500.

[Griff83]

The Jays record the past 2 seasons is 135 wins vs 164 loss's.

Add in the fact the team has played just wretched fundamental baseball and acted like a bunch of immature idiots, I really dont know how AA gets to keep his job. With each passing day it looks more and more like AA really doesnt have a clue and is in over his head.

[Fairview4Life]

The Jays record the past 2 seasons is 135 wins vs 164 loss's.

Add in the fact the team has played just wretched fundamental baseball and acted like a bunch of immature idiots, I really dont know how AA gets to keep his job. With each passing day it looks more and more like AA really doesnt have a clue and is in over his head.

The Jays haven't been trying to win for the past two years. Last year's record is meaningless. They have been trying to win this year, and were derailed by poor starting pitching and injuries, predominantly.

[s e n s i]

because his plan to compete had a minimum two year window and it's only year one. if the team drops another steamy deuce next season then the calls for AA's firing will be loud and clear a year from now and rightfully so.

And next year they will crap out again and AA will say it was a 3 year plan and it's only year 2 (I think he has already said that to cover his ass, hasn't he?) It's convenient how his first 3 years here don't count. Sounds very Colangelo like, can't wait to hear about that organic growth around June next year when we are 10 games under .500.

well we can't all predict the future like you, so there's your answer I guess

[Randle McMurphy]

[Ado05]

I dont know why we would fire someone (either the manager, or the GM) because the players are underperforming.

[RapsFanInVA]

Why does no one want to fire all the underachieving players, i.e. the people responsible for the day-to-day terrible on-field performances?

[Yosemite Dan]

I dont know why we would fire someone (either the manager, or the GM) because the players are underperforming.

Who's responsible for bringing in the players? The guy has been GM 4 years and the team is in worse shape than when he took over. And next year looks like a disaster in waiting.

Again if someone can rationally explain to me why he deserves to continue as GM based on his body of work thus far then by all means please do. You can live off unloading Vernon Wells for only so long.

[Yosemite Dan]

And this by someone who hates BC yet AA is basically doing the exact same mistakes. Taking on bloated contracts in a haphazard attempt to build a winner and ignoring crucial positions of need figuring the team can wing it.

[Ado05]

I dont know why we would fire someone (either the manager, or the GM) because the players are underperforming.

Who's responsible for bringing in the players? The guy has been GM 4 years and the team is in worse shape than when he took over. And next year looks like a disaster in waiting.

Again if someone can rationally explain to me why he deserves to continue as GM based on his body of work thus far then by all means please do. You can live off unloading Vernon Wells for only so long.

What?

So he brought in players with great track records, he brought in the NL Cy Young award winner and because they failed to do what they have done in the past its his fault?

And how can you judge next year when theres still a whole offseason for AA to fill the needs of this team?

[Yosemite Dan]

I dont know why we would fire someone (either the manager, or the GM) because the players are underperforming.

Who's responsible for bringing in the players? The guy has been GM 4 years and the team is in worse shape than when he took over. And next year looks like a disaster in waiting.

Again if someone can rationally explain to me why he deserves to continue as GM based on his body of work thus far then by all means please do. You can live off unloading Vernon Wells for only so long.

What?

So he brought in players with great track records, he brought in the NL Cy Young award winner and because they failed to do what they have done in the past its his fault?

And how can you judge next year when theres still a whole offseason for AA to fill the needs of this team?

Unbelievable, did you really expect Dickey to have another Cy Young type season? Really? He was in a different league and 39 years old. You can say all you want about being a knuckleballer but he's still old and gets more aches and pains, remember his sore back. And a knuckleballer is notoriously inconsistent. Wakefield used to be all over the place year to year performance wise. AA banked on a aging knuckleballer to be his ace. How stupid is that and gave up 2 high prospects to do it.

Signing Melky to 16 million and now we're watching him gimp around for another year when everybody knew he would regress because he wasn't juicing anymore.

Johnson had already lost some velocity and wasnt exactly known for durability. Buerhle is what you expected but for that contract it wasn't worth it. And even expecting Morrow to be your #2 starter was moronic, the guy is more fragile than a China doll.

And the majority of these players came from losing organizations and the Giants were so enthralled with Melky being in the clubhouse they didn't even activate him for the playoffs. And you expected this collection of players to lead us to the promised land.

[Fairview4Life]

-RA Dickey turns 39 at the end of this October.
-RA Dickey has pitched like a frontline starter for 3 straight seasons (age 35, 36, and 37) prior to the trade, he wasn't inconsistent.
-Everyone knew Melky wasn't going to put up an OPS of .900, but he just turned 28 and banking on an OBP higher than .322 and/or a slugging % higher than .360 wasn't "unbelievable". Not being on roids didn't **** up his hamstrings this year.
-The "losing organization" stuff is a load of irrelevant nonsense.

Your 'throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks' form of trolling is getting pretty boring.

[Randle McMurphy]

And this by someone who hates BC yet AA is basically doing the exact same mistakes. Taking on bloated contracts in a haphazard attempt to build a winner and ignoring crucial positions of need figuring the team can wing it.

This ridiculous argument's been had before and just recently as well. See this thread for the gist of how it goes: viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1271154&start=90

[Ado05]

Unbelievable, did you really expect Dickey to have another Cy Young type season? Really? He was in a different league and 39 years old. You can say all you want about being a knuckleballer but he's still old and gets more aches and pains, remember his sore back. And a knuckleballer is notoriously inconsistent. Wakefield used to be all over the place year to year performance wise. AA banked on a aging knuckleballer to be his ace. How stupid is that and gave up 2 high prospects to do it.

Umm, Dickey has been a good starter for 3+ years. Obviously hes going to have his problems, but him being a knuckleballer minimizes most of the issues you expect from an 39 year old pitcher. And we only have 3 year window, so its not like we expect Dickey to be here 5+ and to be our ace every year.

Signing Melky to 16 million and now we're watching him gimp around for another year when everybody knew he would regress because he wasn't juicing anymore.

So? No one thought that he was going to do as good. And plus, Melky has shown he can be a good player in the past (2011). And it wasnt even a long term deal. It was a low risk/high reward kind of deal. There was hardy any risk, and there still is hardly any risk and theres still time for to be a reall good player, hopefully he'll be healthy next year.

Johnson had already lost some velocity and wasnt exactly known for durability.

Yeah, JJ obviously had his issues, but when you look at what he is capable of accomplishing, it was definitely worth the risk.

Buerhle is what you expected but for that contract it wasn't worth it.

Sure, the contract is backloaded, but a guy like Buerhle is essential in making the playoffs and going deep. Every team needs (and especially this team) a pitcher like him. Its eventually going to catch up to him, but I assume the window for success with this team will be closed by then.

And even expecting Morrow to be your #2 starter was moronic, the guy is more fragile than a China doll.

Sure, but you cant just get a #2 starter easily. Its the best we could do. It would have cost us more prospects to try and get one.

And the majority of these players came from losing organizations and the Giants were so enthralled with Melky being in the clubhouse they didn't even activate him for the playoffs. And you expected this collection of players to lead us to the promised land.

They were all good players. Usually when you put good players on the same team, the team turns out to be good. Doesnt matter about how bad the organizations those players were coming from.

[youreachiteach]

So, let's get this straight.

It was okay for him to overpay for Dickey because getting pitching is "hard" in a non-capped environment? It was the best we could do is a legitimate argument? **** Charlie V would have pitched similarly badly without costing anything but money.

By that logic, no one ever deserves to get fired ever! All the GM has to say is...hey, it's hard!

You know what WOULDN'T have been hard? Spending the money on Chapman and Darvish or Kuroda or ..... like every other team that doesn't suck sh*t did. (Because, as I've mentioned, it only cost money and no prospects). Did Rogers only open up the purse strings this last year? Maybe, maybe not, although AA has consistently said the money "will be there if we ask for it".

The bottom line is he missed out on the pitching he could have had and relied way to much on injury prone players with major risk. Now he knows better but he's prospect poor and capped out.

[whysoserious]

As much as I've stated my opinion that Gibbons has done nothing to prove he deserves the job next year, I'm not sure how you can legitimately make the case that AA should be fired. If anything, he deserves a chance to correct what's happened this season. You can't look at the record and say it's gotten worse, it was a rebuild for a few years and then he went all in. There are definitely questionable moves within this all-in season and has lack of ability to sign his first-rounders, but it's one season and before the season started everyone within MLB was touting him as potential Exec of the Year type guy.

There are issues, and he deserves a chance to correct them. This is nowhere at the level of when JP was here, not yet anyway.