Is Billy King a good or bad GM?

[SF_Warriors]

I dunno.. I am kind of sick of people thinking Billy King is a good GM

First, the team is stacked on paper, but when you look at the bigger picture:

The team's payroll is OVER 100 mill.
Any half decent GM can build a championship contender with an 85 mill payroll let alone a 100 mill one.
The team is projected to win about 55 wins.
So let me get this straight. It takes a 100 mill payroll to get 55 wins. Big whoop. At least they aren't Isaiah's knicks.

Add to the fact that there are no first round picks in the near future.
And don't forget the ugly lotto pick for gwallace trade, when they were heading for the lottery, and Wallace was free agent that offseason anyways.


I don't care how rich you are, there is no way a team can sustain paying like 80 mill in luxury taxes each season on top of a 100 mill payroll.
I think Jay might have sold his stakes on the team once he realized how **** crazy the owner is. I mean, wasn't having ownership stakes on an NBA team in Brooklyn his dream??

[therealbig3]

I think he sucks, but he did recognize a great chance to improve the team and he capitalized on it, with regards to KG and Pierce. We're as good or better as we would have been with Dwight imo, so there's not much to still be pissed about.

But he made a ton of mistakes and he kind of lucked into a "Get out of jail free" card with the KG/Pierce trade and AK signing for cheap...but even then, we don't own a draft pick unconditionally until 2019, so as always with King, the future has been sold off for win-now pieces...the only difference between his previous teams and this one though is that this team has a legit chance to compete for a title, so again, I can't really complain about the stupid **** he's done when at the end of the day, we're as good as we would have been anyway.

[Basileus777]

Where are you getting that wins projection from?

[DrazenForThree]

I dunno.. I am kind of sick of people thinking Billy King is a good GM

First, the team is stacked on paper, but when you look at the bigger picture:

The team's payroll is OVER 100 mill.
Any half decent GM can build a championship contender with an 85 mill payroll let alone a 100 mill one.
The team is projected to win about 55 wins.
So let me get this straight. It takes a 100 mill payroll to get 55 wins. Big whoop. At least they aren't Isaiah's knicks.

no, king is an awful GM. the moves he made may have worked out to some extent but they were still some of the worst moves given what he had to start with. i dont think our roster is really indiciative of his positive work moreso as being in a great place under abnormal circumstances. i will say, in defense, some of these things werent his fault either... i.e. D12

Add to the fact that there are no first round picks in the near future.
And don't forget the ugly lotto pick for gwallace trade, when they were heading for the lottery, and Wallace was free agent that offseason anyways.[/qyoute]

we have picked in 2015, 2017 and the ability to purchases one in 2014 and 2016. i find it unlikely that we dont end up with picks every year

I don't care how rich you are, there is no way a team can sustain paying like 80 mill in luxury taxes each season on top of a 100 mill payroll.

right, cause its not like the steinbrenners, another rich family committed to winning over profit, didnt sustain insanelly high payrolls forever. payroll and tax will never be an issue so long as we have this ownership group

I think Jay might have sold his stakes on the team once he realized how **** crazy the owner is. I mean, wasn't having ownership stakes on an NBA team in Brooklyn his dream??

he sold his stakes because he was forced to once he started his sports agency and decided he wanted to sign on nba players

[Hello Brooklyn]

I have always defended King.

You people are ridiculous and expect way too much. You blame every GM who walks through the door.

King is a lot better than Thorn was. Remember Thorn? The guy who signed bad FA after bad FA, drafted abysmally, and got lucky to pull a few good trades.

King has done wonders for the franchise.

Without King's relationships with O'Connor, we never get D-Will. You can take that to the bank. Anyone that doesn't appreciate that move is on drugs. We literally gave up nothing of value. Devin Harris is barely a backup PG anymore. Derrick Favors is GARBAGE. Anyone, who still believes in him is a fool. He will amount to nothing.

The JJ trade was also great value. Even if no one wanted him, it was still a good move. Without JJ, we lose D-Will. And we sure as hell do not win 49 games.

Then he had the PERFECT PLAN to get Dwight. IS it our fault the Magic took the garbage deal they did? OF course not. Anyone with sense, would have taken the Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, picks package.

All of his FA signings worked out for the most part. Blatche, Watson, Reggie Evans, Kirilenko. Our bench was the best in years. Remember when Thorn was our GM and our bench was headlined by Lamond Murry and Zoran Plananic?

Lastly, the Pierce and KG trade was probably one of the best trades in franchise history. The Gerald Wallace contract, one of the WORST CONTRACTS in the NBA is taken off our pay roll. And we get two veterans with championship experience. And we get rid of the chucker that is Marshon Brooks.

Does anyone thank King or praise him for this? Of course not. He just legitimately made us a championship contender. KG alone would have done wonders for this team. I could care less about draft picks. We don't need late first rounders, 80% of which are busts. And are usually never all-stars.

Also, lets not forget that he fired Avery (another horrible Thorn move) when he didn't deliver. He saw how much he was holding us back. And he also didn't stay loyal to PJ, like other teams would have. He didn't go ahead and sign Brian Shaw. He saw a diamond in the rough in Jason Kidd, and in my opinion, we have a great coach.

Lastly, yes we all know King's biggest blunder. He shouldn't have traded a lottery pick for Gerald Wallace. Yes this was an awful, awful move. Yes it stopped us from getting a lottery pick, which could have maybe gotten Dwight. Yes the contract we gave him was a joke. Yes he was pretty bad his entire time here. But at the end of the day, every GM makes mistakes.

And if were keeping score, hes still coming out ahead.

This team we have right now is the best team the Nets have ever assembled. To not give King credit is ridiculous.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Also who the **** cares if we have 100 mill pay roll. Is it your money? Are you a Russian billionaire?

And I could care less if you think its not "sustainable." This man is worth 18 BILLION DOLLARS. That 100 mill is a joke to him. Its merely a fraction of his salary.

Thats like a poor kid in Africa coming to you, and ****ing because you bought a new pair of Jordans.

Does it suck that we have so much income inequality in the world, that one man can be worth more than several countries?

Yes.

But he can spend all the money he wants on this team. Its his prerogative.

[therealbig3]

Rod Thorn drafted K-Mart, traded for RJ, Collins, and Kidd, and basically singlehandedly put together a back-to-back Eastern Conference champion overnight. He also traded for VC (this was one of the GOAT steals in NBA history) and gave us 3 of the most exciting years in franchise history. He also wasn't obsessed with name value...he understood when it was time to move on from these same players.

I like how Rod Thorn was lucky, but Billy King wasn't. He just had an all-time great "Get out of jail free" card fall into his lap. Do you even remember where we were before KG and Pierce became a possibility? We were a complete treadmill team with a ceiling of the 2nd round if we got lucky...we were about to trade for Paul Pierce using our only remaining trade asset, which would have done nothing except raise our lux tax. That's the team Billy King gave us with the fantastic trade assets he had. The fact that he was able to then turn the crappy trade assets he had into great, championship-contending value was impossible to foresee and that can't be labeled as anything but pure luck. He was lucky the NBA prevented KG from going to the Clippers, and he was lucky that Ainge was willing to listen about trading KG for a package that included Gerald Wallace. Circumstances that really had nothing to do with Billy King forced Ainge's hand.

[DrazenForThree]

Rod Thorn drafted K-Mart, traded for RJ, Collins, and Kidd, and basically singlehandedly put together a back-to-back Eastern Conference champion overnight. He also traded for VC (this was one of the GOAT steals in NBA history) and gave us 3 of the most exciting years in franchise history. He also wasn't obsessed with name value...he understood when it was time to move on from these same players.

I like how Rod Thorn was lucky, but Billy King wasn't. He just had an all-time great "Get out of jail free" card fall into his lap. Do you even remember where we were before KG and Pierce became a possibility? We were a complete treadmill team with a ceiling of the 2nd round if we got lucky...we were about to trade for Paul Pierce using our only remaining trade asset, which would have done nothing except raise our lux tax. That's the team Billy King gave us with the fantastic trade assets he had. The fact that he was able to then turn the crappy trade assets he had into great, championship-contending value was impossible to foresee and that can't be labeled as anything but pure luck. He was lucky the NBA prevented KG from going to the Clippers, and he was lucky that Ainge was willing to listen about trading KG for a package that included Gerald Wallace. Circumstances that really had nothing to do with Billy King forced Ainge's hand.

this exactly.

Did king land deron williams? sure. But even that, argualbly, was a bit of an overpay. and hardly not a steal. not to mention, had he not made that trade, its not like we would be in such a horrible spot as we'd have Favors/Lopez/and whomever we'd have taken instead of enes kanter at #3

The johnson trade was not great vaule. a good GM gets it without include a pick swap, maybe without include a pick at all. on the surface, joe johnson for nothing talent wise seems good. but tons of expirings + picks for what might have been the leagues most unmoveable contract certainly isnt great value.

Trading a top 5 lottery pick for a Gerald Wallace who was a pending free agent, then overpaying wallace in free agency is one of the worst moves in franchise history, and one of the worst trades in recent years in the league. Especially when you consider lillard was ROTY and Harden could have been had for that draft pick.

Basically, king was given a situation where no matter how terribly he screwed up he was still going to end up with an extremely talented treadmill team at worst. He was gifted:

Lopez and Favors on rookie deals, TONS of cap room, TONS of expiring money, The ability to amnesty his only bad contract, extra first round picks, and a move to a new arena in slightly better market while getting a new attractive image. not to mention a top 5 player begging to come to your team and a russian player willing to give up 3 years 30 million to come to your team for peanuts

Honestly, there was litereally NO POSSIBLE WAY to screw that up.

if he overpaid for carmello and overspent on bad free agents we'd still have a core of Carmello/Lopez free agents.

if he missed on Dwill we'd still have Lopez/Favors/Brandon knight(?) and whoever we used 30 million of cap space on.

if he doesnt trade for wallace and isntead uses the pick on barnes or lillard or whatever we still get better.

if he doesnt make the JJ trade we still have that same huge expiring package to move for someone similar or better.

he literally made like 3 AWFUL moves, 2 BAD moves, 1 move that fell in his lap(AK47), 2 good moves that were overpays.

i cant imagine any good GM not doing MUCH better and i cant imagine any GM doing worse

[jeff1624]

Rod Thorn drafted K-Mart, traded for RJ, Collins, and Kidd, and basically singlehandedly put together a back-to-back Eastern Conference champion overnight. He also traded for VC (this was one of the GOAT steals in NBA history) and gave us 3 of the most exciting years in franchise history. He also wasn't obsessed with name value...he understood when it was time to move on from these same players.

I like how Rod Thorn was lucky, but Billy King wasn't. He just had an all-time great "Get out of jail free" card fall into his lap. Do you even remember where we were before KG and Pierce became a possibility? We were a complete treadmill team with a ceiling of the 2nd round if we got lucky...we were about to trade for Paul Pierce using our only remaining trade asset, which would have done nothing except raise our lux tax. That's the team Billy King gave us with the fantastic trade assets he had. The fact that he was able to then turn the crappy trade assets he had into great, championship-contending value was impossible to foresee and that can't be labeled as anything but pure luck. He was lucky the NBA prevented KG from going to the Clippers, and he was lucky that Ainge was willing to listen about trading KG for a package that included Gerald Wallace. Circumstances that really had nothing to do with Billy King forced Ainge's hand.

Thank you.

I don't know how anyone can dismiss the amount of money Billy King has to play with when determining if he's a good/bad GM. No other other owners outside of the those of the Lakers and Knicks are willing to go anywhere near our total salary. You think taking on big contract over big contract doesn't cripple teams? If all these other teams had Prokhorov as owner: OKC would have gladly given Harden the max, Miami wouldn't be amnestying a player that helped them out a ton when they won these past 2 years. Chicago would still have asik, korver, etc. If Thorn had Prokhorov's pockets he wouldn't have had to trade K-Mart once his rookie contract came up. He could have gambled more on trades.

You know what other advantage King has over Thorn? The Brooklyn brand name. NOBODY wanted to come to Jersey. If we were still in Jersey I doubt Deron Re-Signs and even if he did I doubt KG would have accepted the trade.

While Thorn wasn't perfect, he is a vastly smarter/shrewder GM than King. I doubt Thorn would have traded a 5th pick for Gerald Wallace then go on to pay him twice as much as he's worth.

[CalamityX12]

King is an awful gm.....

he literally created a roster of our starting 5 plus AK n Terry just to come close to looking like a good GM...

he was forced and lucky to create what we have now but he **** up since day 1....

[VCRJKidd15]

King 10/10 GM hatas gonna hate ballas gonna ball

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

Right now, this is almost like asking if Phil Jackson is really a good coach. You'd need know to what he could have done with the team under different, less favorable circumstances.

EDIT: but, yeah, the Wallace acquisition was pretty bad.

[The Hypnotoad]

He can look brilliant one year then terrible the next. The whole Dwight/Gerald Wallace fiasco really hurt this team, he should have been patient after Dwight decided to opt in another year, but you know the story. However i think he's made lemonade out of what we had last year. Well i can say that not having to pay the bill for the team, however!

[TheMightyHumph]

Thorn was a bad GM and King is a bad GM.

Hoping this trade gets us to at least the ECF.

And to a previous poster, no one was offering AK $30 mil for 3 years.

[SF_Warriors]

Right now, this is almost like asking if Phil Jackson is really a good coach. You'd need know to what he could have done with the team under different, less favorable circumstances.

EDIT: but, yeah, the Wallace acquisition was pretty bad.

We do have precedence on King in the past. He was a former GM for another eastern conference team and had a perennial all star. He was canned becaused he SUCKED.
I personally want to see another GM and what he could do with a 100 mill payroll. The team would probably >>>the Heat.

And yes, I understand that if the money is there, it is his perogative to spend as much as he wants.

I am not "hating" on anyone. It is simple economics.
A business losing that much money a year is well, poorly run.

But yea, kinda reminds me of star athletes thinking that the well will never run dry, and years later they are broke.
Probably won't happen to a guy worth 18 billion, and I am not rooting for it either. Personally, I love seeing brooklyn in the realm of NYK and LAL spending.
But heck, even the Lakers are worried about the new CBA and its implications on luxury taxes.

How did he amass his fortune? I heard it was gold mines? Could be wrong...
But yea, you guys know what happened to the price of gold this past year, right?

[Hello Brooklyn]

Rod Thorn drafted K-Mart, traded for RJ, Collins, and Kidd, and basically singlehandedly put together a back-to-back Eastern Conference champion overnight. He also traded for VC (this was one of the GOAT steals in NBA history) and gave us 3 of the most exciting years in franchise history. He also wasn't obsessed with name value...he understood when it was time to move on from these same players.

I like how Rod Thorn was lucky, but Billy King wasn't. He just had an all-time great "Get out of jail free" card fall into his lap. Do you even remember where we were before KG and Pierce became a possibility? We were a complete treadmill team with a ceiling of the 2nd round if we got lucky...we were about to trade for Paul Pierce using our only remaining trade asset, which would have done nothing except raise our lux tax. That's the team Billy King gave us with the fantastic trade assets he had. The fact that he was able to then turn the crappy trade assets he had into great, championship-contending value was impossible to foresee and that can't be labeled as anything but pure luck. He was lucky the NBA prevented KG from going to the Clippers, and he was lucky that Ainge was willing to listen about trading KG for a package that included Gerald Wallace. Circumstances that really had nothing to do with Billy King forced Ainge's hand.

LOL.

Rod did a good job getting Kidd, VC, and RJ.

But everything else he did was straight up (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Literally, every other move was terrible. I can't think of anything he did that was positive.

From drafting, free agents, to trades.

Except for drafting Lopez. I'll give him that too. Most of King's moves have been solid.

[Paradise]

Overall? Billy is a below average GM that goes out of his way to make moves that are pretty simple, very hard. But, I think even though this team hasn't played yet he has redeemed himself a bit from the blunders he made over the year.

The Good:

-The Deron trade has done wonders for the franchise obviously and now that all assets within that trade are now out in the open, we traded Favors, Kanter, Devin Harris = Marvin Williams, Draymond Green, Trey Burke for Deron. It doesn't seem like a bad trade to me. Deron being the focal point has helped the Nets assemble the best talented roster in franchise history to compete for a title while Favors, Kanter haven't gotten to their potential yet whatsoever.

-Signing Blatche. Well, technically we need to thank Avery Johnson for this but this easily was his free agency signing.

-Signing Kirilenko. This is the part where I really really was proud of him because he actually showed some composure and restrained to make a panic move knowing Bogdanovic opted to stay with Fenerbache. Apparently, he was talking to Alan Anderson but he actually waited to see if Kirilenko would bite at the offer and he did. Then, he still managed to get Alan Anderson.

-Euro stashing. Being able to acquire Euro talent, develop them and keep them on board on the cheap. It's a concept that actually is pretty underrated especially if you're going to be living and dying by the new CBA and being an capped out team.

-The KG/PP trade. Well, I'll say this: I killed him for not going in the direction of the Humphries/Gordon swap at the deadline. It was a no brainer with the team lacking a true 6th man scorer and Marshon sulking and doing nothing. Then, he was talking to Ainge about Pierce back during the deadline when the J-Smith trade looked impossible, Ainge asked for more than we sent them now. So, I will say I was completely wrong about Billy for standing pat because it was patience that payed off.

Thing is, about the PP/KG trade that people don't seem to understand is, we didn't give up anything FOR them BUT we gave up extra picks to compensate with shedding Gerald Wallace which is the part that continues to annoy me about Billy. That Wallace trade in hindsight has now cost the 6th lottery pick (Lillard) and now picks 2017/2018. Billy was going to get Pierce for Hump/16' first rounder and another piece. So, imagine if Wallace not only was on a respectable contract but was on a deal with not many years? The trade looks a bit different.

-The Joe Johnson trade to me was a both good/bad situation. First off, the good was putting a legit scorer next to Deron and the concept of the backcourt was a good one. Deron has basically played his entire career without a quality go to scorer until this trade. However...

The Bad:

-Giving up the players in the Joe Johnson trade didn't bother me that much except for maybe Anthony Morrow. But the mind boggling part was the fact, he gave up the picks and then pick swap when it all could have been avoided by simply including Marshon Brooks. Which he ended up having to trade anyhow. He apparently thought that he was somehow going to get Dwight Howard for Marshon, Humphries, Lopez and get JJ with the pick swap? Not sure what the hell was that about. Danny Ainge saved his ass with that one.

-The Gerald Wallace trade. Um yeah. That's all that needs to be said. First off, from the way the trade went down, it seemed like Portland played around with him and squeezed his balls for the majority of the negotiation until he just decided to throw the kitchen sink at them with the offer. Which is laughable. I personally had no problem with Billy wanting Gerald Wallace but I'm pretty sure nobody else wanted him at the price tag Portland wanted him and Billy pretty much outbid himself. I'm pretty darn sure Marshon/Humphries could have been enough.

Basically, Billy made deals more complicated than he had too, he gave away more than he needed too, Yeah he got pretty lucky with the KG trade getting blocked but he showed the creative savvy I was looking for to see if he's good enough to fix his mistakes and maximize his assets. Even if we overpaid to shed Wallace's contract, it was pretty damn worth it, IMO. There is a good chance the trade doesn't look favorable for this team in hindsight but you can't really get out of the mess you created better than what he did this summer.

[Hello Brooklyn]

You guys are just ridiculous. You expect way too much. Lets see you try to do a better job.

King took a 12 win team and made it into a championship contender. You can call it luck, or you can call it for what it is.

You people crying because we gave up Derrick Favors for Deron Williams, are a joke.
That trade was highway robbery. Not even one of the assets we gave to the Jazz have panned out.

The fact that you people even question the Joe Johnson trade is also absurd. Youre upset cause we gave up Anthony Morrow? LOL. What has he done since he left the Nets?

[therealbig3]

You guys are just ridiculous. You expect way too much. Lets see you try to do a better job.

King took a 12 win team and made it into a championship contender. You can call it luck, or you can call it for what it is.

You people crying because we gave up Derrick Favors for Deron Williams, are a joke.
That trade was highway robbery. Not even one of the assets we gave to the Jazz have panned out.

The fact that you people even question the Joe Johnson trade is also absurd. Youre upset cause we gave up Anthony Morrow? LOL. What has he done since he left the Nets?

It's been explained to you a million times, but you clearly don't understand anything, or you refuse to understand it so that you can go on trumpeting your support of King. Either way, you're just clueless.

Trading a Benz for a Ford Focus and then finding out later that the Benz happened to be defective doesn't make it a good trade.

[Paradise]

You guys are just ridiculous. You expect way too much. Lets see you try to do a better job.

King took a 12 win team and made it into a championship contender. You can call it luck, or you can call it for what it is.

You people crying because we gave up Derrick Favors for Deron Williams, are a joke.
That trade was highway robbery. Not even one of the assets we gave to the Jazz have panned out.

The fact that you people even question the Joe Johnson trade is also absurd. Youre upset cause we gave up Anthony Morrow? LOL. What has he done since he left the Nets?

People were annoyed with the Joe Johnson trade because of the amount of picks that were unnecessarily given up. People were annoyed with the Wallace trade for that exact reason then when Wallace couldn't pan out, he had to shell out more assets and picks to get rid of Wallace and who knows if those picks might end up being the reason we don't land a player like Kevin Love in the future or something, so It's not ridiculous.

But I admit it's absurd for anyone to criticize the D-Will trade now that there is nothing else owed in that deal anymore. King won that deal hands down and it's really the only trade he probably won. People do go overboard with their rational thinking with every single move he makes but he's done nothing but deserve it.