bleacherreport: Knicks Will Win 2014 Atlantic Division

[nykfan757]

When is this fanbase going to quit googly eyeing every potential FA regardless of fit, stop caring simply about division titles and 2nd round appearances and DEMAND management start building a CHAMPIONSHIP formula??

WHEN???

Someone please tell me...because as much as I hear "I want a title!"...stupid moves and ignorant trades for flavor of the month players are still supported by the fanbase. This is THE FIRST offseason where the front office made the type of moves that get you where you want to be. But even then, who gives a flying **** about an article predicting a record??? Win a damn title!!! Then we can get "excited" about positive articles.

[nykballa2k4]

When is this fanbase going to quit googly eyeing every potential FA regardless of fit, stop caring simply about division titles and 2nd round appearances and DEMAND management start building a CHAMPIONSHIP formula??

WHEN???

Someone please tell me...because as much as I hear "I want a title!"...stupid moves and ignorant trades for flavor of the month players are still supported by the fanbase. This is THE FIRST offseason where the front office made the type of moves that get you where you want to be. But even then, who gives a flying **** about an article predicting a record??? Win a damn title!!! Then we can get "excited" about positive articles.

make a good point. Regardless of the "respect" from the media, if we win, we will have things to be happy about. The issue is enough people who are knicks fans have issues and complaints about the team, so there are negative pieces about the knicsk because it drives sales. No one wants to read "knicks made solid moves and should narrowly win more games than the nets" but that is the most likely division scenario. What the media wants to sell is "knicks are good, but nets are better!"

I really wonder if this is about the Knicks/NY or about cablevision.

[Italians in NBA]

Age is age.
I played in Italy til I was 35. I had only a serious problem when I was 27, so I missed more than a season's half stopping to play from december til october of the next year. In Italy we play less ( a lot less) games than in NBA. Since I was 32 I was always using ice on my knees after every single time I was in the gym. In every training session I (and my other 2 same age teammates) had to be carefull not to run either to jump too much, just not to have knee, back, elbow inflammations. After the 32/33 we were slower, less jumping with less minutes in our body.
White men (I'm an Italian zebra) can't jump? Maybe, but I can say that OLD players can't run and jump much more!
Experience is important for sure, but Garnett and Piece probably cannot be anymore so great contributors at their age. And the decline can be very very quick when you are over 35.
So the media are saying that the Nets are a better team? Maybe, but I like so much and more the Knicks roster this year.

[porkchop8920]

its also worth mentioning that the depth behind KG and Lopez - two players who havent stayed healthy for a season in quite sometime - are AK-47, Blatche and Evans. well Tetlovic for whatever thats worth and plumlee and Shengelia for whatever thats worth too.

Brook Lopez played in 74 games last year and KG has played in more games than Melo in each of the past two seasons. If Evans and Blatche alone aren't a formidable backup front court then I have no idea what is.

[Durins Baynes]

All I can add at this point is to watch how the season unfolds. I feel like a lot of Knicks fans are going to be really disappointed given their expectations.

[Boarder Patrol]

its also worth mentioning that the depth behind KG and Lopez - two players who havent stayed healthy for a season in quite sometime - are AK-47, Blatche and Evans. well Tetlovic for whatever thats worth and plumlee and Shengelia for whatever thats worth too.

Brook Lopez played in 74 games last year and KG has played in more games than Melo in each of the past two seasons. If Evans and Blatche alone aren't a formidable backup front court then I have no idea what is.

Brook Lopez is playing with a screw in his foot and that screw is bending due to the pressure of playing pro basketball. It could hold up, or it couldn't. Obviously you hope for his health but there's certainly no garuntee.

KG and Melo played the same amount of games last year, except for the end of the year when we had our playoff spot locked up and could rest him a few games while you couldn't. Melo also played nearly 10 more MPG. He does tend to consistently miss 10 or so games a year so I'm fine with you making this point however.

Blatche is a great backup C but Evans is a complete liability in every other facet of the game except rebounding. Considering he has to START 20 games when KG rests, that's not good news. IMO, Amare/Kenyon/Metta which is our likely backups > Blatche/Evans/Scrub

As far as my expectations, I don't think there unreasonable at all. 3rd seed, 2nd round team is where Id put us. Stop generalizing fan bases, it's annoying.

[Paradise]

Brook Lopez is playing with a screw in his foot and that screw is bending due to the pressure of playing pro basketball. It could hold up, or it couldn't. Obviously you hope for his health but there's certainly no garuntee.

I agree with that. To be honest, If he has another similar injury over the course of the next few seasons, I wouldn't be surprised if they S&T or straight up trade him before his contract is up. I would certainly entertain it.

But that's why adding Garnett makes a big difference compared to last year, if let's say Blatche has to start over Lopez due to an injury, you still get the efficient scoring inside and now you get better defensively. Garnett still can play his normal 27 minutes while Blatche gets an increase. Last year if Lopez went down, Blatche was the only legit big that could play both positions. The Nets were fine in every aspect but defense when Lopez was out.

KG and Melo played the same amount of games last year, except for the end of the year when we had our playoff spot locked up and could rest him a few games while you couldn't. Melo also played nearly 10 more MPG. He does tend to consistently miss 10 or so games a year so I'm fine with you making this point however.

If Melo slides back to SF, I expect him to sustain less injuries. Which is why Bargnani is better off starting, IMO. Keep the spacing the same and there is less potential of injury against the likes of guarding KG, West, Monroe, etc.

Blatche is a great backup C but Evans is a complete liability in every other facet of the game except rebounding. Considering he has to START 20 games when KG rests, that's not good news. IMO, Amare/Kenyon/Metta which is our likely backups > Blatche/Evans/Scrub

Evans is good for starting against lottery teams, so if Garnett plays against the Knicks then on a back to back the Nets have a game against the Sixers, you can rest KG and start Evans and get away with it.

But from what I know, If KG is out, Blatche starts at PF/Lopez stays at Center, Plumlee backs Lopez at C. If, Lopez is out, KG or Blatche swap positions at PF/C as starters and Plumlee comes off the bench with Evans or Teletovic.

The backcourt is the actual area of weakness when it comes to injury possibilities. That's the only concern with the health thing.

[nykfan757]

When is this fanbase going to quit googly eyeing every potential FA regardless of fit, stop caring simply about division titles and 2nd round appearances and DEMAND management start building a CHAMPIONSHIP formula??

WHEN???

Someone please tell me...because as much as I hear "I want a title!"...stupid moves and ignorant trades for flavor of the month players are still supported by the fanbase. This is THE FIRST offseason where the front office made the type of moves that get you where you want to be. But even then, who gives a flying **** about an article predicting a record??? Win a damn title!!! Then we can get "excited" about positive articles.

make a good point. Regardless of the "respect" from the media, if we win, we will have things to be happy about. The issue is enough people who are knicks fans have issues and complaints about the team, so there are negative pieces about the knicsk because it drives sales. No one wants to read "knicks made solid moves and should narrowly win more games than the nets" but that is the most likely division scenario. What the media wants to sell is "knicks are good, but nets are better!"

I really wonder if this is about the Knicks/NY or about cablevision.

Pardon me for the rant, however, what irks me is that the fan base feeds the beast everytime with these articles and/or news clippings. You're a fan, I get it, so naturally the want to support your team and be optimistic is there. But I also believe that is EXACTLY what Dolan has been counting on to continually use a formula that has proven does not work.

Example...I am a Cubs fan of 26 years (yes I know we've been bad overall). The fan base finally got fed up with the roller coaster ride seasons around 2005 and began to voice their opinions to ownership at the annual conventions. When things did not change they turned up the volume on their displeasure. 3 years later they got a new owner (Thomas Ricketts), a new VP of baseball operations (Theo Epstein) and a revamped scouting department. They had a plan that was committed to winning for the long term and took the time to explain that to the fan base. Now, in the present day, the Cubs have the best position player farm system in the entire league and are probably two deep with top prospects at 7 of the 8 fielding positions. The team is playing with a different attitude, and while the results have not shown in the standings, the fans can absolutely see the difference.

Same here with the Knicks. I remember when the fan base got so fed up with IT that they picketted in front of MSG for almost a week showing their displeasure. Result? Dolan fires his right hand man. Same with the 2011 trade deadline...DO NOT for one second think that James Dolan did not hear the voice of the Garden with the "we want Melo" chants and decided to act on his own to get him here, seeing a huge financial opportunity for ticket and jersey sales coming right along with it.

The fan base has the voice for change, because we are the reason the Garden can open its doors. And the more we support the same tired BS that these articles represent and less in the ear of the man who is influence by his cash machine(fans)...then he will continue to ride the horse until its time to shoot it dead.

IDK about you all but I got my gun ready to kill me a horse. I suggest if you all want to see things change you get yours loaded too.

[nykballa2k4]

make a good point. Regardless of the "respect" from the media, if we win, we will have things to be happy about. The issue is enough people who are knicks fans have issues and complaints about the team, so there are negative pieces about the knicsk because it drives sales. No one wants to read "knicks made solid moves and should narrowly win more games than the nets" but that is the most likely division scenario. What the media wants to sell is "knicks are good, but nets are better!"

I really wonder if this is about the Knicks/NY or about cablevision.

Pardon me for the rant, however, what irks me is that the fan base feeds the beast everytime with these articles and/or news clippings. You're a fan, I get it, so naturally the want to support your team and be optimistic is there. But I also believe that is EXACTLY what Dolan has been counting on to continually use a formula that has proven does not work.

Example...I am a Cubs fan of 26 years (yes I know we've been bad overall). The fan base finally got fed up with the roller coaster ride seasons around 2005 and began to voice their opinions to ownership at the annual conventions. When things did not change they turned up the volume on their displeasure. 3 years later they got a new owner (Thomas Ricketts), a new VP of baseball operations (Theo Epstein) and a revamped scouting department. They had a plan that was committed to winning for the long term and took the time to explain that to the fan base. Now, in the present day, the Cubs have the best position player farm system in the entire league and are probably two deep with top prospects at 7 of the 8 fielding positions. The team is playing with a different attitude, and while the results have not shown in the standings, the fans can absolutely see the difference.

Same here with the Knicks. I remember when the fan base got so fed up with IT that they picketted in front of MSG for almost a week showing their displeasure. Result? Dolan fires his right hand man. Same with the 2011 trade deadline...DO NOT for one second think that James Dolan did not hear the voice of the Garden with the "we want Melo" chants and decided to act on his own to get him here, seeing a huge financial opportunity for ticket and jersey sales coming right along with it.

The fan base has the voice for change, because we are the reason the Garden can open its doors. And the more we support the same tired BS that these articles represent and less in the ear of the man who is influence by his cash machine(fans)...then he will continue to ride the horse until its time to shoot it dead.

IDK about you all but I got my gun ready to kill me a horse. I suggest if you all want to see things change you get yours loaded too.

I'd respond more in depth to your insightful post (not being sarcastic, really a very good point) but I am exhausted.

In short: I feel the team is not in a dire straight where it needs to be gutted. I think Knicks are legitimately better than the Nets. Right now i sincerely believe the Knicks can get the division with a 58 win season.

I do what I can. I don't live in NY, and the city is too expensive for me. I protest with my wallet. If the team is not making the right moves, I do not buy merchandise. If the team is doing things I like, i buy things. Shirts, glasses, mugs etc.

That is how I go about it. If the Knicks are a trash team and people are going out proving their fanhood by purchasing all the newest knicks gear, they are feeding the beast. I also don't click the ESPN links anymore. I read what i see here, and that's all I need.

[frizzledizzle]

its also worth mentioning that the depth behind KG and Lopez - two players who havent stayed healthy for a season in quite sometime - are AK-47, Blatche and Evans. well Tetlovic for whatever thats worth and plumlee and Shengelia for whatever thats worth too.


thats not great depth for their bigs which means any injury is compounded with struggles at that position as well as potentially too many mins for whoever remains

They've been healthier than Amare and Bargnani...

Lopez played 82 games each of his first 3 seasons before missing his 4th season but he returned to play 74 games this past season. And KG has basically 70 games of 82 in 3 of the past 4 seasons while only playing 60 of 66 in a shortened season. Bargnani and Amare haven't come close to playing a full season for the past 2-3 seasons. Bargnani the past 3 seasons has played in 66, 31 and 35 games while Amare the past 2 seasons has played in 47 and 29. KG has been playing around 70 games consistently for years now so while he may miss games, it's nothing major and there's no risk of reaggravating a serious injury. That's because he's never had a serious injury. And while Brook Lopez missed an entire season, he also bounced back to play an entire season. Amare and Bargnani on the other hand, Amare has broken down knees and Bargnani has all sorts of problems. First it was his calf that caused him to only play in 31 games. Then it was his elbow that forced him out for the season after 35 games. Seems to me that the odds are much higher for both Amare and Bargnani to miss significant time. In fact, I wouldn't doubt that Amare's career is over.

You're talking about the possibility of two players that were healthy last season getting injured and question their back ups of Kirlenko, Evans and Blatche but I would think Bargnani and Amare should be more of a concern. The same could be said for the depth behind them... if they get hurt, there's Artest and Martin? Martin is another player that's liability to stay healthy considering he's had two microfracture surgeries.

[NoLayupRule]

its also worth mentioning that the depth behind KG and Lopez - two players who havent stayed healthy for a season in quite sometime - are AK-47, Blatche and Evans. well Tetlovic for whatever thats worth and plumlee and Shengelia for whatever thats worth too.


thats not great depth for their bigs which means any injury is compounded with struggles at that position as well as potentially too many mins for whoever remains

They've been healthier than Amare and Bargnani...

and thusly the BS comparisons are made

Bargs and Amare are not as important to this team as KG and Lopez to that
Amare played very little for us last year and we were the 2nd seed
Bargs replaced Camby or Novak, as you will, and thats not a big deal for us

KG and Lopez are the centerpieces to the Niets after Deron. Their health is of paramount importance. We have Amare, Bargs, Kmart, Tyler, Chandler, Melo and MWP so far at the 4/5

[Idee Mixed]

its also worth mentioning that the depth behind KG and Lopez - two players who havent stayed healthy for a season in quite sometime - are AK-47, Blatche and Evans. well Tetlovic for whatever thats worth and plumlee and Shengelia for whatever thats worth too.


thats not great depth for their bigs which means any injury is compounded with struggles at that position as well as potentially too many mins for whoever remains

They've been healthier than Amare and Bargnani...

and thusly the BS comparisons are made

Bargs and Amare are not as important to this team as KG and Lopez to that
Amare played very little for us last year and we were the 2nd seed
Bargs replaced Camby or Novak, as you will, and thats not a big deal for us

KG and Lopez are the centerpieces to the Niets after Deron. Their health is of paramount importance. We have Amare, Bargs, Kmart, Tyler, Chandler, Melo[6'8 230] and MWP[6'7 260] so far at the 4/5

Funny!!! Nets fans can do the same thing.

Nets have KG, Lopez, Blatche, AK-47, Evans, Pierce(6'7 235), Joe Johnson (6'7 240), Teletovic, Shengalia(6'9 240), and Plumlee.

You can hardly argue with age the likelihood of injuries in NBA increases, but to compare last years old Knick players of Sheed, K-Mart, Camby and Kidd to this years old players on Nets of KG, Pierce and Jet is just plain ridiculous. Sheed was called out of retirement, Camby was never health when he played for Knicks last year and his first time around, and Kidd only wanted to play back up PG minutes.

KG will probably play less games this year but that is being planned ahead of time. PP played 77 game last year. Melo played 67.

[NoLayupRule]

Funny!!! Nets fans can do the same thing.

Nets have KG, Lopez, Blatche, AK-47, Evans, Pierce(6'7 235), Joe Johnson (6'7 240), Teletovic, Shengalia(6'9 240), and Plumlee.

You can hardly argue with age the likelihood of injuries in NBA increases, but to compare last years old Knick players of Sheed, K-Mart, Camby and Kidd to this years old players on Nets of KG, Pierce and Jet is just plain ridiculous. Sheed was called out of retirement, Camby was never health when he played for Knicks last year and his first time around, and Kidd only wanted to play back up PG minutes.

KG will probably play less games this year but that is being planned ahead of time. PP played 77 game last year. Melo played 67.

sorry
its different

Joe Johnson and Paul pierce are not PFs no matter what their height is.
Niets have AK-47, Blatche, Evans and the scrubs. they have depth at PF. not so much at center. they have tet and plumlee after lopez and KG

injury is always a difficult thing but often injured guys who are also late in their careers are a good bet to do it again.

Id bet Amare will spend significant time injured.
Ill also bet Lopez and KG will too.

beyond that its luck.

point was the Niets have a lot to worry about with regards to their starting lineup

[Idee Mixed]

Funny!!! Nets fans can do the same thing.

Nets have KG, Lopez, Blatche, AK-47, Evans, Pierce(6'7 235), Joe Johnson (6'7 240), Teletovic, Shengalia(6'9 240), and Plumlee.

You can hardly argue with age the likelihood of injuries in NBA increases, but to compare last years old Knick players of Sheed, K-Mart, Camby and Kidd to this years old players on Nets of KG, Pierce and Jet is just plain ridiculous. Sheed was called out of retirement, Camby was never health when he played for Knicks last year and his first time around, and Kidd only wanted to play back up PG minutes.

KG will probably play less games this year but that is being planned ahead of time. PP played 77 game last year. Melo played 67.

sorry
its different

Joe Johnson and Paul pierce are not PFs no matter what their height is.
Niets have AK-47, Blatche, Evans and the scrubs. they have depth at PF. not so much at center. they have tet and plumlee after lopez and KG

injury is always a difficult thing but often injured guys who are also late in their careers are a good bet to do it again.

Id bet Amare will spend significant time injured.
Ill also bet Lopez and KG will too.

beyond that its luck.

point was the Niets have a lot to worry about with regards to their starting lineup

Well I can make an argument that JJ and PP can play PF. The reality is Melo isnt a PF. He plays there because the Knicks dont have any better options offensively. In JJ and PP case, they have always had a PF so they have never needed to play that position (JJ -Amare, Marion, Smith and Hortford; PP- Walker and KG) Melo is usually defended by SFs regardless of who is playing PF on the opposing team. So JJ and PP can play PF and still be guarded by an opposing SF. JJ and PP will definitely not guard post banging PFs but either should Melo. Melo is superior in breaking down opposing SF or PF off the dribble and elevating over his defender to shoot, but he isnt IMO that superior in the post than JJ or PP. They have more of an arsenal in the post then Melo. In the paint, JJ has a variety of quick floaters while PP has a wicked turn around jumper. So it is not that far fetched that if Melo can play PF so can JJ or PP.

One of the biggest mistakes Knick fans and NBA anal-yst make is the lack of understanding of the versatility of the Nets roster. Most of the players on the Nets can play 2 or more positions. The Knicks have that two but the Nets are much more versatile.

Dwill(PG/SG) JJ(SG/SF), PP(SG/SF), KG(PF/C), Lopez(PF/C)
Liv (PG/SG/SF) Jet(PG/SG), AK(SF/PF), Blatche(PF/C), Evans(PF/C)
and the rest of the bench

Niets have AK-47, Blatche, Evans and the scrubs. they have depth at PF. not so much at center. they have tet and plumlee after lopez and KG

This isnt correct. The versatility is beyond just that.
PF = KG, Blatche, AK, Evans, Televic, Plumlee
C = Lopez, KG, Blatche, Evans, Plumlee

I could throw Lopez in the PF mix too but it isnt necessary to make this point and you would most likely not agree.

[NoLayupRule]

I could throw Lopez in the PF mix too but it isnt necessary to make this point and you would most likely not agree.

Id love to see Lopez at PF

hed get abused on D

Id also love to see jj or pierce there and get eaten alive

Im not saying they dont have versatility though, Im sayign they have major issues with age and injury potential and massive drop off after their starting 5

if they field Blatche or Evans as a starter they have a massive problem with their bench or their defense/offense depending

it'll be interesting

Niets are a tough team
Im not taking that away from them
The Brooklyn Celtics wont be a pushover
i just wish them all the suffering and misery in the world

[Idee Mixed]

I could throw Lopez in the PF mix too but it isnt necessary to make this point and you would most likely not agree.

Id love to see Lopez at PF

hed get abused on D

Id also love to see jj or pierce there and get eaten alive

Im not saying they dont have versatility though, Im sayign they have major issues with age and injury potential and massive drop off after their starting 5

if they field Blatche or Evans as a starter they have a massive problem with their bench or their defense/offense depending

it'll be interesting

Niets are a tough team
Im not taking that away from them
The Brooklyn Celtics wont be a pushover
i just wish them all the suffering and misery in the world

You are going to be disappointed.

KG and PP could play 60 games each and Nets still cruise to top of Atlantic. Lopez could be out for 10+ and Nets still could have a good record.

As for Lopez playing PF, we can argue that too. On Defense, Lopez guards Center. On Offense he plays against PF. Just like you can switch Melo offense/defense the same can be done with JJ, PP or Lopez.

Injuries can happen to any team to any player at any age. Did you think a young Rose would miss an entire year? What happens to Knicks if Melo gets hurt? Dont wish for that type of pain, suffering and misery because the same can happen to the Denver Knicks.

[boomann21]

I assume this has been gone over a lot already, so I'll summarise. The Nets are better than you at... hmm, probably every position in the starting 5. Then they have a better bench too. Plus all their pieces fit together really well, as yours do not. You could argue Chandler over Lopez, I think it depends on the rest of your roster which you'd take, and as a 3 Melo would be better than Pierce obviously... but Melo is your 4, and he can't compare to KG as a 4. KG might be only getting 30mpg next season, and playing 70 games, but that'll be because the Nets are blowing teams out of the water the rest of the time and can afford to rest him. Come playoffs KG will get more minutes. Just not seeing the argument for the Knicks, unless Kidd is a terrible coach.

[boomann21]

That looks bad, but it's misleading because intervening events negated 29/35 votes. Nobody expected Rondo to miss over half the season, while Avery Bradley missed 32 games, and KG another 14. Don't get me wrong, I find Bradley to be overrated, and part of the reason for the error was that commentators didn't predict the degree to which the Celtics would coast/age, but some of those guys probably didn't have the Knicks far behind. The 76ers on the other hand were supposed to be good because of Bynum- who never played for them. It's also not unusual for a few commentators to throw in a wild darkhorse prediction. The Nets were 5 games worse than you in spite of a bad coach who clearly held them back. The Knicks were the beneficiaries of some bad luck on the part of those 3 teams (injuries mostly), but were still not as good as 54 wins suggested (see their 17-13 Western conference record), they just benefitted from a weak East. Next year the East will be a bit better, so they'll benefit less from it.

So you're using the injury excuse as to why the Knicks benefited? The Knicks suffered with injuries of their own too. But hey, let's not mention that because it's "not a big deal", right?

Actually we had the second most games lost to injury in the entire NBA, but we should be able to win anyway, with our ball boys running out there and good team work (green font). The Knicks have no excuse no matter who goes down. Didn't you get the memo?

[Dr. Detfink]

Dunno what's so hard with, going with your own opinion. Trying to mix and match the writer who will say what you want to hear is stupid.

[NoLayupRule]

KG and PP could play 60 games each and Nets still cruise to top of Atlantic. Lopez could be out for 10+ and Nets still could have a good record.

As for Lopez playing PF, we can argue that too. On Defense, Lopez guards Center. On Offense he plays against PF. Just like you can switch Melo offense/defense the same can be done with JJ, PP or Lopez.

Injuries can happen to any team to any player at any age. Did you think a young Rose would miss an entire year? What happens to Knicks if Melo gets hurt? Dont wish for that type of pain, suffering and misery because the same can happen to the Denver Knicks.

I guess your point is that anything can happen

this could happen or that could happen

my point was that the odds are against players who have become chronically injured recently and are getting quite old for the NBA grind