Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It doesn't matter what you label him. If you put him on the floor with Maynor, Rice, Harrington and Seraphin, Vesely will be guarded by the opponent's PF. Actually, the opponent will probably go small and put a SF on the floor to match up with Vesely. That way, they'd get all the floor spacing benefits of a small ball lineup, without any of the defensive problems because Vesely isn't a threat to exploit his size advantage over the opposing SF.

If the Wizards posted up Harrington of Seraphin, the other team would double off of Vesely and put a stop to it.

Vesely is the exact opposite of a mismatch. Instead of giving us any mismatch advantages, he only gives the other team mismatch advantages without any similar benefits coming our way.

The counter to that would be to have Nene at center. Nene is an excellent passer and while Ves doesn't have much offense, the one thing he does do well offensively is pick and cut to the basket for dunks. You put him out there with a passing PG (we have two now), Rice as a range shooter that can also drive (or Beal), an experienced SF/PF S4 in Al Harrington and a passing experience big in Nene who can also curl to the basket, and I think you can get useful minutes from Ves as a glue guy setting picks, cutting, passing and running the court.

Maynor, Rice/Beal, Harrington, Ves, Nene

I like Vesely in this lineup, hands.

I would play Kevin with Okafor

Kevin does play better with Okafor than with Nene, IMO, and per 2-man stats on bskt.-ref.Okafor hits the boards hard. Neither Nene nor Kevin do that. I agree, hands.

I think they are going to go more Nene and Okafor at center while they try lots of line ups. Keep in mind, Kevin S lost weight this summer and Okafor should be better at the foul line shot after another summer of work.

Randy has his work cut out leading into the season. But at least he has a core to work with.

Wall, Maynor, Beal, Webster, Trevor A, A Harrington, Nene, Okafor - Thats 8 right there with the talented
And while not a top talent, Temple is reliable and mature at 27.

Beal is the baby and only core piece with only one year of experience. And since you can play Nene/Okafor at PF/C if you need something to fall back on, they really only need to find a sub set of minutes at PF from Kevin, Ves, and Booker for when Al, Nene or Trevor A aren't playing there. The way the roster is set up, there is room for all three to prove themselves without the team sucking if they don't.

Ves with Nene and Kevin with Okafor. I can see that working given their options at PG/SG/SF.

My bigger question is, where and when does Otto play? If it was up to me, I would keep him around a few weeks then send him to the DL. They don't need him at the beginning of the year. And they already have enough other young player to evaluate/develop. Let him develop in the DL for down the road either here or in a trade package. Send Singleton down with him to keep him company.

I disagree about Okafor taking FT shots. That's not his game. Harrington is on board to take the bulk of those perimeter shots. Leave Okafor on the low blocks.

As far as Kevin playing slimmer, I'm not sure how that will work. His post defense could take a step back. If he's strictly a PF now that changes the mix. I would think Seraphin would be counted on at C.

As far as Porter goes, I think Washington would have been far better off drafting Kelly Olynyk. Otto can play point forward but I don't see a role for him right away. OTOH, the Wizards could have plugged Olynyk in any number of line ups. I especially wanted to see Olynyk team with Jan Vesely. Porter gets to develop slowly if the Wizards are wise enough to send him to D-League. I doubt they will, though. From what I saw in SL, Vesely's better than Porter right now.

Singleton IMO needs to be traded or just released. He's a nice player but there's no way he's better than Ariza or Webster or Okafor or Nene or Booker. He's not freakishly unique like Vesely. He's not a tank like Seraphin. He didn't get drafted in the lottery like Porter. Singleton can't score like Rice. I think he's odd man out.

Then again, Wittman likes Singleton more than he likes Vesely IMO. I don't know.

[hands11]

I think they are going to go more Nene and Okafor at center while they try lots of line ups. Keep in mind, Kevin S lost weight this summer and Okafor should be better at the foul line shot after another summer of work.

Randy has his work cut out leading into the season. But at least he has a core to work with.

Wall 23, Maynor 26, Beal 20, Webster 26, Trevor A 28, A Harrington 33, Nene 30, Okafor 30 - That's 8 right there. And while not a top talent, Temple is reliable/disciplined and mature at 27. That's 9 players that you pretty much know what you are going to get. That understand the game and are coachable.

This is no longer a team that needs to count on inexperience youth projects, though they still have several on the team. Beal is the only core of that 8 with one year experience and Beal is the TheRealDealBeal already.

And since you can play Nene/Okafor at PF/C if you need something to fall back on, they really only need to find a sub set of minutes at PF from Kevin, Ves, and Booker/Singleton for when Al, Nene or Trevor A aren't playing there. The way the roster is set up, there is room for all three/four to prove themselves without the team sucking if they don't.

Ves with Nene and Kevin with Okafor. I can see that working given their options at PG/SG/SF.

My bigger question is, where and when does Otto play? If it was up to me, I would keep him around a few weeks then send him to the DL. They don't need him at the beginning of the year. And they already have enough other young players to evaluate/develop. Let him develop in the DL for down the road either here or in a trade package. Send Singleton down with him to keep him company.

[hands11]

Good to hear the stats show Kevin plays better with Okafor.

As for where Okafor scores from... given we have two PGs to run the offense and enough options for outside shooters at SG and SF to spread and balanced the floor, this is what I was thinking Kevin and Okafor could look like when playing together.

Okafor as the prime defensive rebounder so Kevin can get out and run. Let the young pup burn the extra energy. So I guess Okafor as the defensive C but Kevin as the offense center with Okafor playing more like the offensive PF. Most the time at least.

Kevin worked to expand his range last year. You can look that up on the shot chart thingy. So did Okafor as well. Both are clearly better scoring in the post but you can't have then both there at the same time. Kevin was also clearly worse from the right side but I have seen him working on that a lot over the summer. So there is overlap. Either can play C or PF. But I want Kevin doing more work inside on offense.

Kevin has the hook moves pretty well established so if you play him some on the blocks, you would hope the work he put in over the summer shows and he can make some more moves toward the basket, get fouled, etc. I also expect him to have gained some experience passing out of the post. At a min, he won't suck at it. He seemed to start to get a handle on reading the double later in the year. He will keep getting better at that. With experience, things will slow down for him. Plus Nene should be an excellent teacher on how to read things. Nene is one of the best post passers in the league. And Kevin draws some doubles in the post. I don't recall seeing Okafor draw a double.

As for Okafor, I trust him more from the top from the FT line than Kevin. Okafor won't shot to often or to early in the clock. Okafor is more disciplined. He knows his spot at the corner line he wants to shoot from and he practiced it before every game last year. I expect with another summer and everyone knowing the offense better, he will be more effective from there this year. I want to see Kevin develop more around the basket. That allow Okafor to crash the boards as well or some the key, he can get back on D.

That was the thinking in general behind what I posted. I think with the type of players they are, there is clearly overlap. You can switch them between PF and C for the most part. Even between offense and defense. For now, I would want Okafor as the D Center and Kevin as the offensive Center. Generally speaking. This would be to keep Kevin from quick launching from outside on offense and get him to move toward the basket more. Hopefully losing some weight will help him get up faster for offensive rebounds if Okafor shoots from the line, and allow him to do quick Nene moves toward the basket for DUNKS. Kevin does seem to do well putting in time on specific moves during practice. I even saw some video of him working on a one handed Nene like pre-move so he was standing higher so he had a better view of the floor like Nene does. If he can get that, he should be able to pass out of doubles better and find a few lanes to drive when they don't. Remember, that's Nene's Minny Me project so I hope to see some Nene moves rubbing off on him now that Nene is back in town to work with him a second year.

[hands11]

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/i ... condensed/

Czech vs Georgia is on now.

[closg00]

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/id/1081351/size/condensed/

Czech vs Georgia is on now.

This game is a laugher, the Czechs up around 20. Tomas and Jan leading in scoring.

[hands11]

Ves 27 & 10 vs Georgia

So how we going to get some of these Georgia players onto other NBA teams so Ves can do that in the NBA ?

Problem is, he is doing most his work in the paint against weak post players. You can't get away with that in the NBA. And he was 3/8 from the free throw line. And I didn't see him take any outside shots or do any individual moves.

Glad he is posting good numbers. If you listen to the announcer, he was totally pimping Ves as a good player. One of the best in the tournament. Problem is, I still haven't seen him doing anything new. Not a lot of what he is doing is going to translate. Georgia's defense was terrible.

But all things being equal, at least Ves is getting some of his swag back and posting numbers like that should raise his value if the Wizards decide to trade him.

Ves is leading the league in rebounds after 3 games ?

1st in Rbs
1st in 2PFG Made
2nd in FG made
4th in steals
7th in FG %
9th in blocks (tied)
14th in Pts

15.7 pts 11.7 rbs 1 ast 1 blk 2.3 stls

[BigA]

Ves 27 & 10 vs Georgia

So how we going to get some of these Georgia players onto other NBA teams so Ves can do that in the NBA ?
<snip>

Rotate Ernie through the rest of the league's front offices?

[flipwise]

I wanted to believe in the hype he had created with his previous Eurobasket games, but he really showed his weaknesses yesterday. Shot 1-10 from the free throw line and was shut down by Ante "Too-Soft-For-The-NBA" Tomić. I think I saw him take one or two jumpshots, but you can tell just from the way he shoots that his confidence is totally shot. He clearly should not spend a minute playing C and definitely needs a stretch big playing with him at all times at this point.

[closg00]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2013/9/9/ ... w-shooting

That wasn't the way that Jan Vesely wanted to end Eurobasket 2013.

Thanks to a cringe-worthy 1-10 performance from the free-throw line, Vesely had his worst game of the week, scoring 11 points and grabbing 11 rebounds on 5-12 shooting in a 70-53 loss to Croatia. The loss dropped the Czech Republic to 2-3 and prevented it from securing the top-3 spot in Group C that it needed to advance.

It's scary how bad Vesely looks at the line. Any thought that the angst of the Wizards crowd contributed to Vesely's free-throw struggles can be thrown out the window after his 11-31 performance in the tournament. (Yes, it was that bad).

Sadness, we just need to move-on and waive him now, he has no trade value.

[nate33]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2013/9/9/4711612/jan-vesely-eurobasket-czech-republic-free-throw-shooting

That wasn't the way that Jan Vesely wanted to end Eurobasket 2013.

Thanks to a cringe-worthy 1-10 performance from the free-throw line, Vesely had his worst game of the week, scoring 11 points and grabbing 11 rebounds on 5-12 shooting in a 70-53 loss to Croatia. The loss dropped the Czech Republic to 2-3 and prevented it from securing the top-3 spot in Group C that it needed to advance.

It's scary how bad Vesely looks at the line. Any thought that the angst of the Wizards crowd contributed to Vesely's free-throw struggles can be thrown out the window after his 11-31 performance in the tournament. (Yes, it was that bad).

Sadness, we just need to move-on and waive him now, he has no trade value.

Yup. 11-31 from the FT line? This is the new and improved Vesely? Put a fork in him.

As I've said before, it's just not worth it. Vesely has some interesting intangibles, but he's inadequate at the meat and potatoes aspects of basketball. Once you put him on the floor, you have to radically change the system and personnel to try and make up for all the things he doesn't provide.

[pineappleheadindc]

I recommend that Ted Leonsis give Ernie Grunfeld a 3-year extension to clean up the organization of players who have no visible basketball skills. Ernie has proven to be a master at cleaning up problem squads.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ernie first creates dysfunctional problem squads by drafting low-basketball-IQ players, great athletes who aren't good basketball players, and by acquiring an occasional miscreant like Javaris Crittenton. Ernie doesn't draft the Farieds and he spends all his cap up before he can acquire a guy like Blair. Ernie acquires penny wise and pound foolish rosters.

But his pure genius is just what Pine mentioned. Ernie is a master of cleaning up problems squads. The players he praised in the past, even though they all come from his criteria above (low IQ, miscreant, freak athlete but fatally flawed player, etc)--EG vilifies them when things go wrong with the Wizards. EG cleans up the roster by getting rid of the "problem" players.

Grunfeld has found a renewable energy source, so to speak, type of job security. Ernie's going to keep his job forever . He gets to champion perpetual rebuild, in pursuit of mediocrity ... FOREVER.

[closg00]

Ernie first creates dysfunctional problem squads by drafting low-basketball-IQ players, great athletes who aren't good basketball players, and by acquiring an occasional miscreant like Javaris Crittenton. Ernie doesn't draft the Farieds and he spends all his cap up before he can acquire a guy like Blair. Ernie acquires penny wise and pound foolish rosters.

But his pure genius is just what Pine mentioned. Ernie is a master of cleaning up problems squads. The players he praised in the past, even though they all come from his criteria above (low IQ, miscreant, freak athlete but fatally flawed player, etc)--EG vilifies them when things go wrong with the Wizards. EG cleans up the roster by getting rid of the "problem" players.

Grunfeld has found a renewable energy source, so to speak, type of job security. Ernie's going to keep his job forever . He gets to champion perpetual rebuild, in pursuit of mediocrity ... FOREVER.

This season reminds me of the Foye/Miller season, Ernie has everything in-place for a one-shot/one-year run at the playoffs. We make our run with Okafor/Ariza expiring and no credible front court depth in the wings. We reset the tables again next-year with Ernie at the helm.

[dobrojim]

Grunfeld's relative merits or lack thereof aside, why should we view this
coming year as a one shot/one year run? Is something likely to happen
to Wall, Beal, Porter, Webster...after this coming season? Please elaborate
on the basis of this prediction.

[closg00]

Grunfeld's relative merits or lack thereof aside, why should we view this
coming year as a one shot/one year run? Is something likely to happen
to Wall, Beal, Porter, Webster...after this coming season? Please elaborate
on the basis of this prediction.

Do you consider the playoffs a lock next-year with a core of Wall, Beal, Porter and Webster??? I don't.

THIS-year we do have a very good shot at making the playoffs, but we do not yet know what Ernie will "get" in potential Okariza trades nor do we know who he will attempt to panic-sign during the next off-season.

Bottom-line is that we are looking at another potential rebuild after this season....unless Booker, Vesely, Seraphin etc are all signed.

[dobrojim]

I wouldn't be surprised if Okafor is re-signed to a significantly lower deal.
Ariza may leave but Porter will a year wiser in NBA experience.
More importantly, Wall (and Beal) will both be that much closer to
being in their prime. Sure it would be nice if we had a young 2 way
big in the picture as well but to describe our situation as one and done
as you have sounds like Chicken Little to me.

[DCZards]

There's a very good chance that the Zards resign Okafor rather than trade him. They should at least seriously consider it. I think Emeka likes what the Zards are starting to build here, especially the backcourt of Wall and Beal, and the role he's playing. And I'm sure that a bright guy like Emeka enjoys living in an international city like DC and all it has to offer.

And I doubt that Okafor will expect (or warrant) anywhere near the salary he's made the last few years.

Plus a 6-11 to 7 foot workout warrior who defends, rebounds, plays smart basketball, is unselfish, and is a locker room leader is a good thing to have around. Think Tyson Chandler and what he was able to contribute to the Mavs championship team (and the Olympic team) despite having a very limited offensive game.

[payitforward]

There's a very good chance that the Zards resign Okafor rather than trade him. They should at least seriously consider it. I think Emeka likes what the Zards are starting to build here, especially the backcourt of Wall and Beal, and the role he's playing. And I'm sure that a bright guy like Emeka enjoys living in an international city like DC and all it has to offer.

And I doubt that Okafor will expect (or warrant) anywhere near the salary he's made the last few years.

Plus a 6-11 to 7 foot workout warrior who defends, rebounds, plays smart basketball, is unselfish, and is a locker room leader is a good thing to have around. Think Tyson Chandler and what he was able to contribute to the Mavs championship team (and the Olympic team) despite having a very limited offensive game.

Agree 100%. Didn't like the trade for him, but at a much lower price I'd be delighted to sign him for a couple of years.

Note that we might resign him even if we do trade him. He's expiring.

[hands11]

I wouldn't be surprised if Okafor is re-signed to a significantly lower deal.
Ariza may leave but Porter will a year wiser in NBA experience.
More importantly, Wall (and Beal) will both be that much closer to
being in their prime. Sure it would be nice if we had a young 2 way
big in the picture as well but to describe our situation as one and done
as you have sounds like Chicken Little to me.

And Nene.

I see no reason to worry yet. There are lots of options so I'm just going to continue looking forward to this year with the roster they have because that is what we know. Are there questions regarding what the roster will look like next year ? Sure. But there aren't any huge road blocks in the way of them molding the roster through trades, resigning, draft, etc.

First things first. Get Wall and Beal into the playoffs and continue to mold this team with them as stars. In my view, the primary goal is to do that while keeping options open moving forward. They are the long term core and from what it looks like, if you have those two, you are off to a really good start in molding a roster. But both are still young so you need vets around them. That means at least one other solid upper quality vet..like a healthy Nene, and several mid teir vets like Okafor, Trevor A, Al types. After a winning season, the Wizards will have more access to a wider range of those players, including those very names.

Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene, Okafor could easily still be the core next year. From their its about depth, cap space and tradeable assets/contracts to build up depth or find a better players.

I think what most of us expect moving forward is that between Ves, Kevin, Booker and Singleton, there is going to be some clean up. After that, we will have to see what Trevor A, Al and Okafor decide. I expect at least one will resign for a fair deal. After that, they need to decide if Otto is a piece they want to keep or trade.

Randy On Ves over the Summers.
http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... zards-hope

Randy is doing to right thing. He is supporting Ves to build him up. Put for Ves, I won't feel like he has don't anything of significance until he starts making Free Throws. That is step 1 in expanding his game. He needs to do that if he wants to be a utility role player.

[hands11]

For what its worth. Ves stats in Euro ball.

» Ranks #11 in Minutes (33,0)
» Ranks #8 in Double-Doubles

Ranks #1 in Total Rebounds (11,7)
» Ranks #1 in Offensive Rebounds (5,0)
» Ranks #4 in Defensive Rebounds (6,7)

» Ranks #3 in Steals (2,3)

» Ranks #1 in 2 Pts Field Goals Made (6,7)
» Ranks #2 in Field Goals Made (6,7)
» Ranks #13 in Points Per Game (15,7)

» Ranks #6 in Field Goal Percentage (54,1%)
» Ranks #11 in Field Goals Attempted (12,3)
» Ranks #10 in 2 Pts Field Goal Percentage (55,6%)
» Ranks #2 in 2 Pts Field Goals Attempted (12,0)

» Ranks #15 in Blocked Shots (1,0)

Good for him. Now make your Free Throws.