Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[nate33]

For what its worth. Ves stats in Euro ball.

» Ranks #11 in Minutes (33,0)
» Ranks #8 in Double-Doubles

Ranks #1 in Total Rebounds (11,7)
» Ranks #1 in Offensive Rebounds (5,0)
» Ranks #4 in Defensive Rebounds (6,7)

» Ranks #3 in Steals (2,3)

» Ranks #1 in 2 Pts Field Goals Made (6,7)
» Ranks #2 in Field Goals Made (6,7)
» Ranks #13 in Points Per Game (15,7)

» Ranks #6 in Field Goal Percentage (54,1%)
» Ranks #11 in Field Goals Attempted (12,3)
» Ranks #10 in 2 Pts Field Goal Percentage (55,6%)
» Ranks #2 in 2 Pts Field Goals Attempted (12,0)

» Ranks #15 in Blocked Shots (1,0)

Good for him. Now make your Free Throws.

The rebounding numbers are the most impressive. Though, part of it was because his team played small ball with Vesely at center. Somebody had to get the rebounds.

[nuposse04]

At the same time, he also had compete against guys he's clearly weaker then, to get said rebounds. The Czech team isn't made to maxmize Jan's abilities (as few as they are) but he still produced acceptably. With our supposed 2nd unit being Maynor (playmaker), Ariza/Porter (decent from 3 pt land), Glen (also a decent shooter) and Seraphin (well ****) he should have alleys to work with.

However, he still will be dead weight unless he learns to hit FTs though. His form looked fine in SL and it seemed he was hitting above half there, kinda surprising it dipped again in euro play. He's almost as bad as Drummond at the line.

[hands11]

For what its worth. Ves stats in Euro ball.

» Ranks #11 in Minutes (33,0)
» Ranks #8 in Double-Doubles

Ranks #1 in Total Rebounds (11,7)
» Ranks #1 in Offensive Rebounds (5,0)
» Ranks #4 in Defensive Rebounds (6,7)

» Ranks #3 in Steals (2,3)

» Ranks #1 in 2 Pts Field Goals Made (6,7)
» Ranks #2 in Field Goals Made (6,7)
» Ranks #13 in Points Per Game (15,7)

» Ranks #6 in Field Goal Percentage (54,1%)
» Ranks #11 in Field Goals Attempted (12,3)
» Ranks #10 in 2 Pts Field Goal Percentage (55,6%)
» Ranks #2 in 2 Pts Field Goals Attempted (12,0)

» Ranks #15 in Blocked Shots (1,0)

Good for him. Now make your Free Throws.

The rebounding numbers are the most impressive. Though, part of it was because his team played small ball with Vesely at center. Somebody had to get the rebounds.

And hopefully him playing center, even when overseas, helps square it in his mind that he needs to develop in the front court. The SF days are over. Time to move on and develop in a different way.

I still think you get the most out of him if you flank him with experience such as Webster/Trevor A/Al on one side and a passing big that can score like Nene on the other.

Let him have some success first doing what he actually can do first. Let him tackle the FT shooting issue. Then work on growing his outside shooting and dribble drive or post move game. If he is going to make it, his game needs developed a piece at a time.

[penbeast0]

For all that he can't do, he's still got some strong positives. The length, the quickness, good defensive instincts from what I've seen (not that much unfortunately), makes a move or gets rid of the ball quickly which is a big plus offensively. I still think a Birdman type career is quite possible if he gets an opportunity.

[hands11]

For all that he can't do, he's still got some strong positives. The length, the quickness, good defensive instincts from what I've seen (not that much unfortunately), makes a move or gets rid of the ball quickly which is a big plus offensively. I still think a Birdman type career is quite possible if he gets an opportunity.

So much is whats between the ears makes a Birdman or a Rodman or even World Peace what they are. While crazy, that crazy is also part of makes them mentally effective. They have a single mindedness on the court.

Ves mentally is kind of the opposite of them. We would need to hook him up with some drugs and some grinder hoes.

Where is Dray when you need him most. I knew we should have kept him.

[dangermouse]

Jesus man.......

[closg00]

Jesus man.......

Seriously, I have October 31st circled on my calendar. The madness must stop then.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Vesely probably just got renewed. Okafor and Singleton are out. Jan moved up in the rotation and IMO will probably have a bounce back year.

[nuposse04]

Vesely probably just got renewed. Okafor and Singleton are out. Jan moved up in the rotation and IMO will probably have a bounce back year.

Of Seraphin and him, I think Jan has a better chance to improve. Easier to find some confidence then manifest competence.

[hands11]

Vesely probably just got renewed. Okafor and Singleton are out. Jan moved up in the rotation and IMO will probably have a bounce back year.

Of Seraphin and him, I think Jan has a better chance to improve. Easier to find some confidence then manifest competence.

I think Kevin can have a good year. While I have wanted him to develop so he can play more PF, clearly he shoots more effectively when he shoots the hook and that has him playing close to the basket as a center. Okafor out will allow for that and adding AH as a S4 options spreads the floor when Kevin is in. Nene, Okafor and Kevin are all more effective around the basket so pairing any two of them forces them to shoot from mid range while the other is in the post. Pairing them with a PF that has range helps a lot. Key for Kevin will be to work with Nene to learn to pass out of the center position.

Ves will play better with better players around him. Most important is Nene at center because he can pass while Ves cuts. Two 3 ball shooters in the corner and Wall at PG, and Ves can just play his game. Set picks, pass, cut, dunk, quick outlet passes and go for offensive put backs. And run the floor. And with Nene in the post and Ves setting picks, he is coming from the outside in and moving, where he is more effective. A Birdmanish type game. All that is stuff he can already do. Now if he can add a mid range, that would just be icing on the cake because with Wall, Beal, any of our SFs that can shoot well from outside and Nene in the post, Ves isn't going to be asked to shoot. FT shooting though is going to be required.

I think both can be more productive with Okafor out. I would try Ves with the starters even if he doesn't start the game and I would have Kevin with AH with Kevin in the post as back up center. Then you have Webster, Trevor, and Otto to play SF and help back up SG if needed with Ves, AH and Booker at PF. And Trevor A or Webster at PF if needed. Beal, Webster, Temple, Glen and even Trevor A can all play SG and you have Wall with Mayor at PG with Temple if needed and even Beal getting test minutes there.

When Okafor returns, I would imagine it would be in more limited minutes and that means as a back up center this year. And that what I wanted to see anyway.

24janvesely
5 hours ago
DC tomorrow. Cant wait. #playoff #wizards #dc
http://instagram.com/p/edN5jWNYIp/#

I was wondering when he would return to DC. Looks like he is on his way batteries recharged. Says he can't wait to get here and he must be excited knowing there could be minutes to be had with Okafor out opening things up in the front court.

As long a Nene doesn't go down, Okafor going out might just help their record this year as long as Okafor return at some point and is ready for the playoff. And it helps them sign him cheaper if they want. And it puts Kevin and Ves in a position to raise their value.

This could really be a blessing in disguise not having Okafor right away.

[nate33]

Vesely probably just got renewed. Okafor and Singleton are out. Jan moved up in the rotation and IMO will probably have a bounce back year.

Of Seraphin and him, I think Jan has a better chance to improve. Easier to find some confidence then manifest competence.

Vesely has neither confidence or competence. He needs to manifest both, which is pretty unlikely. He is utterly useless on offense except as a pure garbage player. Defensively, he gets absolutely humiliated in the post and on the boards. He's fine off the ball and in pick and roll situations.

Seraphin is a much more skilled player fundamentally. He just hasn't put it all together. He's a pretty good midrange shooter for a big man. He has elite efficiency with his hook shot in the post. He's a very good post defender. He's a pretty good help defender and pick and roll defender. What he doesn't do well is rebound and pass out of double teams; and he has poor shot selection. The shot selection issue will certainly be easier to improve than Vesely's overall lack of game. And the passing out of double teams is likely to improve, if only incrementally, with maturity and experience. The part I'm really concerned about is rebounding. That rarely improves much.

[nate33]

As long a Nene doesn't go down, Okafor going out might just help their record this year as long as Okafor return at some point and is ready for the playoff. And it helps them sign him cheaper if they want. And it puts Kevin and Ves in a position to raise their value.

This could really be a blessing in disguise not having Okafor right away.

I don't think we can make the playoffs if Okafor misses most of the season because Nene isn't going to stay healthy all year. But other than that, I think you make a good point. If Okafor misses the first 25 games or so, it might be a blessing in disguise. Hopefully, Nene can absorb a higher minute load for that stretch of time which makes us a better team. And hopefully one of Vesely, Booker or Seraphin break out given the minutes available. If one of them becomes a competent starting-caliber player, that will make us a much stronger team in the playoffs.

[Induveca]

I was shooting around in Belgium a few days ago, ended up playing just half court garbage ball with some younger guys. Long story short asked me my NBA team, babbled about Seraphin who they seemed to like.

I thought one young kid's French summation of Vesely was spot on.

Something to the effect of Vesely is very fast and runs by everyone in EU ball, basically that was his entire game. But in the NBA it's not possible, as most players are faster/stronger than him. Went on to babble about the best US Football (soccer) players failing miserably in the EU, same thing in basketball for EU to US blah blah.

Found it pretty spot on. Most over here still seem to think Navarro is the best player of their generation. Again though, too slow/weak for the NBA.

[hands11]

As long a Nene doesn't go down, Okafor going out might just help their record this year as long as Okafor return at some point and is ready for the playoff. And it helps them sign him cheaper if they want. And it puts Kevin and Ves in a position to raise their value.

This could really be a blessing in disguise not having Okafor right away.

I don't think we can make the playoffs if Okafor misses most of the season because Nene isn't going to stay healthy all year. But other than that, I think you make a good point. If Okafor misses the first 25 games or so, it might be a blessing in disguise. Hopefully, Nene can absorb a higher minute load for that stretch of time which makes us a better team. And hopefully one of Vesely, Booker or Seraphin break out given the minutes available. If one of them becomes a competent starting-caliber player, that will make us a much stronger team in the playoffs.

Ya, not saying they have it all worked out but there was a lot of clutter. This inadvertently helps in that area. Should make Randy's preseason camp a little easier to figure out. Losing Singleton is not a big deal. Didn't think he would even be on the active 13 anyway.

Not sure this is the right place for this but with the new injuries, I worked out some line ups.

If you go with more known established players, you get something like this.

Wall/Manyor
Beal/Temple/Glen
Trevor A/Otto
Webster/AH/Booker/Ves
Nene/Kevin

Kevin make 3/4 of his hooks. Put him in the post with a S4.
This works well for getting Otto mins at SF and seeing what Temple can do. I think Temple could be an UTR type story. Also there are plenty of mins for Trevor A, Otto and Webster.

or

Ves at PF with Nene and range shooting SF will work since Nene can score, pass, defend and box out.
Good floor spacing either way they go. It really comes down to defense and rebounding.

Wall 36/Manyor 12
Beal 30/Otto 14/Temple/Glen (Otto and Webster in the corners)
Trevor A 24/Webster 24 (interchangable)
Ves 22 /AH 26/Booker
Nene 26/Kevin 22

This is give you line ups that are bigger. Ves gets his shot over Temple.

You can swop Booker for Ves if you want and get better rebounding and strength.
If this either are productive, you don't even have to over play Nene
Trevor A starts maybe because of his defense.
Something tell me Webster would gel with AH faster then Trevor also.
I heard some rumors about them starting Otto playing some SG and bringing him along slowly. 14 minutes as a back up hybrid SG/SF with Webster being the same could work nicely.

Our defense is going to most likely take a hit without Okafor but the offense should be better. Its just a matter getting more offense then you lose in defense. And this allows them to get a look at Ves and Kevin in situations where both should be more efficient because you are not relying on them to do things they can't already do mostly. Ves only need to be Ves and improve his FT shooting and Kevin can be Kevin shooting hooks and only needs to improve his passing from post ( Nene teaching ) and rebound more aggressively. I think it realistic to expect both of them to show improvements in those areas.

[closg00]

I was shooting around in Belgium a few days ago, ended up playing just half court garbage ball with some younger guys. Long story short asked me my NBA team, babbled about Seraphin who they seemed to like.

I thought one young kid's French summation of Vesely was spot on.

Something to the effect of Vesely is very fast and runs by everyone in EU ball, basically that was his entire game. But in the NBA it's not possible, as most players are faster/stronger than him. Went on to babble about the best US Football (soccer) players failing miserably in the EU, same thing in basketball for EU to US blah blah.

Found it pretty spot on. Most over here still seem to think Navarro is the best player of their generation. Again though, too slow/weak for the NBA.

Clint Dempsey has risen through USA soccer and is now a successful player in EU soccer.

[Induveca]

And? Dirk Nowitzki has done well.....missed the entire point. Many EU basketball players look better against lesser competition. That would be Vesely.

Our idiot GM was incapable of realizing his "skills" would not translate. Namely speed and dunking over flat footed vertical challenged Baltic players.

[closg00]

And? Dirk Nowitzki has done well.....missed the entire point. Many EU basketball players look better against lesser competition. That would be Vesely.

Our idiot GM was incapable of realizing his "skills" would not translate. Namely speed and dunking over flat footed vertical challenged Baltic players.

I get your overall point, but your statement about US football (soccer) players failing at EU soccer, is not entirely true. You are spot-on about our "unanimous" scouting team failing to identify that Vesely essentially has no basketball skills.


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[tontoz]

Vesely was also voted on here as the player we most wanted NOT to draft. It just blows my mind that what was so obvious to us somehow escaped the notice of people who are paid to make these decisions.

[nate33]

Vesely was also voted on here as the player we most wanted NOT to draft. It just blows my mind that what was so obvious to us somehow escaped the notice of people who are paid to make these decisions.

It's probably because our scouting staff watched a lot more tape of Vesely against inferior European competition where he looked good. It only mislead them.

We lacked most of that video and saw only a few highlights of championship level games where Vesely didn't look so good. Then we checked out Vesely's stats (like his horrible FT percentage and mediocre rebounding) and came away unimpressed. Finally, we observed that he was so light in the haunches that he couldn't possibly hold his position against PF's.

[hands11]

Seems they don't use the same red flag indicators most here use like the ones you mentioned. If a player can't shoot FTs, thats a huge red flag for me. Short of a player like Shaq, not many players can over come that and if they haven't learned to do that by the time they are 18, that says a lot about them to me.

You should be able to at least hit 70% as a min. And if you are below that, you better be a monster rebounder.

And when I watch a player, fast break drunks might be the least impressive thing to me. Dunking off the dribble in half court is way more impressive. It shows you have some handles and a move or two.

Back to FT shooting. There is just zero excuse in my mind for shooting 50% then 30%. Get a shooting coach and practice. Its not that complicated. Its not like he is uncoordinated. So thats a huge red flag to me because it goes to dedication, focus and maturity.

Ves would have been a real nice mid/late first, early second pick depending on the draft class. In 2-3 more year he could be a reliable starter or quality reliable bench player. That said, he could start this year with the right players around him but that's different then being a "starter" all on his own.

If EG has any one major flow, its shooting for long term potential over sound production with upside. He would have probably drafted Joe Alexander if he had a chance. Funny thing is we are talking about wanting Asik. Well Asik was available at 36 the year McGee was drafted.