Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LXI Countdown To Preseason)

[Orlwillbeback]

LOL the Mavs are signing everybody!

[Orlwillbeback]

If Oladipo can really hone in on his ball handling/security skills and try to not make a habit picking the ball up once passed half court he could be a decent point guard when matched up to the right opponent. I think he'll struggle being matched up to top tier point guards especially ones that play good D.

disagree dipo will be fine

These new athletic big pgs are the future of the league.

I understand but athleticism can only get you so far. If this were the case Dequan would still be playing for us because he was an athletic freak.



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

Did you watch the summer league?

[BadMofoPimp]

LOL the Mavs are signing everybody!

FYI. They haven't signed Duhon yet!

[Orlwillbeback]

LOL the Mavs are signing everybody!

FYI. They haven't signed Duhon yet!

ROFL GIVE EM TIME

[MagicStarwipe]

Did anyone expect Dipo to run the PG as well as he did in summer league? He improved at it with every game he played. It was expected to be an unmitigated disaster, but he actually ran it better than some other rookie true PG's and was maybe the best player to lace up his sneakers that week. Not saying he is definitely our future at PG. Who knows really? My only point is the dude is a baller.

[Bensational]

Did anyone expect Dipo to run the PG as well as he did in summer league? He improved at it with every game he played. It was expected to be an unmitigated disaster, but he actually ran it better than some other rookie true PG's and was maybe the best player to lace up his sneakers that week. Not saying he is definitely our future at PG. Who knows really? My only point is the dude is a baller.

yeah, he really impressed me. guy's gonna get heaps better, and even if he's not a pure PG in the end, he'll be more than capable of running the offense when needed.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Did anyone expect Dipo to run the PG as well as he did in summer league? He improved at it with every game he played. It was expected to be an unmitigated disaster, but he actually ran it better than some other rookie true PG's and was maybe the best player to lace up his sneakers that week. Not saying he is definitely our future at PG. Who knows really? My only point is the dude is a baller.

i don't think he ran pg well at all.....he brought the ball up the court and attacked the basket. He wasn't out there setting up plays and executing. Sure he found guys off the bounce but thats no different than what jameer does now which most of you say make him a nontraditional pg.

If he's stays the course I think he's what myself and a few others had said pre draft and that is he's a secondary ball handler in the half court like harden.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Blue_and_Whte]

The question wasnt wether or not they would play him at both guard spots, the question was would he be successful at playing pg which the jury is still out on.

When I brought it up before the draft, it sure was an issue. Sure the jury is still out but it is on everyone on this team.

Can Jameer shoot a decent percentage without Dwight?
Can Harris maintain or surpass what he did last year?
Can Harkless improve his shot and handles?
Can Vuc continue to rebound at the same clip while adding more offense to his game?
Can Nicholson keep up on D and rebound better?
Can BBD accept a lesser role?
Can Afflalo?
Etc....

This year will definitely be interesting.

That's actually a great list of questions. If we add "Can Oladipo be a productive pg for at least half of his minutes?" to the end of the list, here are my predictions (though I am, of course, hoping for the best in all cases):

Meer -- Yes, but only if he's held under 25 mpg
Harris -- Yes
Hark -- Only minimally
Vooch -- yes
Nicholson -- no
BBD -- yes
Afflalo -- yes
Dipo -- yes, though this is the prediction I'm least confident about

harkless will improve more than minimally. He's already showed improvement in ball handling, shooting, and attacking the basket. WHEN he improves he'll be at the same level as Harris who's maxing out at 17 and 6...quote me if you want.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[94_MagicFan]

Jones gonna outshine mclemore

[rcklsscognition]

Saw harkless on banners outside Amway. One he was talking to grant hill and the other tmac had his arm around him. Looks like they're all in with moe.

[dsg2021]

Saw harkless on banners outside Amway. One he was talking to grant hill and the other tmac had his arm around him. Looks like they're all in with moe.

The potential is as high as ever, despite the changing up and down outlooks over the year, his overall shot chart distribution and shots at rim were impressive and his defense and athleticism are actually both showing out there. He had many confident experiences with some big defensive assignments handled capably and many good overall offensive games. Those two games of his against title contenders in OKC and SAS were "wow there's something there" moments.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Saw harkless on banners outside Amway. One he was talking to grant hill and the other tmac had his arm around him. Looks like they're all in with moe.

The potential is as high as ever, despite the changing up and down outlooks over the year, his overall shot chart distribution and shots at rim were impressive and his defense and athleticism are actually both showing out there. He had many confident experiences with some big defensive assignments handled capably and many good overall offensive games. Those two games of his against title contenders in OKC and SAS were "wow there's something there" moments.

+1


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[NEM]

harkless will improve more than minimally. He's already showed improvement in ball handling, shooting, and attacking the basket. WHEN he improves he'll be at the same level as Harris who's maxing out at 17 and 6...quote me if you want.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

Since I feel like we have beat the harkless talks to death this offseason, I won't even go there. The question I have for you is, based on what will Harris "max out" at 17 and 6? He was 18 and 8 during his time with the magic last year... Thats from the time he got traded here until the end of the season... So he has surpassed this max that you set out for him already, at the age of 20.

I'll give you an example of this... That's like me saying harkless will max out at 7 and 3, when he averaged 8 and 4 last year.

I just want to know what you are basing your assumption off of, because to me they are both on an even playing field. Neither one has an advantage over the other that would change their numbers drastically, yet you are so high on harkless, but could care less for Harris... Don't get me wrong, to me it doesn't matter which one beasts because they are both on my team. I want both of them to be hall of famers lol...

[rcklsscognition]

Luckily we're grasping for things to talk about. It's been a good minute since we talked about Harkless. The numbers say Harris has pretty much peaked in PER 36. He's had just about the same numbers from his junior year in college to now, regardless of team, role, position. I feel very confident he's going to be very close to 18 and 7 for his career.

Harkless projects at 13/6/3 or something like that. The reason he gets hyped is that he is considered as inexperienced with room to grow. People view him as a rookie and Harris as a vet, despite their very similar age. I've said it before, I'd give Harkless to the AS break and see what his PER 36 is looking like. Odds are he'll be showing us his career average in PER 36 by the break.

[Blue_and_Whte]

harkless will improve more than minimally. He's already showed improvement in ball handling, shooting, and attacking the basket. WHEN he improves he'll be at the same level as Harris who's maxing out at 17 and 6...quote me if you want.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

Since I feel like we have beat the harkless talks to death this offseason, I won't even go there. The question I have for you is, based on what will Harris "max out" at 17 and 6? He was 18 and 8 during his time with the magic last year... Thats from the time he got traded here until the end of the season... So he has surpassed this max that you set out for him already, at the age of 20.

I'll give you an example of this... That's like me saying harkless will max out at 7 and 3, when he averaged 8 and 4 last year.

I just want to know what you are basing your assumption off of, because to me they are both on an even playing field. Neither one has an advantage over the other that would change their numbers drastically, yet you are so high on harkless, but could care less for Harris... Don't get me wrong, to me it doesn't matter which one beasts because they are both on my team. I want both of them to be hall of famers lol...

there are always players that are removed out of an unfavorable situation like Harris onto a new team and play with a chip on their shoulder. In addition to that nobody really knows what they can do so they take the league "by storm" so to speak.

Take Lin for example, a casual fan would've thought this kid was well on his way to becoming a HOF, then teams adjusted, reality set in and now he's hit his ceiling. Basically everyone went bananas over a third tier pg.

If a player gets an opportunity where he's really the best option at any position, with no competition and that player is good enough, then they'll look fantastic. I think Harris was averaging 18 and 7 in 26 games while being given the green light to do whatever he wants. in those 26 games he matched his per almost identically which is great but mot an indicator that hes going to be an elite player. Harris is a good player but I think he has a lower ceiling than people think.

Harkless to me isn't that far behind Harris in terms of offense. People harp about his 27% 3pt shooting when comparing the two players failing to recognize that Harris is only shooting it at a 31% clip. Defensively Harkless is better IMO and think there's a reason he was guarding the opposing teams best players.

I thought he showed significant improvement in areas I thought would take longer to develop he essentially was given the same opportunity Harris was given, I agree with you, but I thought he developed at a faster rate where as Harris matched his pers both o the NBA level and collegiate level.

That's not to say Harkless is going to be a elite player either, I just feel he has a higher ceiling that Harris and that they're a lot closer than people think.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[NEM]

harkless will improve more than minimally. He's already showed improvement in ball handling, shooting, and attacking the basket. WHEN he improves he'll be at the same level as Harris who's maxing out at 17 and 6...quote me if you want.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

Since I feel like we have beat the harkless talks to death this offseason, I won't even go there. The question I have for you is, based on what will Harris "max out" at 17 and 6? He was 18 and 8 during his time with the magic last year... Thats from the time he got traded here until the end of the season... So he has surpassed this max that you set out for him already, at the age of 20.

I'll give you an example of this... That's like me saying harkless will max out at 7 and 3, when he averaged 8 and 4 last year.

I just want to know what you are basing your assumption off of, because to me they are both on an even playing field. Neither one has an advantage over the other that would change their numbers drastically, yet you are so high on harkless, but could care less for Harris... Don't get me wrong, to me it doesn't matter which one beasts because they are both on my team. I want both of them to be hall of famers lol...

there are always players that are removed out of an unfavorable situation like Harris onto a new team and play with a chip on their shoulder. In addition to that nobody really knows what they can do so they take the league "by storm" so to speak.

Take Lin for example, a casual fan would've thought this kid was well on his way to becoming a HOF, then teams adjusted, reality set in and now he's hit his ceiling. Basically everyone went bananas over a third tier pg.

If a player gets an opportunity where he's really the best option at any position, with no competition and that player is good enough, then they'll look fantastic. I think Harris was averaging 18 and 7 in 26 games while being given the green light to do whatever he wants. in those 26 games he matched his per almost identically which is great but mot an indicator that hes going to be an elite player. Harris is a good player but I think he has a lower ceiling than people think.

Harkless to me isn't that far behind Harris in terms of offense. People harp about his 27% 3pt shooting when comparing the two players failing to recognize that Harris is only shooting it at a 31% clip. Defensively Harkless is better IMO and think there's a reason he was guarding the opposing teams best players.

I thought he showed significant improvement in areas I thought would take longer to develop he essentially was given the same opportunity Harris was given, I agree with you, but I thought he developed at a faster rate where as Harris matched his pers both o the NBA level and collegiate level.

That's not to say Harkless is going to be a elite player either, I just feel he has a higher ceiling that Harris and that they're a lot closer than people think.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

you cant really compare lin's sitaution to harris'... also lin had a good 10 game stretch... he came back to earth after that stretch, once teams got scouting reports on him. harris' game doesnt consist strictly of line drives to the basket, if you take that away, he can hit the mid range jumper, and has enough of a handle to create his own shot. as for "taking the league by storm" tobias had 27 games... it usually takes teams ~10 games to catch on to the player... this wasnt a fluke thats gonna be easy to guard (as evidenced by his career per 36).

while i agree that harris may have been given the green light, it doeesnt change the fact that he was CONSISTENTLY iced out by nelson and/or afflalo, and even udrih when jameer went down. its not like he was putting up these numbers while he was chucking the ball every which way. he put up the numbers on a very efficient TS%.

you compared harkless to harris on offense, and said that harkless isnt that far behind harris. you then cited the 4% difference from the 3 point line. you failed to mention that harkless almost exclusivley shot from the short corner 3. when comparing both players' 3 point percentages from the regular distance 3, harris shot 32.9% on the year (not just with us), and harkless shot 24.3 on the year... THAT is a huge difference. You also never mentioned ball handling skills, since that is offense. Harris got into the lane using his handle, and often times dumped the ball off for nik or AN for an easy finish at the rim. harkless simply cannot handle the ball. he never has been able to. not in high school, not in college. meanwhile harris has been a point forward his entire career (high school, college, pros). harkless jumpshot mechanics also suggest that he is strictly a spot up shooter, due to the fact that it takes him a long time to get his shot off, another reason i dont ever see him as the paul geroge/tracy mcgrady some of you guys have labeled him as.

finally, you say harkless is a better defensive player than harris. defensive ratings suggest that they are exactly the same. ill keep it at exactly the same, though personally, i feel that harris is slightly better, which is not to say that harkless doesnt wind up a better defender because he certainly has the physical tools for it.

when it's all said and done, and this isnt fair to do to either player, but i expect their best statistical years to go something like this:

Harris:
22 ppg, 8 rpg, 3 apg, 1.3 bpg, 1.0 spg

Harkless:
14 ppg, 7 rpg, 2 apg, 1.4 bpg, 1.1 spg

[tiderulz]

Did anyone expect Dipo to run the PG as well as he did in summer league? He improved at it with every game he played. It was expected to be an unmitigated disaster, but he actually ran it better than some other rookie true PG's and was maybe the best player to lace up his sneakers that week. Not saying he is definitely our future at PG. Who knows really? My only point is the dude is a baller.

i don't think he ran pg well at all.....he brought the ball up the court and attacked the basket. He wasn't out there setting up plays and executing. Sure he found guys off the bounce but thats no different than what jameer does now which most of you say make him a nontraditional pg.

If he's stays the course I think he's what myself and a few others had said pre draft and that is he's a secondary ball handler in the half court like harden.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

it was summer league with guys that have never and will never make the nba. How many plays did you think they really knew, so that he could get into them?

[rcklsscognition]

I am still feeling wary of hyping Oladipo based on summer league vs scrubs and a goodman league game we saw a few highlights from. I'll re access hype level around Christmas.

[Orlwillbeback]

harkless will improve more than minimally. He's already showed improvement in ball handling, shooting, and attacking the basket. WHEN he improves he'll be at the same level as Harris who's maxing out at 17 and 6...quote me if you want.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

Since I feel like we have beat the harkless talks to death this offseason, I won't even go there. The question I have for you is, based on what will Harris "max out" at 17 and 6? He was 18 and 8 during his time with the magic last year... Thats from the time he got traded here until the end of the season... So he has surpassed this max that you set out for him already, at the age of 20.

I'll give you an example of this... That's like me saying harkless will max out at 7 and 3, when he averaged 8 and 4 last year.

I just want to know what you are basing your assumption off of, because to me they are both on an even playing field. Neither one has an advantage over the other that would change their numbers drastically, yet you are so high on harkless, but could care less for Harris... Don't get me wrong, to me it doesn't matter which one beasts because they are both on my team. I want both of them to be hall of famers lol...

there are always players that are removed out of an unfavorable situation like Harris onto a new team and play with a chip on their shoulder. In addition to that nobody really knows what they can do so they take the league "by storm" so to speak.

Take Lin for example, a casual fan would've thought this kid was well on his way to becoming a HOF, then teams adjusted, reality set in and now he's hit his ceiling. Basically everyone went bananas over a third tier pg.

If a player gets an opportunity where he's really the best option at any position, with no competition and that player is good enough, then they'll look fantastic. I think Harris was averaging 18 and 7 in 26 games while being given the green light to do whatever he wants. in those 26 games he matched his per almost identically which is great but mot an indicator that hes going to be an elite player. Harris is a good player but I think he has a lower ceiling than people think.

Harkless to me isn't that far behind Harris in terms of offense. People harp about his 27% 3pt shooting when comparing the two players failing to recognize that Harris is only shooting it at a 31% clip. Defensively Harkless is better IMO and think there's a reason he was guarding the opposing teams best players.

I thought he showed significant improvement in areas I thought would take longer to develop he essentially was given the same opportunity Harris was given, I agree with you, but I thought he developed at a faster rate where as Harris matched his pers both o the NBA level and collegiate level.

That's not to say Harkless is going to be a elite player either, I just feel he has a higher ceiling that Harris and that they're a lot closer than people think.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

The notion that Tobias benefited from a midseason trade so that no one knew what he was capable of and so we must now be more expecting of Harkless' improvement is fallacious because Harkless was a rookie last year so no one knew what he was capable of either.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Since I feel like we have beat the harkless talks to death this offseason, I won't even go there. The question I have for you is, based on what will Harris "max out" at 17 and 6? He was 18 and 8 during his time with the magic last year... Thats from the time he got traded here until the end of the season... So he has surpassed this max that you set out for him already, at the age of 20.

I'll give you an example of this... That's like me saying harkless will max out at 7 and 3, when he averaged 8 and 4 last year.

I just want to know what you are basing your assumption off of, because to me they are both on an even playing field. Neither one has an advantage over the other that would change their numbers drastically, yet you are so high on harkless, but could care less for Harris... Don't get me wrong, to me it doesn't matter which one beasts because they are both on my team. I want both of them to be hall of famers lol...

there are always players that are removed out of an unfavorable situation like Harris onto a new team and play with a chip on their shoulder. In addition to that nobody really knows what they can do so they take the league "by storm" so to speak.

Take Lin for example, a casual fan would've thought this kid was well on his way to becoming a HOF, then teams adjusted, reality set in and now he's hit his ceiling. Basically everyone went bananas over a third tier pg.

If a player gets an opportunity where he's really the best option at any position, with no competition and that player is good enough, then they'll look fantastic. I think Harris was averaging 18 and 7 in 26 games while being given the green light to do whatever he wants. in those 26 games he matched his per almost identically which is great but mot an indicator that hes going to be an elite player. Harris is a good player but I think he has a lower ceiling than people think.

Harkless to me isn't that far behind Harris in terms of offense. People harp about his 27% 3pt shooting when comparing the two players failing to recognize that Harris is only shooting it at a 31% clip. Defensively Harkless is better IMO and think there's a reason he was guarding the opposing teams best players.

I thought he showed significant improvement in areas I thought would take longer to develop he essentially was given the same opportunity Harris was given, I agree with you, but I thought he developed at a faster rate where as Harris matched his pers both o the NBA level and collegiate level.

That's not to say Harkless is going to be a elite player either, I just feel he has a higher ceiling that Harris and that they're a lot closer than people think.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

The notion that Tobias benefited from a midseason trade so that no one knew what he was capable of and so we must now be more expecting of Harkless' improvement is fallacious because Harkless was a rookie last year so no one knew what he was capable of either.

you don't HAVE to be more expecting of Harkless.. That's just my opinion. I've seen enough Harris-esqe situations to know that we should wait to see him as starting 4 full time. I just think IMO that Harkless will be just as good if not better.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app