Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread

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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#421 » by JV4MVP » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:39 pm

TheCustodian wrote:Yea, I like me some good conspiracy theory every now and then, but this losing on purpose talk is pretty silly.


I wrote this in another thread:

Tops teams such as Spain and Greece struggled against teams with good bigs. LTU is stacked at C/PF so that is one incentive to avoid Lithuania. Spain and Greece made a mistake in having only 1 good C.

Spain lacks a backup for Gasol... Rey is not that good. And Spain goes as far as playing Claver at PF.

If they played LTU they would have to contain two 7-footers simultaneously (among JV, D. Lav, K. Lav, D-Mo, Javtokas) as opposed to just Krstic. And Gasol will be exhausted this late in the tournament whereas LTU can rotate a lot of guys. To beat Serbia you pretty much need to just contain Krstic. Serbia's guards don't have much of a chance against Spain's guards.


I stand to argue that some strange things happened late in the 4th quarter, let alone Spain blowing a 15 3rd quarter lead. Calderon fouling 3 pt shooter, Rodriguez 0-2 FT late, Lull 0-2 FT in OT, Gasol's absent defense, Spain letting perimeter guys open late, defense on last play in regular time, Spain's attempt at layups when down 5 with less than 30 seconds left.

Also Spain allows a 11-0 run for Italy late in the 4th?
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#422 » by MagnusPinus » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:44 pm

How do u like Gentile from an Nba perspective JV4MVP?? I know he doesn't look like a prototypical role player (cos he is not), but he is so talented he can't stay in Europe :D :D What u think?
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#423 » by JV4MVP » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:56 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:How do u like Gentile from an Nba perspective JV4MVP?? I know he doesn't look like a prototypical role player (cos he is not), but he is so talented he can't stay in Europe :D :D What u think?


He's very skilled and has good size. I like that he can create a shot for himself and handle the ball.

The challenge in the NBA would be for him to defend super athletic players. He would likely be a liability at SF, and obviously too small for PF. I also don't think he would be able to dribble the ball like that around faster defenders. But if he continues to use his high IQ and develop a great jumpshot then he can be decent, possibly a Manu at SF.

The biggest concern is how he plays when he doesn't have the ball b.c. in the NBA he wouldn't be good enough yet to play a point-forward type of position. He also sometimes takes tough shots but at least it lets him stay focused on the game. In the NBA he would be a shorter leash though.

We won't know until he tries. Hopefully his father prepares him well.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#424 » by CaptainFanchini » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:16 pm

Ops ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEWQfBpdR_M[/youtube]
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#425 » by Santastic » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

Finland destroying Slovenia so far, it's possible Slovenia clinch the third spot to avoid France?
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#426 » by JV4MVP » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:30 pm

Santastic wrote:Finland destroying Slovenia so far, it's possible Slovenia clinch the third spot to avoid France?


Win or Loss they will finish 2nd as they hold the tie breaker against Italy. This game is meaningless for them. Hence Goran Dragic played less than 5 minutes.

They will play France in the QT finals.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#427 » by suckfish » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:56 pm

Been rooting for Ukraine pretty hard.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#428 » by Notanoob » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:38 am

Hey, can anyone give me a quick scouting report on Ukraine v. Croatia? I'm curious because I'm Ukrainian myself, and I haven't been able to watch any of these games live.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#429 » by Chalk1 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:02 am

So Ukraine is hosting in 2015. Seems like if they get all their top talent to be available they could be a contender with the home court advantage.

Throw in Len, Pecherov, Fesenko and added improvement from Lypovyy, Pustovyi, Mishula, Gladyr, and possibly even an 18 year old Mykhailiuk, and maybe, just maybe, they get into the Olympics.

Or I'm just drinking the Ukrainian Kool Aid. :D




Gentile is sure fun to watch. Cusin has surprised me. didn't think he had much to contribute by the looks of him.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#430 » by Mass Rig » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:43 am

Really first class officiating so far. The gap with the NBA is so huge that it is embarrassing.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#431 » by CaptainFanchini » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:51 am

Image

Image
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#432 » by JV4MVP » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:13 pm

Image

The games will be now shown live on NBATV:

Wednesday 11:30AM EST
Spain vs. Serbia

Image vs. Image

Wednesday 3PM
Slovenia vs. France

Image vs. Image

Thursday 11:45AM
Croatia vs. Ukraine

Image vs. Image

Thursday 3PM ♔
Lithuania vs. Italy

Image vs. Image
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#433 » by JV4MVP » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:38 pm

Notanoob wrote:Hey, can anyone give me a quick scouting report on Ukraine v. Croatia? I'm curious because I'm Ukrainian myself, and I haven't been able to watch any of these games live.


I've watched 2 Ukraine games. Here are my observations:

- They rely on American Pooh Jeter's outside shooting. He has good range but doesn't drive to the basket as well as MCalleb or Rice, and he isn't that pesky of a defender.
- Gladyr is a great 3 pt shooter when he is set. Once he dribbles he gets into trouble.
- Ukraine is coached by legendary NBA coach Mike Fratello. In addition to hearing him curse in English in the huddle you can witness his solid defensive tactics (trapping at half court)
- The bigs seem to play dirty, at least against Lithuania. They threw elbow and so forth.
- Center Natyzhko has the ability to make a open 3.

Regarding Croatia:

- Bogdanovic is a good outside shooter and has a midrange game, including posting up. He is bulky for his position and uses his size well to get into scoring positions. Just a monster scorer.
- Tomic is tall and skinny but is very skilled at C. He is arguably a top 3 C in this tournament.
- Roko Ukic had a short NBA career and runs the point. He has struggled shooting in this tournament but is always dangerous.
- Croatia in general is very balanced with a decent bench. Ppl underrated them and shouldn't be surprised at their record.
- Dario Saric is their future but his minutes have decreased since the beginning of the tournament. His production is still impressive for a 19 year old.

I think Croatia has a 80% chance of winning. They're better inside and on the perimeter. Bogdanovic may be able to score at will. Their players are more experienced at the Euroleague level. Ukraine will have to play a perfect game to have a chance, perhaps use their physicality to disturb Croatia.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#434 » by aporel18 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:14 pm

JV4MVP wrote:
Notanoob wrote:Hey, can anyone give me a quick scouting report on Ukraine v. Croatia? I'm curious because I'm Ukrainian myself, and I haven't been able to watch any of these games live.


I've watched 2 Ukraine games. Here are my observations:

- They rely on American Pooh Jeter's outside shooting. He has good range but doesn't drive to the basket as well as MCalleb or Rice, and he isn't that pesky of a defender.
- Gladyr is a great 3 pt shooter when he is set. Once he dribbles he gets into trouble.
- Ukraine is coached by legendary NBA coach Mike Fratello. In addition to hearing him curse in English in the huddle you can witness his solid defensive tactics (trapping at half court)
- The bigs seem to play dirty, at least against Lithuania. They threw elbow and so forth.
- Center Natyzhko has the ability to make a open 3.

Regarding Croatia:

- Bogdanovic is a good outside shooter and has a midrange game, including posting up. He is bulky for his position and uses his size well to get into scoring positions. Just a monster scorer.
- Tomic is tall and skinny but is very skilled at C. He is arguably a top 3 C in this tournament.
- Roko Ukic had a short NBA career and runs the point. He has struggled shooting in this tournament but is always dangerous.
- Croatia in general is very balanced with a decent bench. Ppl underrated them and shouldn't be surprised at their record.
- Dario Saric is their future but his minutes have decreased since the beginning of the tournament. His production is still impressive for a 19 year old.

I think Croatia has a 80% chance of winning. They're better inside and on the perimeter. Bogdanovic may be able to score at will. Their players are more experienced at the Euroleague level. Ukraine will have to play a perfect game to have a chance, perhaps use their physicality to disturb Croatia.


I don't think Tomic is a top 3 Center in this tournament, Gasol and Krstic are the top 2, then it's Bourousis, Valanciunas, Tomic and Begic ( in a tournament where Gortat and Asik looked like hot garbage...), but he's very skilled, and if he had better lateral mobility he'd be playing in the NBA.

Croatia's best players so far, IMO, are Draper and Bogdanovic. Draper is a great defender and he gives the team consistency. Bogdanovic is a great scorer, and he has the tools to be a good defender if Kidd and the Nets can get him to develop his defensive skills.

Saric was playing great against Greece, and I don't get why Repesa didn't use him in the 4th quarter, when Fotsis and Kaimakoglou were killing Zoric/Rudez and Tomic/Rudez. I also didn't get why Trinchieri buried Perperoglou in the bench and why Bourousis, the best big man on the court, wasn't playing with Fotsis to close the game.

Ukraine has good players, lot of length, but they are a bit inconsistent and lack killer instinct. They are missing some of their best players, also, but if Croatia isn't playing at their best, Ukraine has the players to knock them out of the tournament.

The quarterfinals will be great: Serbia vs Spain, Lithuania vs Italy, Slovenia vs France are going to be epic games. Spain should be favorites, but Serbia has Krstic and a plethora of young talented kids, Bogdan Bogdanovic is going to be a Super Star. Lithuania has an advantage over Italy inside, but italian wingers are shooting lights out and you never know. France has probably a better squad, but the Dragic brothers and home court will make it very interesting. Croatia has, on paper, an easier path to semifinals, but they better be focused.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#435 » by JV4MVP » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:12 pm

aporel18 wrote:The quarterfinals will be great: Serbia vs Spain, Lithuania vs Italy, Slovenia vs France are going to be epic games. Spain should be favorites, but Serbia has Krstic and a plethora of young talented kids, Bogdan Bogdanovic is going to be a Super Star. Lithuania has an advantage over Italy inside, but italian wingers are shooting lights out and you never know. France has probably a better squad, but the Dragic brothers and home court will make it very interesting. Croatia has, on paper, an easier path to semifinals, but they better be focused.


Yea will be a fantastic start to the quarterfinals. My predictions for these games:

75% that Spain beats Serbia. They're just too talented. Gasol can contain Krstic and Spain's guards are far more experienced than Serbia's.

50% that Slovenia beats France. France has struggled and has yet to beat a quality opponent. You can't overlook Batum or Parker nevertheless. Still, Slovenia has Dragic and Nachbar, and home court advantage. I think this will be the best game and will be a coin toss.

60% that Lithuania beats Italy. It is safer to prefer the interior dominant team than the one on the perimeter. Lithuania usually does a good job on stopping one key player but Italy has 3 weapons: Belinelli, Datome and Gentile. If Italy shoots well and is able to get enough offensive rebounds than LTU is in trouble.

80% that Croatia beats Ukraine. Croatia is too talented with Tomic, Bogdanovic and Ukic. Ukraine benefited from being in a weak Group A and Serbia was the only good team they've beat thus far. They will have to be perfect to win. UKR will be good when Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk turns 20
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#436 » by mixerball » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:51 pm

i think serbia is a great matchup for spain

two great centers, bunch of good guards on both sides, but nobody can contain bjelica. Plus legendary serbian coach.

51% for serbia :)
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#437 » by Toxicity » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:01 pm

JV4MVP wrote:60% that Lithuania beats Italy. It is safer to prefer the interior dominant team than the one on the perimeter. Lithuania usually does a good job on stopping one key player but Italy has 3 weapons: Belinelli, Datome and Gentile. If Italy shoots well and is able to get enough offensive rebounds than LTU is in trouble.


Italy actually has 4 weapons: you forgot Pietro Aradori aka The Shark... :wink:

Gentile 14.6 ppg
Belinelli 14.1 ppg
Datome 14.0 ppg
Aradori 13.4 ppg

Lithuania's best scorer, Kalnietis, is scoring just 9.9 ppg... they don't even have a 10+ ppg guy. But they're very deep and big...

I agree with you about the %: Lithuania is the favourite but not so clear like Croatia-Ukraine quarter final...
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#438 » by Laure » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:07 pm

Toxicity wrote:
JV4MVP wrote:60% that Lithuania beats Italy. It is safer to prefer the interior dominant team than the one on the perimeter. Lithuania usually does a good job on stopping one key player but Italy has 3 weapons: Belinelli, Datome and Gentile. If Italy shoots well and is able to get enough offensive rebounds than LTU is in trouble.


Italy actually has 4 weapons: you forgot Pietro Aradori aka The Shark... :wink:

Gentile 14.6 ppg
Belinelli 14.1 ppg
Datome 14.0 ppg
Aradori 13.4 ppg

Lithuania's best scorer, Kalnietis, is scoring just 9.9 ppg... they don't even have a 10+ ppg guy. But they're very deep and big...

I agree with you about the %: Lithuania is the favourite but not so clear like Croatia-Ukraine quarter final...


That's precisely why Lithuania is the favourite. There's a new leader every game offensively and they arguably have the best defense in the tournament against a team with established leaders. There's little room for suprise when it comes to Italy, but I agree, Lithuania will have an handful to contain these guys and will have a much tougher time than Croatia.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#439 » by MilesTeg » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:53 pm

Well, wouldn't a deeper team do worse in an elimination game? The starters will play more, and they won't be able to feast on bad bench players.

In any case, I'd be really surprised if Italy won. They've had a great tournament though, I hope they make it to the WC.
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Re: Official Eurobasket 2013 Thread 

Post#440 » by MilesTeg » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:58 pm

aporel18 wrote:
JV4MVP wrote:
Notanoob wrote:Hey, can anyone give me a quick scouting report on Ukraine v. Croatia? I'm curious because I'm Ukrainian myself, and I haven't been able to watch any of these games live.


I've watched 2 Ukraine games. Here are my observations:

- They rely on American Pooh Jeter's outside shooting. He has good range but doesn't drive to the basket as well as MCalleb or Rice, and he isn't that pesky of a defender.
- Gladyr is a great 3 pt shooter when he is set. Once he dribbles he gets into trouble.
- Ukraine is coached by legendary NBA coach Mike Fratello. In addition to hearing him curse in English in the huddle you can witness his solid defensive tactics (trapping at half court)
- The bigs seem to play dirty, at least against Lithuania. They threw elbow and so forth.
- Center Natyzhko has the ability to make a open 3.

Regarding Croatia:

- Bogdanovic is a good outside shooter and has a midrange game, including posting up. He is bulky for his position and uses his size well to get into scoring positions. Just a monster scorer.
- Tomic is tall and skinny but is very skilled at C. He is arguably a top 3 C in this tournament.
- Roko Ukic had a short NBA career and runs the point. He has struggled shooting in this tournament but is always dangerous.
- Croatia in general is very balanced with a decent bench. Ppl underrated them and shouldn't be surprised at their record.
- Dario Saric is their future but his minutes have decreased since the beginning of the tournament. His production is still impressive for a 19 year old.

I think Croatia has a 80% chance of winning. They're better inside and on the perimeter. Bogdanovic may be able to score at will. Their players are more experienced at the Euroleague level. Ukraine will have to play a perfect game to have a chance, perhaps use their physicality to disturb Croatia.


I don't think Tomic is a top 3 Center in this tournament, Gasol and Krstic are the top 2, then it's Bourousis, Valanciunas, Tomic and Begic ( in a tournament where Gortat and Asik looked like hot garbage...), but he's very skilled, and if he had better lateral mobility he'd be playing in the NBA.


No love for Ajinca? He has arguably better stats than Bourousis, definitely better than Tomic and Begic, and more team success. (at the risk of sounding like a homer :p)

Edit: forgot that he has better stats than Valanciunas too.

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