Why is there no talk about AA dismissal?

[Waylon Mercy]

Besides AA how many holdovers are left from the Ricardi regime?

[Schad]

Besides AA how many holdovers are left from the Ricardi regime?

In terms of the baseball operations people, two of the three top lieutenants -- Tony LaCava and Andrew Tinnish -- have been in the organization for a decade or more. Jay Sartori is a more recent hire, formerly of the Natinals and MLB's labour relations department previous.

[The_Hater]

Firing him would be beyond short-sighted.

AA talked about this as a 3 year window, season 1 obviously didn't turn out well with far too many key players having dreadful and/or injury plagued seasons. But after suffering through Gord Ash and JP Riccardi I'm pretty confident in saying that the Jays currently have their best GM in a very long time.

I'm interested in seeing how he rebuilds the starting pitching this off-season but at the very least he's starting from a much better position then he did last year.

[Waylon Mercy]

Besides AA how many holdovers are left from the Ricardi regime?

In terms of the baseball operations people, two of the three top lieutenants -- Tony LaCava and Andrew Tinnish -- have been in the organization for a decade or more. Jay Sartori is a more recent hire, formerly of the Natinals and MLB's labour relations department previous.

I wonder how many scouts as well...I'd give those guys 2 more years tops then I'd
wipe all the old holdovers out and start from scratch.

[Schad]

I wonder how many scouts as well...I'd give those guys 2 more years tops then I'd
wipe all the old holdovers out and start from scratch.

Scouting isn't really our problem. Neither are the assistant GMs, who are widely considered to be among the best in the league.

LaCava and Tinnish might not be here in two years, but that's largely because they might be GMs of another team. LaCava is perpetually listed as the top first-time candidate for positions, and turned down the Baltimore job not long ago.

[Waylon Mercy]

I wonder how many scouts as well...I'd give those guys 2 more years tops then I'd
wipe all the old holdovers out and start from scratch.

Scouting isn't really our problem. Neither are the assistant GMs, who are widely considered to be among the best in the league.

LaCava and Tinnish might not be here in two years, but that's largely because they might be GMs of another team. LaCava is perpetually listed as the top first-time candidate for positions, and turned down the Baltimore job not long ago.

Scouting isn't a problem? This team hasn't found a stud since the 90's

[Schad]

Scouting isn't a problem? This team hasn't found a stud since the 90's

The expansion of our scouting staff happened after the Ash/Ricciardi era, so I don't think they can be blamed for the failings then.

And given that the scouting staff is responsible for what was the strongest farm system in baseball (the depth of which was then used to swing a couple massive trades), the scouting is not the problem, no.

[Waylon Mercy]

Scouting isn't a problem? This team hasn't found a stud since the 90's

The expansion of our scouting staff happened after the Ash/Ricciardi era, so I don't think they can be blamed for the failings then.

And given that the scouting staff is responsible for what was the strongest farm system in baseball (the depth of which was then used to swing a couple massive trades), the scouting is not the problem, no.

That's the thing we had supposedly one of the best farm systems and even though it's
way to early to make a judgement on those players right now it seems none of those
players seem to be special. It's nice to win the Baseball America and Sickel's power rankings
but you'd rather hope they produce at the big league level.

[Schad]

That's the thing we had supposedly one of the best farm systems and even though it's
way to early to make a judgement on those players right now it seems none of those
players seem to be special. It's nice to win the Baseball America and Sickel's power rankings
but you'd rather hope they produce at the big league level.

This is a nonsensical argument, because none of the players who have been expected to reach the big league level at this point. Most were drafted as high school kids, and thus are 21 or younger.

[Waylon Mercy]

That's the thing we had supposedly one of the best farm systems and even though it's
way to early to make a judgement on those players right now it seems none of those
players seem to be special. It's nice to win the Baseball America and Sickel's power rankings
but you'd rather hope they produce at the big league level.

This is a nonsensical argument, because none of the players who have been expected to reach the big league level at this point. Most were drafted as high school kids, and thus are 21 or younger.

Obviously I'm talking about the guys above them and I'm glad the Jays were able to recognize
it with some of them in the Marlins trade.

[Schad]

So your reasoning is that those prospects -- who have not failed yet -- will fail because our scouting is bad, and the evidence that the scouting is bad lies in the fact that those prospects who have not failed yet will fail...?

[Waylon Mercy]

There is obviously problems within the organization and not just bad luck like many like
to pin it on. We've already discussed the coaching and management to death but there needs
to be a microscope under the scouts.

When a franchise hasn't drafted a stud since the 90's some alarm bells need to go off. Obviously
there is some scouts that have only been around for a few years and they aren't the ones
I'm concerned with. However we have seen a wave of Jays prospects whether they're still with
us or been traded come up to the big league level in the last 3 years and how many of them
have turned heads and looked they will be impact players or have a high ceiling?

You aren't gonna win in this division if you're scouts aren't finding any gems for almost a
decade and a half and that trend doesn't look like it's gonna end any time soon.

[Schad]

When a franchise hasn't drafted a stud since the 90's some alarm bells need to go off. Obviously
there is some scouts that have only been around for a few years and they aren't the ones
I'm concerned with. However we have seen a wave of Jays prospects whether they're still with
us or been traded come up to the big league level in the last 3 years and how many of them
have turned heads and looked they will be impact players or have a high ceiling?

Most of them haven't reached the bigs because they are too young. As for how many have a high ceiling? That's a long list.

[Graham's Cracker]

When a franchise hasn't drafted a stud since the 90's some alarm bells need to go off. Obviously
there is some scouts that have only been around for a few years and they aren't the ones
I'm concerned with. However we have seen a wave of Jays prospects whether they're still with
us or been traded come up to the big league level in the last 3 years and how many of them
have turned heads and looked they will be impact players or have a high ceiling?

Most of them haven't reached the bigs because they are too young. As for how many have a high ceiling? That's a long list.

Waylon, If anything, the current scouting emphasis is a model based on the successful system of the 90's. Of the 15 players drafted in the 90's that posted 10+ career WAR, 11 of them were high school choices. They did reach the majors faster on average (age ~22.6), and this might speak to the current regimes cautious promotion stratey (which many have criticized as being overly cautious).

[Waylon Mercy]

When a franchise hasn't drafted a stud since the 90's some alarm bells need to go off. Obviously
there is some scouts that have only been around for a few years and they aren't the ones
I'm concerned with. However we have seen a wave of Jays prospects whether they're still with
us or been traded come up to the big league level in the last 3 years and how many of them
have turned heads and looked they will be impact players or have a high ceiling?

Most of them haven't reached the bigs because they are too young. As for how many have a high ceiling? That's a long list.

Waylon, If anything, the current scouting emphasis is a model based on the successful system of the 90's. Of the 15 players drafted in the 90's that posted 10+ career WAR, 11 of them were high school choices. They did reach the majors faster on average (age ~22.6), and this might speak to the current regimes cautious promotion stratey (which many have criticized as being overly cautious).

I commend the Jays for changing their approach after Riccardi's tenure and trying to rebuild the
farm system and looking at drafting high school players over College players because they have
a higher ceiling. The Jays were also considered to have one of the best farm systems in baseball
the last few years.

But it's become quite apparent to me that is was more depth than high end talent. Whether it's
been the prospects we've traded or the prospects we've kept I can't say there is one player I've
been excited about or see as being a difference maker at the Major League level. The only one
who looked decent to me was TDA but he blew out his knee and is off to rocky start with the Mets.
Even though I've been an AA critic I've never questioned the Malins deal because I knew we were giving
them a pile of crap and at the very least getting one of the best SS in baseball.

I may be jumping the gun a bit but I don't care what the pundits say (the pundits also thought
we'd be a contender this year) the Jays have major problems and it's extremely frustrating seeing
teams in our division find and develop quality major leaguers like we use to in the 80's and 90's and
we continue to find and develop crap.

[akakalakin]

AA fired yet?

[Santoki]

AA fired yet?

Come back in October of next year and you'll have your answer one way or another.