JV at EuroBasket 2013 is Done, Lithuania Gets Silver

JV4MVP · Post #2221 » by **JV4MVP** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:31 pm

Is this Italy or the Raptors?

Epic 4th quarter meltdown. Casey would love it.

Feel bad for Italy though, they've played great

ATLTimekeeper · Post #2222 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:32 pm

Lithuania dodged a bullet when Belinelli got hurt.

UcanUwill · Post #2223 » by **UcanUwill** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:33 pm

blocked wrote:Yeah, sounds like smart coaching to me. As compared to Casey, who let's players ruin the game.
See - Motiejunas is so much better in this game than Val - and he gets his minutes.

He has no problem when Kleiza is ruining the game though. Every coach has his favorites. Yeah, ok, I understand this, and I am not blaming the coach. Just saying, in situation where you play in 2 minute stretches, in can be hard to find your game. Some players gets subbed out while their tires are still cold you know.

Marchulenis · Post #2224 » by **Marchulenis** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:33 pm

Stop talking about Kazlauskas fault with JV play - he just sucks in this Eurobasket. I don't care what do you say. Everybody is just owning him, Italy, the smallest team of the EB destroys him. Lav's are much better. Just shut up, please. Sorry for the bad words, but I'm enought of this BS about JV being god. He's looking terrible now, just sit him on the bench. He had like one good game. LTU's NT isn't some farming system for you. They need to win, and they are playing the best players atm. That's all.

Vorticity · Post #2225 » by **Vorticity** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:33 pm

JV4MVP wrote:Belinelli > Demar Derozan.

Seriously.

KD seems to agree

JV4MVP · Post #2226 » by **JV4MVP** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:34 pm

UcanUwill wrote:He has no problem when Kleiza is ruining the game though. Every coach has his favorites. Yeah, ok, I understand this, and I am not blaming the coach. Just saying, in situation where you play in 2 minute stretches, in can be hard to find your game. Some players gets subbed out while their tires are still cold you know.

He just yanked Kleiza immediately after that stupid turnover.

Clementine9 · Post #2227 » by **Clementine9** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:36 pm

BackseatBoss wrote:
Clementine9 wrote:
BackseatBoss wrote:Jesus Christ... So Lithuanian fans will be the same as Italian fans were with Bargs? Why is it so hard to understand that he's having a horrible game?

Statwise of course he is. How do you expect a guy to have a good game when he is yanked off the floor every 2 minutes and doesn't get any touches on offense, where he thrives? Are you out of your mind?

Make an argument instead of accusing people of blindly defending.

Please explain to me, how is he good on defense? He sucks while rotating, hasn't been providing any rim protection, can't rebound the ball. Does he need passes on defense as well? Also, #7 on Lithuania has looked much better than Jonas today.

I think you have issues reading. If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that JV's weak spot is defense. That's not just this game. He actually altered a bunch of shots from guards getting blown by. I saw him miss I think one or two rebounds that should have been his, but that's far from a huge problem. But the point is nothing he's been doing made any difference the whole game until this quarter when Lithuania made a run without him on the floor. A player is having a horrible game when they are actually causing their team to lose because of their ineffectiveness. The problem isn't a player who only got 10 minutes, with those minutes being broken up into 2 minute spurts.

So yes, as far as stats goes he's having a horrible game. But was he a horrible player? Far from it, he never even got a chance to play poorly because either he was on the bench or being used as a pylon on the floor. Not his fault at all.

blocked · Post #2228 » by **blocked** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:37 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
blocked wrote:Yeah, sounds like smart coaching to me. As compared to Casey, who let's players ruin the game.
See - Motiejunas is so much better in this game than Val - and he gets his minutes.

He has no problem when Kleiza is ruining the game though. Every coach has his favorites. Yeah, ok, I understand this, and I am not blaming the coach. Just saying, in situation where you play in 2 minute stretches, in can be hard to find your game. Some players gets subbed out while their tires are still cold you know.

I don't think they had the time to give to people to find their game. Val was ineffective, so they are using other players.
Kleiza is a liability, but he is not a center, and they are stocked with many good players who can play center, so I understand the difference (why he plays, and Jonas does not).
If you noticed, it took 10 or more minutes for Kazlauskas to correct the game, so that LT dictates the tempo. He could not risk even further to play a center that is a liability. It is just a bad day for Val, nothing to worry about, though. It shows what a good coaching looks like.

Regulio · Post #2229 » by **Regulio** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:39 pm

blocked just wrote the most important thing - why try to use JV and let him find his game when others are doing better ? it's not that we have only 1 center or something. C position is the most stacked on our team. it's not preparation games anymore you know.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #2230 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:41 pm

IMO, a lot of these Lithuanian players have more heart than brains. Their coach is reactionary. He's not brilliant, nor is he foolish. He doesn't have the team running crisply, but they have enough talent to survive.

AK47MVP · Post #2231 » by **AK47MVP** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:42 pm

As much as I am shaking head at some of Kazlauskas decisions I never blame the coach after team wins. So if LT holds on to win props to Kazlauskas for winning it ( with JV or without).

Clementine9 · Post #2232 » by **Clementine9** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:43 pm

Regulio wrote:blocked just wrote the most important thing - why try to use JV and let him find his game when others are doing better ? it's not that we have only 1 center or something. C position is the most stacked on our team. it's not preparation games anymore you know.

That's true. For example, I wouldn't have changed that lineup in the end even if JV had been an impact player all game. I think the issue is more that Val is actually a good and effective player and should be given the minutes to work out issues in the beginning of the game. He should also be getting touches on offense. A lot of touches even. If he's so bad that they really can't afford to have him on the floor then so be it. But to not allow him to make any mistakes, and sub him out just for the score to stay the same is pointless. It's under-utilizing him quite simply.

cold_cowboy · Post #2233 » by **cold_cowboy** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:44 pm

kleiza you scrub.

Regulio · Post #2234 » by **Regulio** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:44 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:IMO, a lot of these Lithuanian players have more heart than brains. Their coach is reactionary. He's not brilliant, nor is he foolish. He doesn't have the team running crisply, but they have enough talent to survive.

We don't have skilled iso players at all. So it's just set offense and PnR to death.
In group games we were just awful, but in 2nd round everything became quite good. Personally I'm satisfied with coaching. I think we have a chance at winning it all, though I was ultra skeptic after group games.

UcanUwill · Post #2235 » by **UcanUwill** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:45 pm

blocked wrote:I don't think they had the time to give to people to find their game. Val was ineffective, so they are using other players.

Again, I understand, and I dont say it is bad tactic, but from individual player's perspective, it is just harder to find your game. So it can be justifiable. Form teams perspective, single player is not as important, since there so many options.
Let say if JV played on Italy team, and he had a stable bigger role, even if he came into this tournament with exactly same form, I believe he would have been far better.

BackseatBoss · Post #2236 » by **BackseatBoss** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:47 pm

Clementine9 wrote:
BackseatBoss wrote:
Clementine9 wrote:
Statwise of course he is. How do you expect a guy to have a good game when he is yanked off the floor every 2 minutes and doesn't get any touches on offense, where he thrives? Are you out of your mind?

Make an argument instead of accusing people of blindly defending.

Please explain to me, how is he good on defense? He sucks while rotating, hasn't been providing any rim protection, can't rebound the ball. Does he need passes on defense as well? Also, #7 on Lithuania has looked much better than Jonas today.

I think you have issues reading. If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that JV's weak spot is defense. That's not just this game. He actually altered a bunch of shots from guards getting blown by. I saw him miss I think one or two rebounds that should have been his, but that's far from a huge problem. But the point is nothing he's been doing made any difference the whole game until this quarter when Lithuania made a run without him on the floor. A player is having a horrible game when they are actually causing their team to lose because of their ineffectiveness. The problem isn't a player who only got 10 minutes, with those minutes being broken up into 2 minute spurts.

So yes, as far as stats goes he's having a horrible game. But was he a horrible player? Far from it, he never even got a chance to play poorly because either he was on the bench or being used as a pylon on the floor. Not his fault at all.

OK, tell me honestly, do you think Jonas played better than #7 today? Did he deserve more minutes? Did he deserve more touches, especially knowing that he just tries to bulldoze his way to the basket? And about those altered shots, almost all of them went in. Jonas' defense was bad, but he was bad offensively as well, didn't provide any spacing, when he got the ball, he just fumbled it. There is absolutely no reason why he should've played any more minutes than he did today. Stop acting as if he's a saint who can't make any mistakes. Jonas had only a few games that were good in this championship.

Regulio · Post #2237 » by **Regulio** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:49 pm

Clementine9 wrote:That's true. For example, I wouldn't have changed that lineup in the end even if JV had been an impact player all game. I think the issue is more that Val is actually a good and effective player and should be given the minutes to work out issues in the beginning of the game. He should also be getting touches on offense. A lot of touches even. If he's so bad that they really can't afford to have him on the floor then so be it. But to not allow him to make any mistakes, and sub him out just for the score to stay the same is pointless. It's under-utilizing him quite simply.

I don't know.. Sometimes JV just needs a couple of big plays early on to get it going and then he just starts owning. If it doesn't happen quickly, it seems he occasionally loses confidence and struggles all game. Like what happened this game imo. He just wasn't playing up to his ability, didn't have a positive influence. D.Lav and DMo were simply better. Also I think JV plays better when he is in starting 5, yet coach prefers D.Lav to start most of the time.

Laure · Post #2238 » by **Laure** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:53 pm

JV will be the X-Factor tomorrow. If JV shts a brick again, LTU will likely lose. And if LTU went this far, they need to win and let JV bring the winning culture to the T-Dot.

blocked · Post #2239 » by **blocked** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:54 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
blocked wrote:I don't think they had the time to give to people to find their game. Val was ineffective, so they are using other players.

Again, I understand, and I don't say it is bad tactic, but from individual player's perspective, it is just harder to find your game. So it can be justifiable. Form teams perspective, single player is not as important, since there so many options.
Let say if JV played on Italy team, and he had a stable bigger role, even if he came into this tournament with exactly same form, I believe he would have been far better.

From individual player's perspective, we have the following situation: Val's basketball IQ remained unacceptably low after his year playing NBA ball, because Casey does not run complex plays and uses Val as a doorstop. Casey runs RANDOM offense, so there is no way of knowing where to be. There is no time to teach him now. So, his use will be limited. Val knows it. Kazlauskas clearly said - Val and D-Mo are not ready to be the "go to" guys. D-Mo is one year ahead of Val, and it showed today.
That said, Val will be effective and efficient against some teams, and we saw games where he was. Today he was not, because the team had to play sets to survive, and Val is notoriously unaware of the offensive sets. He had his chance to try, but the coach was working hard to assert his control over the team and the game and had to take him out. It is simple: Val's presence was making things worse.
Conclusion? I really hope Raps get a good offensive assistant coach.

JV4MVP · Post #2240 » by **JV4MVP** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:56 pm

Laure wrote:JV will be the X-Factor tomorrow. If JV shts a brick again, LTU will likely lose. And if LTU went this far, they need to win and let JV bring the winning culture to the T-Dot.

Ppl should expect Javtokas to start tomorrow too. I think Tomic is the 3rd best center in EuroBasket.

JV should get minutes just because Tomic is 7-3. D. Lav is tall too but isn't as physical as JV.