JV at EuroBasket 2013 is Done, Lithuania Gets Silver

[cold_cowboy]

Lithuanians better get a good nights sleep, back to back for the gold-silver game tomorrow. i don't know whether it's better for Lithuanian team who just played or Croatian team who's had a day of rest. kalnietis and maciulis both played over 30 minutes today and the Croatians also score primarily with their guards. it'll be tough it the front-court players don't take over.

[Laure]

JV will be the X-Factor tomorrow. If JV shts a brick again, LTU will likely lose. And if LTU went this far, they need to win and let JV bring the winning culture to the T-Dot.

Ppl should expect Javtokas to start tomorrow too. I think Tomic is the 3rd best center in EuroBasket.

JV should get minutes just because Tomic is 7-3. D. Lav is tall too but isn't as physical as JV.

I agree, but Javtokas won't we win you the match. D. Lav will be fatigued, so I expect his bro and JV to fill in. They must play better.
Also, Kleiza is a complete bum now. Those injuries just scrubified him, not to say he was good in the first place.

[JV4MVP]

Lithuanians better get a good nights sleep, back to back for the gold-silver game tomorrow. i don't know whether it's better for Lithuanian team who just played or Croatian team who's had a day of rest. kalnietis and maciulis both played over 30 minutes today and the Croatians also score primarily with their guards. it'll be tough it the front-court players don't take over.

Croatia's game ended about 4 hours ago so it shouldn't be a big advantage. And LTU rotates their players like crazy so its not like anyone should be too tired.

Will be interesting to see what happens. Def expet JV to play more tomorrow against 7-1 Tomic.

And here's Datome's knee... props for him to play through it:

[cold_cowboy]

Lithuanians better get a good nights sleep, back to back for the gold-silver game tomorrow. i don't know whether it's better for Lithuanian team who just played or Croatian team who's had a day of rest. kalnietis and maciulis both played over 30 minutes today and the Croatians also score primarily with their guards. it'll be tough it the front-court players don't take over.

Croatia's game ended about 4 hours ago so it shouldn't be a big advantage. And LTU rotates their players like crazy so its not like anyone should be too tired.

Will be interesting to see what happens. Def expet JV to play more tomorrow against 7-1 Tomic.

i thought croatia played yesterday, i need sleep, working nights screws my schedule up a bit.. anyway, i see three basic keys to winning this game:

1. take care of the ball
2. stop bogdanovic and tomic
3. high percentage easy baskets by front court players

croatia also rebounds the ball the best in the tournament. i'm not too sure about this one, i'm lithuanian, but still i'd give it 40/60 in favor of croatia. nothing made me happy the way they played today. i'm contemplating hiring a kill squad to infiltrate kleiza's bedroom and shave that fruity hair off.

[dagger]

I don't think they had the time to give to people to find their game. Val was ineffective, so they are using other players.

Again, I understand, and I don't say it is bad tactic, but from individual player's perspective, it is just harder to find your game. So it can be justifiable. Form teams perspective, single player is not as important, since there so many options.
Let say if JV played on Italy team, and he had a stable bigger role, even if he came into this tournament with exactly same form, I believe he would have been far better.

From individual player's perspective, we have the following situation: Val's basketball IQ remained unacceptably low after his year playing NBA ball, because Casey does not run complex plays and uses Val as a doorstop. Casey runs RANDOM offense, so there is no way of knowing where to be. There is no time to teach him now. So, his use will be limited. Val knows it. Kazlauskas clearly said - Val and D-Mo are not ready to be the "go to" guys. D-Mo is one year ahead of Val, and it showed today.
That said, Val will be effective and efficient against some teams, and we saw games where he was. Today he was not, because the team had to play sets to survive, and Val is notoriously unaware of the offensive sets. He had his chance to try, but the coach was working hard to assert his control over the team and the game and had to take him out. It is simple: Val's presence was making things worse.
Conclusion? I really hope Raps get a good offensive assistant coach.

The Raptors offence is not so random with Jonas on the court. He is used as a strong post presence, and his Toronto teammates got used to him in that role. If anything, we're hoping Nick Nurse can install a little more variety, but unlike the Lithuanian NT, the Toronto offence will be built in larger measure around Jonas. The NBA and FIBA styles of play, the former more reliant on a post game and pick and roll, the latter on more complex perimeter sets. Though unlikely, I'd love to see Jonas get pissed enough to give the Lithuanian NT a pass for a few years. Alternatively, hardly playing at all is good, too.

[JV4MVP]

i thought croatia played yesterday, i need sleep, working nights screws my schedule up a bit.. anyway, i see three basic keys to winning this game:

1. take care of the ball
2. stop bogdanovic and tomic
3. high percentage easy baskets by front court players

Croatia is on a 8-0 winning streak Their only loss was in the first game of the tournament, and understandably against Spain.

Def need to contain Bogdanovic and Tomic. Simon is also a deadly 3-pt shooter.

Some people on this board may also remember the great Roko Ukic

[VinBaker6]

i thought croatia played yesterday, i need sleep, working nights screws my schedule up a bit.. anyway, i see three basic keys to winning this game:

1. take care of the ball
2. stop bogdanovic and tomic
3. high percentage easy baskets by front court players

Croatia is on a 8-0 winning streak Their only loss was in the first game of the tournament, and understandably against Spain.

Def need to contain Bogdanovic and Tomic. Simon is also a deadly 3-pt shooter.

Some people on this board may also remember the great Roko Ukic

I remember Roko was mad clutch vs Parker that game. Hit a 3 to bring it within 1 and hit a floater for the win lol. I loved Roko

[Vorticity]

If you recall how team US used their bigs in FIBA/Olympics vs. NBA, you'll notice due to the different style of play (which Dagger rightfully so pointed out), some very good NBA bigs are inefficient in these types of games, it's the same with Jonas, so neither him nor the LTU coach are to blame.

Basically his performance in this tournament on the LTU team is really not relevant to how he's being used in the Raptors system, 2 very different systems.

[Clutch Carter]

I remember when I modeled Roko's face to include him on my roster in some old NBA Live.

[UcanUwill]

it's Basketball, style of play is not so drastically different some guys just cant be effective in it. In Jonas case, his game form looks bad, he spent summer working on strength training, he cant take a jumper, his touch is inconsistent, and on top of that, he is not moving very well without the ball. If he had his spring form and confidence, he could easily work on this team.

If I am correct, Lithuania will take back number 4 spot on FIBA rankings. It was a while. Greece will lose at least 40 points after this tournament, while Lithuania will gain at least 1.

[blocked]

The Raptors offence is not so random with Jonas on the court. He is used as a strong post presence, and his Toronto teammates got used to him in that role. If anything, we're hoping Nick Nurse can install a little more variety, but unlike the Lithuanian NT, the Toronto offence will be built in larger measure around Jonas. The NBA and FIBA styles of play, the former more reliant on a post game and pick and roll, the latter on more complex perimeter sets. Though unlikely, I'd love to see Jonas get pissed enough to give the Lithuanian NT a pass for a few years. Alternatively, hardly playing at all is good, too.

Dear Dagger, "strong post presence" is called "doorstop". "His Toronto teammates got used to him in that role" is called that's all he does for Raptors. "will be built" = "let's hope Raptors get a good offensive assistant coach". The biggest difference between NBA and FIBA styles is not how sets are executed, but the percentage of coaches that rely on athleticism alone. Like Casey.
So, we agree on most things. What we don't agree about is the significance of playing intelligent game on Val's development. I think it is great for him. You think it is detrimental. And there is no way you can convince me that you are right.

[JV4MVP]

Croatia Back In Semis After 18 Years

An honor for this stud:

[UcanUwill]

Stop talking about Kazlauskas fault with JV play - he just sucks in this Eurobasket. I don't care what do you say. Everybody is just owning him, Italy, the smallest team of the EB destroys him. Lav's are much better. Just shut up, please. Sorry for the bad words, but I'm enought of this BS about JV being god. He's looking terrible now, just sit him on the bench. He had like one good game. LTU's NT isn't some farming system for you. They need to win, and they are playing the best players atm. That's all.

He feels alienated, thats the story. If everyone actually sucked the way Jonas ''sucks'' in this, there wouldn't be players who suck.
Maybe there is a little of coach's fault when one of your most productive and talented players is so alienated? Jonas obviously does not fit teams philosophy most of the time, and there is nothing he could do. He looks out of place. Maybe thats the very reason why coaches even exist, to avoid things like that?

For a guy who gets absolutely ignored and has the second fewest shot rate on a team, Jonas has been doing alright. 4th. best scoring rate, best foul drawing rate, best PPS, best FG%, best rebounding and shot blocking rate on a team.

No one can find a middle ground. One side says JV sucks other side says Kazlauskas sucks. Well, Kazlaukas' team is in semi finals hile Jonas is still being productive. Maybe neither of them actually suck? Shortcomings will always be.

[UcanUwill]

Croatia Back In Semis After 18 Years

An honor for this stud:

I would be fine with history repeating itself. Karnisovas used to be Toni Kukoc's biggest nightmare back in the day, good times.

http://www.fibaeurope.com/cid_KNce8jInH7Qj1EsyH5rjn2.gameID_1284-4-A-1.compID_qMRZdYCZI6EoANOrUf9le2.season_1995.roundID_2265.teamID_2135.html

[blocked]

Stop talking about Kazlauskas fault with JV play - he just sucks in this Eurobasket. I don't care what do you say. Everybody is just owning him, Italy, the smallest team of the EB destroys him. Lav's are much better. Just shut up, please. Sorry for the bad words, but I'm enought of this BS about JV being god. He's looking terrible now, just sit him on the bench. He had like one good game. LTU's NT isn't some farming system for you. They need to win, and they are playing the best players atm. That's all.

He feels alienated, thats the story. If everyone actually sucked the way Jonas ''sucks'' in this, there wouldn't be players who suck.
Maybe it is coaches fault when one of your most productive and talented players is so alienated? Jonas obviously does not fit teams philosophy most of the time, and there is nothing he could do. He looks out of place. Maybe thats the very reason why coaches even exist, to avoid things like that?

For a guy who gets absolutely ignored and has the second fewest shot rate on a team, Jonas has been doing alright. 4th. best scoring rate, best foul drawing rate, best PPS, best FG%, best rebounding and shot blocking rate on a team.

Val never attempts many shots, that's just him. The coaches were complaining about his unwillingness to shoot from mid range. Worse, now he tries to score every time he gets the ball. Because that's how the Raptors used him.
Yes, Casey pulling him out for every failure killed his confidence. Yes, Raptors style of play (or lack of style) dictated to him that he is a doorstop, while other have to take jumpshots from random locations. Yes, emphasis on physical game removed his advantages against adult centers at this age. Yes, eurbasket is not a place to babysit your players. Yes, Val was outsmarted badly during this last game.
If he does not see it and feels alienated (ignored, so to say), well, too bad - the hype was too big, he needs to grow up now. Or live up to the expectations.
Kazlauskas clearly stated - bigs were shut down by Italians, could not score, so the team had to reinvent their playing style. If you haven't seen this happening in the game - then maybe you were watching something else... It was very clear that Kazlauskas had to change the way the team plays, and was only able put the team on the run when he started constantly changing defense systems. It was a very smart move, and if Casey could pull something like that with Raptors game, the fans here would be ecstatic. An example of a great coach. Val was unable to figure it all out and made mistakes - and got yanked out because he was ruining it. If he wasn't 21, I would say that's scary, knowing that basketball is all the dude does in his life.

[DG88]

Lithuania isn't trying to develop JV they want a spot for the WC. That much is clear throughout Eurobasket. If you're not producing you ride the pine. A harsh reality for many here but that's how it is. JV is still a 21 year old C, he's not a star yet. Though comparing his first Eurobasket in 2011 to this year is like night and day, which is disappointing. It's times like this that should motivate JV to be work that much harder.

[JV4MVP]

I would be fine with history repeating itself. Karnisovas used to be Toni Kukoc's biggest nightmare back in the day, good times.

http://www.fibaeurope.com/cid_KNce8jInH7Qj1EsyH5rjn2.gameID_1284-4-A-1.compID_qMRZdYCZI6EoANOrUf9le2.season_1995.roundID_2265.teamID_2135.html

I actually meet Karnisovas and his wife before. Seems like a good guy.

But yea, any team will have problems against Sabonis and Marciulonis

[cammac]

The Raptors offence is not so random with Jonas on the court. He is used as a strong post presence, and his Toronto teammates got used to him in that role. If anything, we're hoping Nick Nurse can install a little more variety, but unlike the Lithuanian NT, the Toronto offence will be built in larger measure around Jonas. The NBA and FIBA styles of play, the former more reliant on a post game and pick and roll, the latter on more complex perimeter sets. Though unlikely, I'd love to see Jonas get pissed enough to give the Lithuanian NT a pass for a few years. Alternatively, hardly playing at all is good, too.

Dear Dagger, "strong post presence" is called "doorstop". "His Toronto teammates got used to him in that role" is called that's all he does for Raptors. "will be built" = "let's hope Raptors get a good offensive assistant coach". The biggest difference between NBA and FIBA styles is not how sets are executed, but the percentage of coaches that rely on athleticism alone. Like Casey.
So, we agree on most things. What we don't agree about is the significance of playing intelligent game on Val's development. I think it is great for him. You think it is detrimental. And there is no way you can convince me that you are right.

Must agree with Dagger.
The Lithuanian coach whines when Jonas plays summer league where the Raptors made a excuse that he could leave earlier. If they are strong at C then Jonas need not play for the national team.

He can develop his NBA game where he is paid.

[T-D0G]

I'm just glad this crappy tournament is nearly over.

[Regulio]

Must agree with Dagger.
The Lithuanian coach whines when Jonas plays summer league where the Raptors made a excuse that he could leave earlier. If they are strong at C then Jonas need not play for the national team.

He can develop his NBA game where he is paid.

And his whining had a point it seems. JV looks out of place in half of the games, basically he just isn't playing up to his standards, which is a shame to see. Like DG88 wrote, he was so much better in Eurobasket 2011.
I think his self-confidence is kinda low at the moment.
Now some of you whine about him not getting the ball, well, nothing good happened when he got the ball. He is scoring mostly after offensive rebounds or PnR. In iso situations he is just awful this tournament.

This is a good learning experience for him, especially I hope it will strengthen him psychologically.

He sure will develop his NBA game while playing in NBA, not when he is with NT.