JPK Venting Thread

[Randle McMurphy]

When you include Blanco's time in Arizona, the three catchers we've had receiving any appreciable time have OBPs of .228 (Blanco), .230 (JP) and .233 (Thole). Who reigns supreme at year's end?

Yeah, as horrible as he's been, Arencibia has still managed to be significantly better offensively (57 wRC+) than both of his primary backups, Blanco (30 wRC+) and Thole (23 wRC+). This Jays team really gave new meaning to the term no-hit catcher.

[Schad]

Y'know, I keep wondering at one point the extremely thin crop of catching talent will lead some visionary to actually allow a left-hander to catch. This year hasn't been particularly bad, but in any given season at least one-third of teams are getting seriously deficient offensive performance from their catchers, and surely there are a bunch of strong-armed kids out there who can hit a bit, but not enough to be likely future starting 1B/OF material. Pitchers will get used to seeing the arm coming out of the wrong side of the glove, dammit.


This has been a public service announcement from the Militant Leftist Lefties for Infield Equality

[Santoki]

For 3rd base I can see the argument of not using a lefty, but what's been the traditional reason for not using them behind the plate? When I think of throwing motion, there isn't an issue except for 3rd base, but righties have the same issue with 1st. Sure, you throw a lot more to 3rd but even the best catchers don't throw out a whole lot of runners.

[FlutieX]

The biggest criticism of AA isn't any of the trades he made. It's that he went into the season with JPK as the #1 catcher. No serious franchise trying to contend would have JPK in this duty.

[Schad]

For 3rd base I can see the argument of not using a lefty, but what's been the traditional reason for not using them behind the plate? When I think of throwing motion, there isn't an issue except for 3rd base, but righties have the same issue with 1st. Sure, you throw a lot more to 3rd but even the best catchers don't throw out a whole lot of runners.

It's the throw to third (which isn't actually that difficult) and it's the idea that pitchers would be so spooked by the sight of the glove on the catcher's right hand that they'd quit then and there and join the seminary.

There's also the fact that left-handed pitching is always at a premium...but it's not at more of a premium than catching.

[s e n s i]

For 3rd base I can see the argument of not using a lefty, but what's been the traditional reason for not using them behind the plate?

probably the reception of the ball and the practice of applying a tag on a runner barrelling for home. there's practically no way a lefty catcher can position himself in such a way that would not result in a violent collision and potentially injury. and reaching across the plate to apply the tag, especially if the ball is inbound from the right side of the field, would not be too effective I'd imagine.

[MikeM]

Why did we get rid of Yan Gomes again?

[Ado05]

Why did we get rid of Yan Gomes again?

Well, to be fair, I dont think anyone expected him to do what he has done this year.

[Avenger]

Huh? I didn't know there was anything nonsensical about pointing out your opinion on Thole's concussion-affected 2012. You made that known plenty and quite recently too:

They are based on more reasonable grounds than excusing Arencibia's troubles year after year on minor(if you can even call it that) injuries for which he spent like 3 weeks on the DL. Besides, i'm not sure you think a 100 at bats prove anything. Thole's K and BB rates are in line with his career averages, maybe he's really done and maybe i was wrong about him but i only ever argued for playing him more than the currently **** alternative. You on the other hand have been defending Arencibia for years, not in comparison with anyone else, just on his own merits as a player.

[TorontoRaptures]

In 1281 career at bats, JPK has 74 walks, 396 strikeouts, a .212 BA and a .259 OBP
Ladies and gentlemen, our starting catcher for 3 straight seasons.

[BigLeagueChew]

There's also the fact that left-handed pitching is always at a premium...but it's not at more of a premium than catching.

Yup, have a strong arm you're a pitcher, show some hitting abilty and you're a first baseman or an outfielder. Then there is always the jokes about lefties being odd ball type players and lacking the intelligence to be at important an important position such as catcher.

[torontoaces04]

So basically you choose to ignore the stats (an actual objective measuring stick) because they don't fit your false narrative. That's fine, but just know that you're wrong here on those specific claims.

I'm saying that, on some occasions, advanced stats don't tell the whole story. JPA is not a good, or above-average defender. He is bad a framing pitches, throwing out runners, and blocking pitches. Also, based on the performance of the Jays pitchers this season, you can probably attach a bit of the blame to JP's game-calling abilities.

I have heard that JPA is playing through bursitis, and didn't want to take a cortisone shot. I guess that is commendable, but the damage is done. The damage is done with the fans, the damage is done with members of the media...we've got a full-blown Larry Murphy like situation. JPA needs to go, for his good, but most-so the teams.

I wonder if Cleveland would trade us a guy by the name of Yan Gomes. If you haven't had a good cry in a while, go look at Yan Gomes' numbers. We let him get away, to keep JPK.

[Santoki]

I'm saying that, on some occasions, advanced stats don't tell the whole story. JPA is not a good, or above-average defender. He is bad a framing pitches, throwing out runners, and blocking pitches. Also, based on the performance of the Jays pitchers this season, you can probably attach a bit of the blame to JP's game-calling abilities.

I have heard that JPA is playing through bursitis, and didn't want to take a cortisone shot. I guess that is commendable, but the damage is done. The damage is done with the fans, the damage is done with members of the media...we've got a full-blown Larry Murphy like situation. JPA needs to go, for his good, but most-so the teams.

I wonder if Cleveland would trade us a guy by the name of Yan Gomes. If you haven't had a good cry in a while, go look at Yan Gomes' numbers. We let him get away, to keep JPK.

The difference is that Larry Murphy was actually a really good player. No idea what happened to him here, but then he went off and was good again. Strange, strange tale that one.

[Randle McMurphy]

They are based on more reasonable grounds than excusing Arencibia's troubles year after year on minor(if you can even call it that) injuries for which he spent like 3 weeks on the DL.

It's actually the same argument (that players' performance levels can be negatively impacted by injuries). And yes, it's quite reasonable to think the lingering effects of a broken finger and hand could impact a player's offensive performance level (it being a sport where the use of the hands is so important to hitting).

Besides, i'm not sure you think a 100 at bats prove anything. Thole's K and BB rates are in line with his career averages, maybe he's really done and maybe i was wrong about him but i only ever argued for playing him more than the currently **** alternative.

Thole is awful both offensively and defensively. It didn't take watching him for half a season in 2013 to see that.

You on the other hand have been defending Arencibia for years, not in comparison with anyone else, just on his own merits as a player.

Another fallacy. Yes, like AA and the Jays, I was willing to give Arencibia a chance to see if there was anything more in the bat/glove than there initially appeared. Having a young, cheap catcher of decent value would have been a great boon for the organization in a league where there simply aren't that many good Cs available.

But I was never the strong proponent of Arencibia that you claim I was and would have loved to see him replaced with a superior option at any time (particularly this season). Any defense I have made of his was all about who he was being compared with (other catchers on his own team) and his standing compared to other catchers throughout major league baseball.

[Randle McMurphy]

I'm saying that, on some occasions, advanced stats don't tell the whole story. JPA is not a good, or above-average defender. He is bad a framing pitches, throwing out runners, and blocking pitches. Also, based on the performance of the Jays pitchers this season, you can probably attach a bit of the blame to JP's game-calling abilities.

If you want to talk eye tests, he comes off as pretty average in most of these areas compared to others at this level in all the MLB action I watch. The stats suggest he's slightly above average (and unlike you, I'm not going to just ignore that without a reason). In any case, it's not his defense this season that has made starting him going forward untenable. It's the fact that he's not hitting at all.

I wonder if Cleveland would trade us a guy by the name of Yan Gomes. If you haven't had a good cry in a while, go look at Yan Gomes' numbers. We let him get away, to keep JPK.

Nobody could have reasonably thought that Gomes would be this good, so I can't understand getting too upset about it.

[Avenger]

100 at bats is half a season now? Its not even 1/5ths of a season

[Randle McMurphy]

100 at bats is half a season now? Its not even 1/5ths of a season

Thole has been with the team since the beginning of June, hence the reference to half a season. The fact that he's had 118 PA over that time is no surprise considering he's a backup catcher (and a particularly bad one at that).