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JV at EuroBasket 2013 is Done, Lithuania Gets Silver

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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2501 » by Clementine9 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:41 pm

cold_cowboy wrote:
pbj wrote:What's the general consensus.. disappointing performance by JV or bad coaching decision to not let him play more?

the general consensus among raptors fans concerns everybody being the cause of jv's misfortunes.

consensus among lithuanians is that we got a silver and this was way more successful eurobasket than it was with kemzura.


No you're quite blinded by some cultural need to defend the NT coach. I think quite apart from JV this was a very poorly coached game, and it definitely wasn't the first.
Lateral Quicks wrote:Gradually JV's minutes will approach zero at the same time his points and rebounds approach infinity - a statistical singularity, if you will. Shrewd move from Nurse.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2502 » by Laure » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:41 pm

JV was definitely underplayed. LTU lost the boards 25-42, and Valanciunas is the best rebounder who only played garbage minutes.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2503 » by SkywalkerAC » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 pm

Clementine9 wrote:
cold_cowboy wrote:
lol at you thinking one tournament will discourage jonas from participating for his national team. that is never going to happen. winning silver in his first eurobasket is pretty amazing for somebody his age and kazlauskas had a major role in that, so he's not going anywhere.

get used to jonas participating on the LTU team because there won't be a change regardless of how much of an asset he is for this team.


While I agree with the fact that Jonas will probably keep participating with the national team, I don't understand the unwavering defense of the last two Lithuanian national coaches. Sure they got silver, but the coach prevented this game from even being competitive, even if France was better.

I give credit for Lithuania's success to its talented players, not to its coach's non-existent offensive system.

EDIT: ^and his arguably poor rotational choices.


This Lithuanian style isn't pretty but you can't argue with the results.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2504 » by SkywalkerAC » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:43 pm

It's pretty funny how much cheering for young players makes you hate veterans.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2505 » by cold_cowboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:43 pm

Clementine9 wrote:
cold_cowboy wrote:
lol at you thinking one tournament will discourage jonas from participating for his national team. that is never going to happen. winning silver in his first eurobasket is pretty amazing for somebody his age and kazlauskas had a major role in that, so he's not going anywhere.

get used to jonas participating on the LTU team because there won't be a change regardless of how much of an asset he is for this team.


While I agree with the fact that Jonas will probably keep participating with the national team, I don't understand the unwavering defense of the last two Lithuanian national coaches. Sure they got silver, but the coach prevented this game from even being competitive, even if France was better.

I give credit for Lithuania's success to its talented players, not to its coach's non-existent offensive system.

EDIT: ^and his arguably poor rotational choices.

kazlauskas' methods worked up until this game. we lost two before this one and after each loss, he adjusted. today, i only have to take a look at one figure to determine who lost the game and that's the rebound category. 25 rebounds to 42 rebounds. the lithuanian squad didn't fight enough, didn't work as hard as the french, and that's that.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2506 » by SkywalkerAC » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:44 pm

The good news is that Jonas didn't look at all worn down and fatigued when he finally got some run at the end there.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2507 » by cold_cowboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:45 pm

Mr Burns wrote:
cold_cowboy wrote:
Mr Burns wrote:I guess there are coaches out there that are worse than Casey.

oh i hate the coach who doesn't play valaciunas! i mean, he did coach the team up to a silver medal, but val didn't get his playing time so he's gotta suck.


Not even going to lie I'm just bitter that I spent all this time watching the game to see Jonas play and he was left out. I know nothing about their coach, just pissed that JV didn't play :lol:

and i respect that. there's nothing tying you to the lithuanian team other than your interest in jonas.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2508 » by Clementine9 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:45 pm

SkywalkerAC wrote:
This Lithuanian style isn't pretty but you can't argue with the results.


Of course you can! Silver medal is nice, but again I credit that to a talented group of players. The coach held them back from being competitive this game. I think France was the better team but I don't think a blowout was the inevitable way the game was going to go.
Lateral Quicks wrote:Gradually JV's minutes will approach zero at the same time his points and rebounds approach infinity - a statistical singularity, if you will. Shrewd move from Nurse.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2509 » by cold_cowboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:47 pm

Clementine9 wrote:
cold_cowboy wrote:
pbj wrote:What's the general consensus.. disappointing performance by JV or bad coaching decision to not let him play more?

the general consensus among raptors fans concerns everybody being the cause of jv's misfortunes.

consensus among lithuanians is that we got a silver and this was way more successful eurobasket than it was with kemzura.


No you're quite blinded by some cultural need to defend the NT coach. I think quite apart from JV this was a very poorly coached game, and it definitely wasn't the first.

blinded by cultural need to not blame the coach or coaches, but blame the 10 guys who stepped out onto the floor? no, i think it's pretty clear to me.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2510 » by UcanUwill » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:48 pm

RPzB wrote:
Mr Burns wrote:I guess there are coaches out there that are worse than Casey.

Casey wouldn't get out of Eurobasket group stage even when having Spain as his team.


LOL, I doubt Casey is that bad, but yes, saying the silver medal winning coach is worse than Casey is a joke. I hated the way he used JV as well, but he had other players and other plans, and that worked adequately well. Silver medal is good accomplishment for Lithuanians.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2511 » by Clementine9 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:48 pm

cold_cowboy wrote:kazlauskas' methods worked up until this game. we lost two before this one and after each loss, he adjusted. today, i only have to take a look at one figure to determine who lost the game and that's the rebound category. 25 rebounds to 42 rebounds. the lithuanian squad didn't fight enough, didn't work as hard as the french, and that's that.


That's pretty interesting. You give credit to the coach when players are shooting well in his non-diversified, predictable offense... but blame the players when they lose because of poor rebounding while the coach has one of the team's best, if not the best, rebounding player on the bench.
Lateral Quicks wrote:Gradually JV's minutes will approach zero at the same time his points and rebounds approach infinity - a statistical singularity, if you will. Shrewd move from Nurse.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2512 » by Clementine9 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:49 pm

cold_cowboy wrote:
Clementine9 wrote:
cold_cowboy wrote:the general consensus among raptors fans concerns everybody being the cause of jv's misfortunes.

consensus among lithuanians is that we got a silver and this was way more successful eurobasket than it was with kemzura.


No you're quite blinded by some cultural need to defend the NT coach. I think quite apart from JV this was a very poorly coached game, and it definitely wasn't the first.

blinded by cultural need to not blame the coach or coaches, but blame the 10 guys who stepped out onto the floor? no, i think it's pretty clear to me.


Players have no say in adjustments that need to be made with the people you have out on the floor.
Lateral Quicks wrote:Gradually JV's minutes will approach zero at the same time his points and rebounds approach infinity - a statistical singularity, if you will. Shrewd move from Nurse.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2513 » by cold_cowboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:55 pm

Clementine9 wrote:
cold_cowboy wrote:kazlauskas' methods worked up until this game. we lost two before this one and after each loss, he adjusted. today, i only have to take a look at one figure to determine who lost the game and that's the rebound category. 25 rebounds to 42 rebounds. the lithuanian squad didn't fight enough, didn't work as hard as the french, and that's that.


That's pretty interesting. You give credit to the coach when players are shooting well in his non-diversified, predictable offense... but blame the players when they lose because of poor rebounding while the coach has one of the team's best, if not the best, rebounding player on the bench.

lol so who's blinded now? your enflated vision of valanciunas doesn't mirror the vision of the lithuanian national team as a whole. this isn't montenegro, nor latvia, nor belgium where val gets free reign, this is the gold medal game and based on the last 2-3 games, i've seen nothing out of him that would warrant some higher role than the one he played today.

val will be great, val is the future for the national team, but he's still a kid and a kid is exactly how he behaved with his constant frustration towards every call in the last 3 games or so. i can't count how many times he flailed his arms because he didn't agree with the call compared to maybe once or twice accepting and moving on.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2514 » by blocked » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:58 pm

It would be stupid to blame the coach for this one - it was a team failure in effort. Playing Val or D-Mo, or benching them had nothing to do with winning this. The coach did an amazing job turning this team into a competitor, even without a good PG. Some decisions did not work out for LT - including benching Kleiza. But in general they just did not play like they cared to win. Or maybe trusted themselves too much - just like the Spanish team did.
Comparing the Lithuanian coach with Casey would be the same as comparing Casey to an average fan or realgm, though. :)
Casey has never head coached a winning team. This guy took a bunch of scrubs and made them win silver.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2515 » by basketball royalty » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:58 pm

Was this game televised? Couldn't find it. Anyways, if JVal didn't play much I could care less that I missed it.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2516 » by cold_cowboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:02 pm

Clementine9 wrote:Players have no say in adjustments that need to be made with the people you have out on the floor.

i have no problem with pulling out players when they're ineffective, which val was in his last 3, which were decidedly the most important games. he was a net negative in the +/- category. kleiza got pulled out in the early portions of the tournament, i didn't disagree, so did dmo, kuzminskas, or anybody else that wasn't doing their jobs. i'm sorry, but i watched the whole team throughout the entirety of the tournament and i didn't see anything out of line that could entirely be blamed on the coaching.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2517 » by dballislife » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:05 pm

just a young kid going throw growing pains, summer league gave him confidence maybe too much, this will only make him feel like he needs to work that much more
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2518 » by dagger » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:14 pm

Seriously though, how many games did Lithuania win against superior opponents. This tournament was pretty weak, and Lithuania had a great draw. Imagine drawing Belgium of all teams in the second round. Lithuania got to the finals partly on the strength of a great draw. I think that embellished the final outcome.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2519 » by LamarMatic7 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:21 pm

cold_cowboy wrote:congrats to france. lithuanians played like ****, kleiza was the only one who looked like he cared.

don't confuse daring to shoot a lot with caring. You could see that the huge French lead definitely bothered Kalnietis and he played his heart out there.
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Re: JV at EuroBasket 2013 (vs France Finals 3 PM ET Today) 

Post#2520 » by cold_cowboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:21 pm

dagger wrote:Seriously though, how many games did Lithuania win against superior opponents. This tournament was pretty weak, and Lithuania had a great draw. Imagine drawing Belgium of all teams in the second round. Lithuania got to the finals partly on the strength of a great draw. I think that embellished the final outcome.

that happens every year i suppose. in 2011 russia had slovenia, georgia, ukraine, belgium and bulgaria in its group, then in the second round; macedonia, finland, and greece. russians ended up with the bronze.

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