Pacers Finalizing $90M Extension For Paul George

[vincecarter4pres]

Is he overpaid now? Yes, unless he takes another big step this year.

Is he overrated in general? I think yes, but he's still a fantastic young player as is with a ton of upside.

This deal is better for Indy then a 4 year deal. A 4 year deal is essentially a 3 year deal if things start going south with your team, because then you have to trade him during that final year, where if he's still at least performing at his current level with a touch more efficiency simply from shooting the ball better, he gets to dictate his destination and the return more or less.

A 5 year deal then is at least a 4 year deal and gives you more flexibility to make moves, whether to put pieces around him, maybe totally switch everything up, or to trade him in year 4 when you can still get full open market value for him instead of pennies on the dollar because he's an expiring who can walk.

Right now he's something like a young prime Iguodala. A polarizing player with a great all around game who still had a huge ceiling but had a number of glaring weaknesses alongside his positives that made it questionable how much he would grow. But I'll tell you what, young prime Iggy still had pretty high trade value, although on a lesser contract and even recent Iggy is a player teams really love.

What's the worst case? George doesn't get a ton better, Indy is way too far into the repeater tax for a couple seasons and then a team like Brooklyn or LAL strikeout on the big time names like Durant, Love and Westbrook in free agency and so trade pure cap space, a B rate prospect and a couple 1st rounders for him when he has the 2 or 3 most expensive years left on his deal?

Maybe a young team with a lot of the right pieces feels it's time to take that next step and sends one of their 3 big time prospects and a late lotto to super early non-lotto first for him at the deadline around the same above mentioned time frame?

Even if this deal is a semi-albatross in a few years, it's not that big a deal, he'll still have healthy positive value as long as he hasn't regressed or had a career altering injury. He's not a Rudy Gay like bum even if he never improves. He's still a high character freak athlete with outstanding measures for his position, who's overall smart, a hard worker, good team player with some great on-court attributes and skills.

I don't love this deal, but I don't mind it and I get it.

[Sixerscan]

Is George or will George be a top 3 SF? Lebron is going to be primarily at the PF position, so is Melo. Durant will probably move to that position once he expands his post game and whatnot. I think George is already a top 5 SF, and it doesn't looked like he's peaked. I don't see how this is money wasted. Hibbert and George were huge in the playoffs last year-- so they definitely are the players worth investing as your franchise guys.

It sounds like an overpay, but you have a potential superstar playing for you in a small market and he wants to stay. The last thing you want to do is tell him "we'll see what offers you get" and have him sign elsewhere.

It makes a franchise seem cheap and petty when they match an offer and keep the player

lol who gives a ****.

...Uh, Paul George does?

Common business sense. Don't mess up a good relationship between your organization and your star players.

Oh god this example is incredibly lame but...

It's like playing Pokemon and you're in the safari zone, and finally a Chancey appears. You can only throw so many rocks at Chancey until she just bounces and you have to wait an eternity before another one shows up.

The lesson is, only throw so many rocks. One too many, and kiss your Chancey goodbye.

They let the market set Roy Hibbert's price. Did that mess up their relationship with him?

Waiting to give him a contract isn't being cheap. If there was no cap or punitive luxury tax I wouldn't care less. But when the league puts in restrictions on player acquisition when you get to certain salary levels, it makes sense to be a little smarter with the money you give out. The Thunder were unable to replace Kevin Martin this offseason because of how close they were to the tax, which took away the full mid-level option.

I think George could absolutely be worth this deal, but I also think he could be worth this deal 9 months from now. I don't see the rush.

[Nuntius]

Roy Hibbert should be mad. HE was THE guy vs the Heat. The real menace, but George comes with the most hype.

Why should Hibbert be mad? He got already got his payday.

...because he was THE man that put Miami and the other teams in a terrible situation. His contract is 60million on 4 years. How can you give the biggest contract of your team to the man who isn't the main player?

Because our main player depends on the opponent. Against Miami, Hibbert will be the main. Against New York, George will be the main. And so on. Our team is not built around someone being the clear cut #1 option. Our team is built around taking advantage of the opponent's weak points.

[Massamba]

Because our main player depends on the opponent. Against Miami, Hibbert will be the main. Against New York, George will be the main. And so on. Our team is not built around someone being the clear cut #1 option. Our team is built around taking advantage of the opponent's weak points.

90 million is the type of contract for a clear cut #1 option, for a superstar.

[Nuntius]

That 13 mil/yr steal for Josh Smith is looking even better than it already was...

George: 17.4 points, 7.6 rebounds and 4.1 assists on 42% FG = 18 mil/yr

Smith: 17.5 points, 8.4 rebounds, and 4.2 assists on 47% FG = 13 mil/yr

Playoffs:

George: 16.8 points, 6.5 rebounds and 4.4 assists on 43% FG

Smith: 17 points, 7.5 rebounds and 3.5 assists on 43.3% FG

The main difference?

George helped lead his team to the 7th game of the ECF against the eventual champions.

Smith helped lead his team to a first round exit against George's team.

[JLei]

He get James Harden money if he doesn't make all-NBA this year or win MVP this year.

The criteria to get the 30% Max instead of the 25% Max are:

Named to the All-NBA First, Second or Third team at least twice
Voted as a starter in the All-Star game at least twice
Named the NBA Most Valuable Player at least once

If he get's all-NBA again he's probably worth the money. If he doesn't then he gets something like 5/80.

[Nuntius]

Because our main player depends on the opponent. Against Miami, Hibbert will be the main. Against New York, George will be the main. And so on. Our team is not built around someone being the clear cut #1 option. Our team is built around taking advantage of the opponent's weak points.

90 million is the type of contract for a clear cut #1 option, for a superstar.

And George has every chance to become that superstar. Thankfully, he is not as selfish as most of those "stars" are

[chifan1798]

George showed the ability to get to the line well in the pos and othe than his horrible first month, where he was unexpectedly thrust into a new role he averaged 19 a game on above average ts%. He gets to the line 2 or 3 times a game he should be able to put up 20+ on decent efficiency and is elite in every orher area for his position. He'll earn this deal.

The NBA season is 5.5 months. One month isn't going to kill him that much in the stats department. TS% is nice, but lets not ignore the basic stats either. 41.9% isn't all that great, and it took more than 1 month of basketball to have him be that low.

Just take a look at Deng in his 3rd season:
-He too was one year removed from HS upon entering the league
-Averaged 18.8 ppg
-Shot 51+%
-Averaged 7.3 rebounds
-Played stellar defense
-Played incredible against the defending champion Heat in the playoffs. I think he averaged about 26 ppg for that series (granted, he didn't go against Lebron)
-Doesn't jump as high as George
-Doesn't handle the all as well as George

All of that, and George is being called a superstar or potential one (even before his 3rd season started), and he wasn't even better than Deng in his 3rd year. So I'm not buying the hype until I see it. I can't really give too much credit to a guy who scores only 7 points in a game 7. Indiana could have waited another year at least, just to make sure, because they could match any offer that he would have received. I think it's ridiculous to give this guy Rose, Durant, Lebron type money on "potential"

[Doormatt]

hes actually a lot better than both of those players, especially batum. like comparing him to batum is borderline insulting to george.

No he isn't a lot better than any of them, he just a volume shooter and a crappy one at that.

Well you obviously don't know anything about George because he's arguably the best perimeter defender in the league, as well as a pretty decent play maker.

[DetroitSho]

Because our main player depends on the opponent. Against Miami, Hibbert will be the main. Against New York, George will be the main. And so on. Our team is not built around someone being the clear cut #1 option. Our team is built around taking advantage of the opponent's weak points.

90 million is the type of contract for a clear cut #1 option, for a superstar.

You haven't read the thread have you? If he actually makes $90 million it would be because he indeed became that superstar #1 option type player.

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[Scoot McGroot]

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2 ... lications/

Here's some facts on the deal for the Pacers, including how George's deal will be the same 25% max as John Wall if PG does not make all-NBA this year, and how George's deal could actually hit over $100m if he does qualify for the 30% max (the same that Harden was given, but never qualified for).

Lapel, George is getting the same kind of max as Durant, but the max is based off of the salary cap in the first year of their deal. Thus, higher salary cap, higher first year and bigger deal overall.


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[Massamba]

What's next for the pacers? what about West futur?

[winter_mute_13]

They let the market set Roy Hibbert's price. Did that mess up their relationship with him?

FWIW, I think we (the Pacers) will end up paying for that. Roy ended up on a 3+1 contract, which means he can opt out in 2015. Assuming his play doesn't fall off, he's a lock to exercise that option and get an even bigger max deal in 2015.

I don't love this new deal from the POV of the Pacers either, but I understand why they have to do it. Pacers end up paying maybe $3m+ per year more for locking up George for 5 years instead of 3. If George ends up being as good as we think, then yeah it would definitely be worth it.

[Scoot McGroot]

They let the market set Roy Hibbert's price. Did that mess up their relationship with him?

FWIW, I think we (the Pacers) will end up paying for that. Roy ended up on a 3+1 contract, which means he can opt out in 2015. Assuming his play doesn't fall off, he's a lock to exercise that option and get an even bigger max deal in 2015.

I don't love this new deal from the POV of the Pacers either, but I understand why they have to do it. Pacers end up paying maybe $3m+ per year more for locking up George for 5 years instead of 3. If George ends up being as good as we think, then yeah it would definitely be worth it.

hibbert wasn't a guaranteed, max player going into free agency last year. There was a question as to exactly where negotiations would go, and it was believed that it would have to be negotiated out. THAT'S where the difference between George, guaranteed to get a max deal on free agency next year, and Hibbert, not guaranteed to get a max deal after his 4th year, let alone after his 3rd year, lies.


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[dice]

They let the market set Roy Hibbert's price. Did that mess up their relationship with him?

FWIW, I think we (the Pacers) will end up paying for that. Roy ended up on a 3+1 contract, which means he can opt out in 2015. Assuming his play doesn't fall off, he's a lock to exercise that option and get an even bigger max deal in 2015.

wtf? he wasn't very good until the heat series, where he got to abuse chris bosh

[Nuntius]

I also dont understand fans who say '' its the market''. just because players are being overpaid, doesnt mean everybody should.

James Harden got less, Westbrook, Curry, Durant and they are all better players. His offensive game isnt good enough. Whilst he is a max player i dont think he is a 90m max player.

James Harden got less because he failed to meet the requirements for the Derrick Rose rule. If George fails to meet the requirements then he will get the same contract that Harden did.

Westbrook got less because OKC management forced him to sacrifice his salary in order for the team to succeed. That was an admirable move by Westbrook.

Durant got less because he signed his contract in the previous CBA. His contract got upgraded recently and now he is making the same max (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/19/4 ... ay-lockout).

Curry being a better player than George is debateable. There are two sides on a basketball court. Curry is better on the offensive side, George is a LOT better on the defensive side. It depends on where you put your emphasis in. Both are great players.

[Nuntius]

rumours are it isn't 90 mill..more like 80. only 90 if he mets all expections.

That's not a rumor. It is the reality. PG will get $90M if he meets the Derrick Rose rule criteria. In other words, he will get it if he is named MVP or if he makes an All-NBA team.

If he doesn't, he will get $80M (a Harden type contract).

[Nuntius]

hes actually a lot better than both of those players, especially batum. like comparing him to batum is borderline insulting to george.

No he isn't a lot better than any of them, he just a volume shooter and a crappy one at that.

Monta Ellis is just a volume shooter. Paul George is a lot more than that.

[winter_mute_13]

They let the market set Roy Hibbert's price. Did that mess up their relationship with him?

FWIW, I think we (the Pacers) will end up paying for that. Roy ended up on a 3+1 contract, which means he can opt out in 2015. Assuming his play doesn't fall off, he's a lock to exercise that option and get an even bigger max deal in 2015.

wtf? he wasn't very good until the heat series, where he got to abuse chris bosh

Hibbert according to one study was the best interior defender in the NBA last year. #2 in the league in offensive rebound %. #3 in the league in block %. All this while he was in an offensive slump.

Guys like you probably didn't notice Hibbert until he destroyed Chandler in the NY series and dominated the paint against Miami. I would think though that rival GMs were paying more attention.

[dice]

FWIW, I think we (the Pacers) will end up paying for that. Roy ended up on a 3+1 contract, which means he can opt out in 2015. Assuming his play doesn't fall off, he's a lock to exercise that option and get an even bigger max deal in 2015.

wtf? he wasn't very good until the heat series, where he got to abuse chris bosh

Hibbert according to one study was the best interior defender in the NBA last year. #2 in the league in offensive rebound %. #3 in the league in block %. All this while he was in an offensive slump.

offensive slump? he's never been any good offensively

Guys like you probably didn't notice Hibbert until he destroyed Chandler in the NY series and dominated the paint against Miami.

i noticed him being pitiful in the first half of the season and marginally better the 2nd half