Pacers Finalizing $90M Extension For Paul George

[Nuntius]

I'll ask the same question I asked in another forum.

Why does it seem people of other fanbases are mad that he got this money??? IMHO, the only people that should be mad at his contract are pacers fans.

Why should we be mad at his contract? We are overjoyed that we have PG locked up for the next 5 years and that his contract is incentive-based so he will have to produce greatly in order to earn the big bucks

[DaeDae]

I'll ask the same question I asked in another forum.

Why does it seem people of other fanbases are mad that he got this money??? IMHO, the only people that should be mad at his contract are pacers fans.

Why should we be mad at his contract? We are overjoyed that we have PG locked up for the next 5 years and that his contract is incentive-based so he will have to produce greatly in order to earn the big bucks

My point is, other teams shouldn't care at all. If anything, this HELPS them. PG was not leaving the pacers, so them signing him for the maximum amount allowed helps tie up their cap for the foreseeable future. This HELPS every other team in the league.

As far as pacers fans, I'm not suggesting that you MUST be mad, but rather that its a possibility that you WOULD be. Paul George just got paid top 5 level money and isn't a top 5 player.

[dice]

Paul George just got paid top 5 level money

he did?

[Nuntius]

I'll ask the same question I asked in another forum.

Why does it seem people of other fanbases are mad that he got this money??? IMHO, the only people that should be mad at his contract are pacers fans.

Why should we be mad at his contract? We are overjoyed that we have PG locked up for the next 5 years and that his contract is incentive-based so he will have to produce greatly in order to earn the big bucks

My point is, other teams shouldn't care at all. If anything, this HELPS them. PG was not leaving the pacers, so them signing him for the maximum amount allowed helps tie up their cap for the foreseeable future. This HELPS every other team in the league.

As far as pacers fans, I'm not suggesting that you MUST be mad, but rather that its a possibility that you WOULD be. Paul George just got paid top 5 level money and isn't a top 5 player.

I agree that other teams shouldn't care at all. But you know how fans react. Some people will always try to rip an opposing team apart in the first chance that they get.

As far as Pacer fans are concerned. Well, we could get mad if Paul George fails to produce in the next 2-3 years. We will see what happens. Personally, I feel that he has earned this contract and that he will continue to earn it

[Sixerscan]

I'll ask the same question I asked in another forum.

Why does it seem people of other fanbases are mad that he got this money??? IMHO, the only people that should be mad at his contract are pacers fans.

Why should we be mad at his contract? We are overjoyed that we have PG locked up for the next 5 years and that his contract is incentive-based so he will have to produce greatly in order to earn the big bucks

My point is, other teams shouldn't care at all. If anything, this HELPS them. PG was not leaving the pacers, so them signing him for the maximum amount allowed helps tie up their cap for the foreseeable future. This HELPS every other team in the league.

As far as pacers fans, I'm not suggesting that you MUST be mad, but rather that its a possibility that you WOULD be. Paul George just got paid top 5 level money and isn't a top 5 player.

He didn't get paid top 5 money. Even if he gets the full $90 million, the average annual salary of that ($18 million) would only be the 15th highest paid person in the league this year. If he only gets $78 million then his AAV would be about the 20th highest paid.

You can absolutely win a championship paying Paul George 30% of your salary cap. My issue is that you could have given him this contract in July, what's the rush?

[Scoot McGroot]

Why should we be mad at his contract? We are overjoyed that we have PG locked up for the next 5 years and that his contract is incentive-based so he will have to produce greatly in order to earn the big bucks

My point is, other teams shouldn't care at all. If anything, this HELPS them. PG was not leaving the pacers, so them signing him for the maximum amount allowed helps tie up their cap for the foreseeable future. This HELPS every other team in the league.

As far as pacers fans, I'm not suggesting that you MUST be mad, but rather that its a possibility that you WOULD be. Paul George just got paid top 5 level money and isn't a top 5 player.

He didn't get paid top 5 money. Even if he gets the full $90 million, the average annual salary of that ($18 million) would only be the 15th highest paid person in the league this year. If he only gets $78 million then his AAV would be about the 20th highest paid.

You can absolutely win a championship paying Paul George 30% of your salary cap. My issue is that you could have given him this contract in July, what's the rush?

Why let it be a distraction? We're playing for a championship this year. Let him focus on that, not on his contract.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Sixerscan]

My point is, other teams shouldn't care at all. If anything, this HELPS them. PG was not leaving the pacers, so them signing him for the maximum amount allowed helps tie up their cap for the foreseeable future. This HELPS every other team in the league.

As far as pacers fans, I'm not suggesting that you MUST be mad, but rather that its a possibility that you WOULD be. Paul George just got paid top 5 level money and isn't a top 5 player.

He didn't get paid top 5 money. Even if he gets the full $90 million, the average annual salary of that ($18 million) would only be the 15th highest paid person in the league this year. If he only gets $78 million then his AAV would be about the 20th highest paid.

You can absolutely win a championship paying Paul George 30% of your salary cap. My issue is that you could have given him this contract in July, what's the rush?

Why let it be a distraction? We're playing for a championship this year. Let him focus on that, not on his contract.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

I guess, you could just as easily say that not giving him the contract now might cause him to up his game in a contract year. It just goes against the classic notion that you sign these guys early so you can get them on a discount by providing them certainty.

[DaeDae]

Why should we be mad at his contract? We are overjoyed that we have PG locked up for the next 5 years and that his contract is incentive-based so he will have to produce greatly in order to earn the big bucks

My point is, other teams shouldn't care at all. If anything, this HELPS them. PG was not leaving the pacers, so them signing him for the maximum amount allowed helps tie up their cap for the foreseeable future. This HELPS every other team in the league.

As far as pacers fans, I'm not suggesting that you MUST be mad, but rather that its a possibility that you WOULD be. Paul George just got paid top 5 level money and isn't a top 5 player.

He didn't get paid top 5 money. Even if he gets the full $90 million, the average annual salary of that ($18 million) would only be the 15th highest paid person in the league this year. If he only gets $78 million then his AAV would be about the 20th highest paid.

You can absolutely win a championship paying Paul George 30% of your salary cap. My issue is that you could have given him this contract in July, what's the rush?

I meant top 5 in terms of output, not salary.

He's in the same ballpark as Rose/Westbrook/Paul and Howard. He isn't on their level though.

Just because someone saw fit to give Anthony too much money, an doverpaid KG in the twilight of his career it doesn't change the fact that Paul Goerge makes money in the range of players that are clearly better than him.

Not that I mind.

[Nuntius]

He didn't get paid top 5 money. Even if he gets the full $90 million, the average annual salary of that ($18 million) would only be the 15th highest paid person in the league this year. If he only gets $78 million then his AAV would be about the 20th highest paid.

You can absolutely win a championship paying Paul George 30% of your salary cap. My issue is that you could have given him this contract in July, what's the rush?

Why let it be a distraction? We're playing for a championship this year. Let him focus on that, not on his contract.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

I guess, you could just as easily say that not giving him the contract now might cause him to up his game in a contract year. It just goes against the classic notion that you sign these guys early so you can get them on a discount by providing them certainty.

The contract is incentive based. He will have to up his game in order to get the full contract.

[ibraheim718]

Or how about Realgm, where if my favorite young player isn't good on offense let's overrate his defense to justify my man crush.

So where does the propensity to hit big shots... rebound the ball... an ability to show he can actually be a player that handles the PnR (when initially no one expected him to) when his point guard is having trouble with even menial penetration... or that he appears to be a good kid who doesn't seem to get into trouble... or how about that at the ripe age of 22 he was already a big part of the team that was one win away from a finals appearance? Where does that stuff fit in?

Indiana was in no position to play the contract game with him... Usually when they decide to build around a player they stay true to their talent evaluation and are able to project how good a player will be: case in point>>> Roy Hibbert. On this very same forum the same song and dance that is being displayed today about PG's extension was being displayed when the Pacers matched Portland's offer.

Paul George when everything is considered but mostly age had a terrific playoff run. Sure he struggled here and there but I can safely bet he's the kind of guy that is going to learn from them.

Off the top of my head he had the triple-double against Atlanta which was undeniably one of the most impressive single game performances in the 2013 playoffs.. He was a swiss army knife against NY who had HCA and was favored.. and he hit two huge shots in game 1 against Miami.. and he had a few really good games where he was playing opposite the best player in the game.

So you tell me... it's just the defense?

[ibraheim718]

The bigger question that puts the debate to bed is who did everyone want Indiana to spend the money on? From a personal perspective they spent on the best possible player they could have acquired otherwise minus Lebron and he's not going to Indy. PG has IT.. there's no question in my mind about that. And just for the fact that the two parties went about it in not the most trendiest of ways I say great signing. No flash.. no courting.. player wants team---team wants player.

[Trader_Joe]

I can't believe I went through 12 pages of this nonsense.

This contract was a no brainer.

-George is the 3rd or 4th best SF in the game only behind the best and 2nd best overall players in the game and maybe Melo (I prefer George)

-He just turned 23 in May having made an exponential leap between his last two seasons

-He can play SG or SF (the most important position if you go by who wins title.. Jordan, Kobe, Wade, LBJ)

-If he does get the full amount.. that means he's continued his ascent up the ladder, If he doesn't get the full amount, the Pacers get better value

-He is one the best two way players in the game and one of the best perimeter defenders period

-Now there will be no distractions about his FA status. Indy can concentrate on winning a title with a core of George and Hibbert for the next half decade

Meanwhile should they have saved this franchise tag label for someone else?
No.

And what would saving a million or two per season do?
They're not going to have cap space regardless.

Could the guy improve his handle and shooting?

Of course..that's actually the scary part.
He has two components to his game that could improve significantly.

Meanwhile he did shoot 39% from 3 two seasons ago.

Could he turn the ball over less?
Sure, but he was playing SF for the 1st time last year and you know who turned the ball over more?
LBJ
Durant
Kobe
Harden
Westbrook
Howard
Wade
Curry
and plenty of others.

[loserX]

I meant top 5 in terms of output, not salary.

He's in the same ballpark as Rose/Westbrook/Paul and Howard. He isn't on their level though.

Just because someone saw fit to give Anthony too much money, an doverpaid KG in the twilight of his career it doesn't change the fact that Paul Goerge makes money in the range of players that are clearly better than him.

Not that I mind.

Except you can't make this kind of analysis in the presence of an artificial ceiling, like the CBA has. If there were no max salary, most of those star players would be making more. But with an individual max salary, there's going to be a bunch of guys, of varying levels of ability, all stacked up there together.

Expecting the league to self-correct and say "well, LeBron makes $18M, so everyone else should renegotiate their contracts downward to reflect their value relative to him" is not how economics works.

[Sixerscan]

^ good point on the incentives

My point is, other teams shouldn't care at all. If anything, this HELPS them. PG was not leaving the pacers, so them signing him for the maximum amount allowed helps tie up their cap for the foreseeable future. This HELPS every other team in the league.

As far as pacers fans, I'm not suggesting that you MUST be mad, but rather that its a possibility that you WOULD be. Paul George just got paid top 5 level money and isn't a top 5 player.

He didn't get paid top 5 money. Even if he gets the full $90 million, the average annual salary of that ($18 million) would only be the 15th highest paid person in the league this year. If he only gets $78 million then his AAV would be about the 20th highest paid.

You can absolutely win a championship paying Paul George 30% of your salary cap. My issue is that you could have given him this contract in July, what's the rush?

I meant top 5 in terms of output, not salary.

He's in the same ballpark as Rose/Westbrook/Paul and Howard. He isn't on their level though.

Just because someone saw fit to give Anthony too much money, an doverpaid KG in the twilight of his career it doesn't change the fact that Paul Goerge makes money in the range of players that are clearly better than him.

Not that I mind.

You are casting a pretty large "ballpark." Paul just signed a 5 year $107 million contract. If George doesn't make an all NBA team this season, he will make $27 million less than that.

I think the main problem here is that you are assuming that "top 5 players" get "top 5 money." Everyone knows in a no max salary league LeBron Durant Paul Howard Rose etc would all make much more than they currently do. This is especially true for guys on their first max deals like Rose and Durant. Really there is no such thing as top 5 money anymore, except maybe guys like Kobe and Dirk who had their huge contracts grandfathered in.

That George makes as much as Westbrook or Rose does not mean that George is overpaid. It's that those guys are underpaid, due to the realities of the CBA.

[Sixerscan]

I meant top 5 in terms of output, not salary.

He's in the same ballpark as Rose/Westbrook/Paul and Howard. He isn't on their level though.

Just because someone saw fit to give Anthony too much money, an doverpaid KG in the twilight of his career it doesn't change the fact that Paul Goerge makes money in the range of players that are clearly better than him.

Not that I mind.

Except you can't make this kind of analysis in the presence of an artificial ceiling, like the CBA has. If there were no max salary, most of those star players would be making more. But with an individual max salary, there's going to be a bunch of guys, of varying levels of ability, all stacked up there together.

Expecting the league to self-correct and say "well, LeBron makes $18M, so everyone else should renegotiate their contracts downward to reflect their value relative to him" is not how economics works.

^Or just what he said

[vincecarter4pres]

I shouldn't be surprised, but man is there a lot of reaching on both sides of this debate spectrum...

George a current top 10 to 15 player? And as in that should be acknowledged as concrete?

George's ultimate or even likely potential as a tall Larry Hughes?

Also, to touch on the ball handling issue?
Yes, it is true it is much rarer for a player to dramatically improve their ball handling from whatever level they started at when they entered the NBA, especially so if they had an actual suspect handle to begin with.

But, Paul George personally has already dramatically improved his handle since entering the league and also from the time he entered college to the draft. His handle still is a little suspect, but he's gone from a guy who pretty much had to look at his dribble to a guy with some nice change of direction moves, crossovers and spins who can get in the lane and self create for himself and others beating his man or splitting the double, or out on the break.

It's not a given he will dramatically improve his handle to the next level, but it's likely he'll at least improve it to where it's more reliable and more of a weapon out of the triple threat.

His handle is already better then his teammate Granger's and he's been a pretty good player, has he not?

I doubt he's ever on the Lebron, Durant type of level, but I think he can definitely jump from a top 25 player to the very end of the top 10.

[Reservoirdawgs]

Five years/$90 million is quite a lot for a guy who had the #42 RAPM for the 2012-13 regular season and is a very poor offensive player. However, he was #53 in RAPM last season, drastically improved his already stellar defense, and is only 23 on a team that had a chance to go to the Finals last season. It's an overpay based on what you're getting back, but given the NBA economics someone else was going to pay him the money anyways. I don't think he'll be a Top 10 player anytime soon unless he works on his offense.

[bondom34]

I can't believe I went through 12 pages of this nonsense.

Great post, but more impressed that you actually read the entire thread, I've just been poking through!

[carl_english]

Let me think of one other player who can replace PG...wait for it...Nopeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[BIG match]

Its seems like players aren't even close to as talented as they used to be coming into that first contract. Nowadays your team is paying for your potential not your production on your first deal (Demar Derozan). Guys like Javale McGee get what they get yet haven't done ANYTHING in the league...It doesn't take much for these guys to get HUGE money, if you're a Big, put up one good season, hell even half of a season and your getting max...Unless your Andrew Bynum even injuries don't make a difference, look at Brook Lopez. Didn't they do something in the new CBA to try and alter MAX contracts or something? Doesn't seem like its working...As long as the other teams can offer you max, your team will always be forced into it. They should make it so that only your original team can offer you that on your first deal and other teams can only offer you 10% less or something or they give up a draft pick. If a player wants to leave there will at least be more playing field

A lot of times when players (like McGee for example) get paid like that at that point, they don't usually get that much better. It seems like a guy like him worries about highlights/dunks/image more than winning. this doesn't apply to everyone.

The bottom line is Paul George/Demarcus Cousins are worth that money because if their teams don't pay it someone else will