Pacers Finalizing $90M Extension For Paul George

[Doormatt]

Take any posts from Laker fans in this thread with a grain of salt.

uhm, why?

[Nuntius]

Take any posts from Laker fans in this thread with a grain of salt.

uhm, why?

I'm guessing that he's saying this because they could hope that they'd be the ones landing Paul George so this could lead them to be impartial and unfair.

But I don't think that I have seen this attitude until now. It's mostly Bulls fans who seem to disagree with the contract at this point. I read that some of them fear that this is going to drive Deng's prize up but I really don't see how the two are connected.

[DaeDae]

Just wondering, what do you think Paul George's value is contract wise? And since you're happy, do you really believe the difference between what you think he's worth and what he was paid will stop Indiana from reaching their max potential?

Right now? 5 years 70 million, Max.

And yea I do, but not because they paid George. That they paid George now place price to performance pressure on their other contracts. Hibbert is not a max guy and they IMHO overpaid George hill.

So a $1.6 million/year difference from what they paid and what you think he's worth is the difference between them winning and them being screwed? If you think he's worth $70 million and he indeed continues to stay at his current level and don't progress, he'll get $78 million instead of $90 million. I just don't see the big deal. Not sure how you do based on your own admission.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

I have every expectation that Paul George will make the All-NBA 3rd Team this year, either because of injury to one of the three SF's I think are better than him, or because specifically in the case of Carmelo Anthony, people are beginning to take a "been there and done that" approach to how they see his on the court successes and measure it against the backdrop of his team based failuters. This year will be no different. The gap between Lebron, KD, and then someone like Paul George, is vacuous. But that won't stop George, either by fortuitous circumstance, or by accolade from being named to the All NBA 3rd team this year. When that happens, his extention will be closer to 95 Million, and THAT is a MASSIVE difference from the 70 million I'm suggesting.

[DWiz]

I don't think George is a premium player/ superstar. I think he will marginally get better, his raw numbers will stay the same but he'll become more effecient. 90 mil in the new CBA is tough

[Twelve20Nine]

Well Paul George is not even as good as Danny Granger at his best yet . His offensive game needs ton of work and his Defense is good but not great . He has all the physical attributes but I don't think he is smart enough as a basketball player to get elite level money and he doesn't have the charisma to put fannies in seats either . He is still a project but the Pacers had to be proactive because the Lakers would have made a strong run at him. He is not a number 1 nor even a number 2 yet he is a third option. He's success now has a lot to do with teams not game planning for him on offense . He takes bad shots , doesn't attack the rim enough , isn't strong or low enough with his dribble he has a ton of work to do on his game offensively and defensively he is a tad bit overrated out of all the people that had to guard Lebron during the post season he was torched the most . He did do a great job on Melo but Bron was killing him.

[Scoot McGroot]

Well Paul George is not even as good as Danny Granger at his best yet . His offensive game needs ton of work and his Defense is good but not great . He has all the physical attributes but I don't think he is smart enough as a basketball player to get elite level money and he doesn't have the charisma to put fannies in seats either . He is still a project but the Pacers had to be proactive because the Lakers would have made a strong run at him. He is not a number 1 nor even a number 2 yet he is a third option. He's success now has a lot to do with teams not game planning for him on offense . He takes bad shots , doesn't attack the rim enough , isn't strong or low enough with his dribble he has a ton of work to do on his game offensively and defensively he is a tad bit overrated out of all the people that had to guard Lebron during the post season he was torched the most . He did do a great job on Melo but Bron was killing him.

Uh.....as Pacers fans who have watched both throughout their careers, Paul George is already better than Granger ever was in terms of impacting games. George is a lockdown perimeter defender, more-so since he gets to pair up with an interior game changer defensively in Hibbert. However, George is miles ahead of where Granger ever was defensively. Sure, Granger was a better shooter offensively and put up more points (he played in a system under Jim O'Brien that pushed him to shoot as many 3's as possible, and his next best players were Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy). However, Granger never has had as good handles as Paul George has now, and that's even with recognizing that Paul's handles are still a bit shaky (though miles better than they were coming into the league).

George shut down Melo and JR Smith in the playoffs. LeBron had to play the most dominant game of his life just to put up his averages. Paul made him work his butt off on both ends of the court. Put anyone other than Paul George or Kawhi Leonard on LeBron in that series, and LeBron was putting up 40+ per night, easy.

It's that simple. Granger had better stats, but the system allowed that. George has much more impact now already than Granger ever did, and doesn't even have to put up the offensive stats that Granger had to.

[winter_mute_13]

Wow, this thread has exploded. Never realized Paul George and the Pacers have become so popular.

good offense beats good defense

I tend to agree with this. And like you, I think I'd take KD's offense over PG's defense.

I'm sure you realize though, that the Pacers don't actually have the opportunity to get KD, at any price.

Also, I'd question whether star defenders are really getting paid much less than star offensive players. Josh Smith just signed for $14m per (at age 27) and Iggy signed for $12m per (at age 29), and reportedly could have gotten $14m from Sacto, but he turned them down. Paul George earns a premium over both because he's much younger, and rightly or wrongly he's regarded as having more offensive potential.

Btw, I do think with this contract, the Pacers ARE expecting George to turn into an offensive star. He's not there yet, but there are promising signs. Whether he does get there or not is the big question, of course. As a Pacer fan this is the number one thing I'd be worried about, but as I said, the signs are there.

[Joel Embust]

This kid is a gamer, he's a baller, he's a playmaker and a shot caller. All he does is win games.

[Twelve20Nine]

Well Paul George is not even as good as Danny Granger at his best yet . His offensive game needs ton of work and his Defense is good but not great . He has all the physical attributes but I don't think he is smart enough as a basketball player to get elite level money and he doesn't have the charisma to put fannies in seats either . He is still a project but the Pacers had to be proactive because the Lakers would have made a strong run at him. He is not a number 1 nor even a number 2 yet he is a third option. He's success now has a lot to do with teams not game planning for him on offense . He takes bad shots , doesn't attack the rim enough , isn't strong or low enough with his dribble he has a ton of work to do on his game offensively and defensively he is a tad bit overrated out of all the people that had to guard Lebron during the post season he was torched the most . He did do a great job on Melo but Bron was killing him.

Uh.....as Pacers fans who have watched both throughout their careers, Paul George is already better than Granger ever was in terms of impacting games. George is a lockdown perimeter defender, more-so since he gets to pair up with an interior game changer defensively in Hibbert. However, George is miles ahead of where Granger ever was defensively. Sure, Granger was a better shooter offensively and put up more points (he played in a system under Jim O'Brien that pushed him to shoot as many 3's as possible, and his next best players were Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy). However, Granger never has had as good handles as Paul George has now, and that's even with recognizing that Paul's handles are still a bit shaky (though miles better than they were coming into the league).

George shut down Melo and JR Smith in the playoffs. LeBron had to play the most dominant game of his life just to put up his averages. Paul made him work his butt off on both ends of the court. Put anyone other than Paul George or Kawhi Leonard on LeBron in that series, and LeBron was putting up 40+ per night, easy.

It's that simple. Granger had better stats, but the system allowed that. George has much more impact now already than Granger ever did, and doesn't even have to put up the offensive stats that Granger had to.

maybe because he's a third option and doesn't have to and the fact the team is better overall then when Danny was putting the ball in the basket . Shooting what 40% is not 18 a mil type of play and Pacers fan are you serious . We all know the Pacers fan base is suspect to say the least the definition of fair weather. Oh and Lebron put up what 30 + that was his highest ppg during the playoffs and that was his worst playoffs overall stat wise . Jimmy Butler did a better job on him and Lebron put the clamps on George in game 7. Think if Lebron spent the whole series guarding instead having the much smaller and hobbled D Wade

[DaeDae]

Well Paul George is not even as good as Danny Granger at his best yet . His offensive game needs ton of work and his Defense is good but not great . He has all the physical attributes but I don't think he is smart enough as a basketball player to get elite level money and he doesn't have the charisma to put fannies in seats either . He is still a project but the Pacers had to be proactive because the Lakers would have made a strong run at him. He is not a number 1 nor even a number 2 yet he is a third option. He's success now has a lot to do with teams not game planning for him on offense . He takes bad shots , doesn't attack the rim enough , isn't strong or low enough with his dribble he has a ton of work to do on his game offensively and defensively he is a tad bit overrated out of all the people that had to guard Lebron during the post season he was torched the most . He did do a great job on Melo but Bron was killing him.

Uh.....as Pacers fans who have watched both throughout their careers, Paul George is already better than Granger ever was in terms of impacting games. George is a lockdown perimeter defender, more-so since he gets to pair up with an interior game changer defensively in Hibbert. However, George is miles ahead of where Granger ever was defensively. Sure, Granger was a better shooter offensively and put up more points (he played in a system under Jim O'Brien that pushed him to shoot as many 3's as possible, and his next best players were Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy). However, Granger never has had as good handles as Paul George has now, and that's even with recognizing that Paul's handles are still a bit shaky (though miles better than they were coming into the league).

George shut down Melo and JR Smith in the playoffs. LeBron had to play the most dominant game of his life just to put up his averages. Paul made him work his butt off on both ends of the court. Put anyone other than Paul George or Kawhi Leonard on LeBron in that series, and LeBron was putting up 40+ per night, easy.

It's that simple. Granger had better stats, but the system allowed that. George has much more impact now already than Granger ever did, and doesn't even have to put up the offensive stats that Granger had to.

While I agree with your original push back, there's too much hyperbole in this post to be taken seriously.

[dc]

maybe because he's a third option and doesn't have to and the fact the team is better overall then when Danny was putting the ball in the basket . Shooting what 40% is not 18 a mil type play and Pacers fan are sure about that were
you really watching every game . Every body knows the pacers have the worst fans

His team just had their best season in almost 15 years, and that was with Granger pretty much missing the entire season and Paul George starting at his position.

Paul George has some things he needs to work on, but as it is right now he is a 6'8"-6'9" 23 year old all-star. He just averaged 19ppg and 5 assists while being better known for his DEFENSE in the playoffs for a team that made it to Game 7 of the ECF (with Granger not even playing).

Whether you like it or not, these are the types of players who get MAX money in this league.

[dice]

Wow, this thread has exploded. Never realized Paul George and the Pacers have become so popular.

good offense beats good defense

I tend to agree with this. And like you, I think I'd take KD's offense over PG's defense.

I'm sure you realize though, that the Pacers don't actually have the opportunity to get KD, at any price.

Also, I'd question whether star defenders are really getting paid much less than star offensive players. Josh Smith just signed for $14m per (at age 27) and Iggy signed for $12m per (at age 29), and reportedly could have gotten $14m from Sacto, but he turned them down. Paul George earns a premium over both because he's much younger, and rightly or wrongly he's regarded as having more offensive potential.

Btw, I do think with this contract, the Pacers ARE expecting George to turn into an offensive star. He's not there yet, but there are promising signs. Whether he does get there or not is the big question, of course. As a Pacer fan this is the number one thing I'd be worried about, but as I said, the signs are there.

i agree with almost all of this. except that the defensive players you note with the big contracts are also considered to have other skills (wrongly in josh smith's case, correctly in iggy's case). one-dimensional wing defenders just don't get the big salaries. thabo and bruce bowen, for example, who have both topped out at $4 mil a year. and bowen even had an excellent 3 point shot. compare these guys to someone like melo, who is not known to play much defense but who fills it up pretty regularly. and melo is not even on the top tier of offensive performers. but i don't think there was much hesitation giving him in excess of $20 mil annually

also note that there are lots of guys with great defensive acumen who are available at minimum salaries (ronnie brewer, for one). the same cannot be said of many guys with excellent offensive production who are considered defensive liabilities. for example, it was a surprise that nate robinson only got 2 mil for the coming year despite solid offensive production for the bulls

[dc]

and melo is not even on the top tier of offensive performers. but i don't think there was much hesitation giving him in excess of $20 mil annually

I'm far from a Carmelo fanboy, but he has been one of the best offensive players in the game since he came into the league. The guy is one of the most versatile scorers the league has seen. He fills it up despite getting doubled, tripled and game planned around year in and year out.

[Twelve20Nine]

maybe because he's a third option and doesn't have to and the fact the team is better overall then when Danny was putting the ball in the basket . Shooting what 40% is not 18 a mil type play and Pacers fan are sure about that were
you really watching every game . Every body knows the pacers have the worst fans

His team just had their best season in almost 15 years, and that was with Granger pretty much missing the entire season and Paul George starting at his position.

Paul George has some things to work on, but right now he is a 6'8"-6'9" 23 year old all-star. He just averaged 19ppg and 5 assists while being better known for his DEFENSE in the playoffs for a team that made it to Game 7 of the ECF (with Granger not even playing).

Whether you like it or not, these are the types of players who get MAX money in this league.

David West and Roy Hibbert were the reasons for their playoff success lets be real . Paul George has one good season and 1 good playoff , where he wasn't even the focal point of the offensive or had to carry a major load and He is one of the reasons they lost that playoff series . Danny is the better player , Paul George hasn't shown any consistency . Danny has several good seasons and Paul has 1 . I like Paul George but he is not worth 90 million also he's 6'10. Again he got that because potential and future demand not because he has a 90 million dollar impact on the court or because he's even marketable . At least Joe Johnson was putting numbers on the board .

[Scoot McGroot]

maybe because he's a third option and doesn't have to and the fact the team is better overall then when Danny was putting the ball in the basket . Shooting what 40% is not 18 a mil type play and Pacers fan are sure about that were
you really watching every game . Every body knows the pacers have the worst fans

His team just had their best season in almost 15 years, and that was with Granger pretty much missing the entire season and Paul George starting at his position.

Paul George has some things to work on, but right now he is a 6'8"-6'9" 23 year old all-star. He just averaged 19ppg and 5 assists while being better known for his DEFENSE in the playoffs for a team that made it to Game 7 of the ECF (with Granger not even playing).

Whether you like it or not, these are the types of players who get MAX money in this league.

David West and Roy Hibbert were the reasons for their playoff success lets be real . Paul George has one good season and 1 good playoff , where he wasn't even the focal point of the offensive or had to carry a major load and He is one of the reasons they lost that playoff series . Danny is the better player , Paul George hasn't shown any consistency . Danny has several good seasons and Paul has 1 . I like Paul George but he is not worth 90 million also he's 6'10. Again he got that because potential and future demand not because he has a 90 million dollar impact on the court or because he's even marketable . At least Joe Johnson was putting numbers on the board .

Sorry man. You're flat out wrong. George was extremely important on the wings. West made some clutch shots, and ultimately is most responsible for being the veteran leader that instilled the "toughness" culture. Otherwise, the perimeter defense of George and the interior defense of Hibbert went hand in hand to leading us through the playoffs.

But George has more impact on games than Granger ever did. If all you do is look at offensive stats like PPG, then you may be lead to believe that Granger is better than George. However, it's simply not the case.


I'm not saying that George is an MVP in this league, nor will he be. I think he's a terrific perimeter defender who can also contribute heavily offensively, and has a chance to grow his game.

Ultimately, there's simply a lot of confusion here on the contract. The question isn't "Is Indy overpaying George?", because that's simply the cost to re-sign him. If we don't pay him a max, many other teams will lineup to do so. The question is should Indy keep George, or trade him like OKC did with Harden for a smattering of low priced pieces? That's the only other option. Picking a number out of the air and saying "They should only pay him $65m..." just isn't possible. That's not the way it works.

There's arguments about "George is making more than Harden?!?", but confusion of how the system works. Technically, George is scheduled to make the same as Harden, the same 25% max contract. The difference lies in that simply George's contract will start when the cap is higher than Harden's did. 25% of $60m is higher than 25% of $58m. Then, when you factor in the same max 7.5% raises per year, it makes George's deal a big higher, even though it's the same contract. It's the same reason that George will make more on his 2nd contract than Kevin Durant will have made on his 2nd contract, just a higher cap for his 25% to be more. Heck, the same 25% max contract the following year for Kyrie Irving will be probably around $10 million more than Paul George's max will be, with just a small rise in the cap from 2014 to 2015. That's just how it works.

So, ultimately, should Indy re-sign Paul George, trade him for pieces like Harden, or let him walk for nothing? Keep in mind how the salary cap works though. If Indy lets Paul George walk for nothing in return, Indy won't have that same $17m-ish in year one to spend, but rather, only about $8m, and only if we let Danny Granger and Lance Stephenson walk for nothing.

So, max George, and re-sign Lance to an MLE level deal, while keeping the rest of the roster intact (but letting Granger walk), or let George, Granger, and Lance walk and hitting free agency with almost $8m to spend? That's pretty much the question. You can try and dicker price with George, but that's just the way the market works.

[microfib4thewin]

On one hand, I can understand Pacers wanting to lock a deal with George asap. You are very unlikely going to find a player of George's caliber at his age in the open market. On the other hand, having played well for only one year and without knowing how George and Granger will play together the extension is too early IMO. It reminded me of Diaw playing well for one year without Amare, the Suns gave him a 45 mil extension and he ended up struggling after Amare came back. If it ended up not working out you will have not one but two players whose value on the team doesn't reflect the amount they're paid.

The good thing is they can let Granger go if it doesn't work out after next season so it won't be as bad as the situations the Suns were in. The bad thing is if George is only a one year wonder then the Pacers will be greatly handicapped and it will kill any chance they have to build a contender.

[dice]

and melo is not even on the top tier of offensive performers. but i don't think there was much hesitation giving him in excess of $20 mil annually

I'm far from a Carmelo fanboy, but he has been one of the best offensive players in the game since he came into the league. The guy is one of the most versatile scorers the league has seen

versatility doesn't mean much if you don't make the shot. and melo too often doesn't make the shot

[Twelve20Nine]

His team just had their best season in almost 15 years, and that was with Granger pretty much missing the entire season and Paul George starting at his position.

Paul George has some things to work on, but right now he is a 6'8"-6'9" 23 year old all-star. He just averaged 19ppg and 5 assists while being better known for his DEFENSE in the playoffs for a team that made it to Game 7 of the ECF (with Granger not even playing).

Whether you like it or not, these are the types of players who get MAX money in this league.

David West and Roy Hibbert were the reasons for their playoff success lets be real . Paul George has one good season and 1 good playoff , where he wasn't even the focal point of the offensive or had to carry a major load and He is one of the reasons they lost that playoff series . Danny is the better player , Paul George hasn't shown any consistency . Danny has several good seasons and Paul has 1 . I like Paul George but he is not worth 90 million also he's 6'10. Again he got that because potential and future demand not because he has a 90 million dollar impact on the court or because he's even marketable . At least Joe Johnson was putting numbers on the board .

Sorry man. You're flat out wrong. George was extremely important on the wings. West made some clutch shots, and ultimately is most responsible for being the veteran leader that instilled the "toughness" culture. Otherwise, the perimeter defense of George and the interior defense of Hibbert went hand in hand to leading us through the playoffs.

But George has more impact on games than Granger ever did. If all you do is look at offensive stats like PPG, then you may be lead to believe that Granger is better than George. However, it's simply not the case.


I'm not saying that George is an MVP in this league, nor will he be. I think he's a terrific perimeter defender who can also contribute heavily offensively, and has a chance to grow his game.

Ultimately, there's simply a lot of confusion here on the contract. The question isn't "Is Indy overpaying George?", because that's simply the cost to re-sign him. If we don't pay him a max, many other teams will lineup to do so. The question is should Indy keep George, or trade him like OKC did with Harden for a smattering of low priced pieces? That's the only other option. Picking a number out of the air and saying "They should only pay him $65m..." just isn't possible. That's not the way it works.

There's arguments about "George is making more than Harden?!?", but confusion of how the system works. Technically, George is scheduled to make the same as Harden, the same 25% max contract. The difference lies in that simply George's contract will start when the cap is higher than Harden's did. 25% of $60m is higher than 25% of $58m. Then, when you factor in the same max 7.5% raises per year, it makes George's deal a big higher, even though it's the same contract. It's the same reason that George will make more on his 2nd contract than Kevin Durant will have made on his 2nd contract, just a higher cap for his 25% to be more. Heck, the same 25% max contract the following year for Kyrie Irving will be probably around $10 million more than Paul George's max will be, with just a small rise in the cap from 2014 to 2015. That's just how it works.

So, ultimately, should Indy re-sign Paul George, trade him for pieces like Harden, or let him walk for nothing? Keep in mind how the salary cap works though. If Indy lets Paul George walk for nothing in return, Indy won't have that same $17m-ish in year one to spend, but rather, only about $8m, and only if we let Danny Granger and Lance Stephenson walk for nothing.

So, max George, and re-sign Lance to an MLE level deal, while keeping the rest of the roster intact (but letting Granger walk), or let George, Granger, and Lance walk and hitting free agency with almost $8m to spend? That's pretty much the question. You can try and dicker price with George, but that's just the way the market works.

14 ,15 ,5,16,17 that's how much money in millions the last 5 mvps have made . If your a Pacers fan and you don't even think he has a chance to be a MVP caliber player why is he making MVP money . Do you even own a Paul George Jersey ? Again he is over paid for his impact even if Lebron is anomaly . 17 pts 41% from the field and that's his best year as a pro are you serious?

[Scoot McGroot]

14 ,15 ,5,16,17 that's how much money in millions the last 5 mvps have made . If your a Pacers fan and you don't even think he has a chance to be a MVP caliber player why is he making MVP money . Do you even own a Paul George Jersey ? Again he is over paid for his impact even if Lebron is anomaly . 17 pts 41% from the field and that's his best year as a pro are you serious?

So, you just don't understand the CBA at all? Rookie contract for Rose, that then became a salary equal or greater (in terms of percentage of cap) than George will make. Lebron took less in Miami, but was on the max contract for the previous CBA while in Cleveland. So, I don't understand what you're trying to prove.

And, you apparently only look at offensive stats, so you're missing the beautiful part of Paul George's game.

Do I own a Paul George jersey? Why is that question snuck in? However, no, I don't own a Paul George jersey. Then again, the only jersey's I own are from when I was pre-18. That's been awhile.

[Scoot McGroot]

The good thing is they can let Granger go if it doesn't work out after next season so it won't be as bad as the situations the Suns were in. The bad thing is if George is only a one year wonder then the Pacers will be greatly handicapped and it will kill any chance they have to build a contender.

If George isn't a top 25 kind of player, then there's no chance of building a contender, either way. We're still capped out without him, and still a playoff team without him. No high picks, no cap space. Either he helps us get to contending, as he already has, or we have no other way to get a different player that can help us contend.


Also, not just you, but a lot of weird beliefs of Danny Granger here from fans from around the league. Not sure where they're coming from.