Pacers Finalizing $90M Extension For Paul George

[Bruteque]

The scary thing about George is that his offense still has a lot of room for improvement: Offensively, he has the tools you can't develop and most of the thing he's not great at are acquirable skills. It is simply much easier to win a championship with a two-way star player tying up the max than a one-way star player tying up the max. Securing George long-term, even at the max, puts IND decidedly ahead of the likes of CHI with Rose and NYK with Melo in terms of championship contention.

IND may be able to save $2-3 mil a year betting on George's current offensive skill level causing him to be undervalued in the RFA market. However, they will have to ask themselves the hard question of whether it will be worth the possibility of having George locked down for one fewer year or making George unhappy when he hits the UFA market after his next contract expires.

[Nuntius]

and Pacers fan are you serious . We all know the Pacers fan base is suspect to say the least the definition of fair weather.

Yeah, yeah. Those fans that stuck through the Malice in the Palace debacle and the Jim O'Brien era are the definition of fair weather

[Pacerlive]

Hibbert got overpaid too last year but Pacer fans were all smiles when it mattered. I am not concerned with whatever posters think of PG. The owner and the prez both felt he was worth it and they have more class and knowledge of basketball than anyone on here.

[xBulletproof]

Holy crap. Reading this thread as a Pacers fan is quite funny.

First off, Granger is better than Paul George? That's funny. Hilarious even.

Anyway, I'll start off with a post I made about Paul George on another forum BEFORE last season. I pretty much nailed it from top to bottom what happened during the NBA season.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread. ... ost1511922

That said, a couple of guys kept saying that by year 3 you know what a player is. Sure. For Lebron, or Durant who had the same role in high school, college, and their first day in the NBA, sure. Paul George's career path to being a star player is ALREADY an outlier on the scale of how NBA All Stars are groomed. The guy didn't play AAU in high school, and wasn't recruited. He went to a small school and wasn't really on NBA teams radar until the last couple weeks up to the draft.

That post I provided from the other website sums it up. This year was the guys first time in the NBA running barely any pick and rolls, or handling the ball regularly. He has a ton to learn before he's nearly as comfortable with that role as guys who have had that role their entire basketball lives, and learn he will. It's been exciting as a Pacers fan to watch him make mistakes and apply them directly soon after. He learns quickly and adjusts. He still has ZERO post game, even just adding that one dimension would make a big difference.

That said the guy has hired several trainers (ball handling coach, FTW) for the offseason and said his focus is on improving his isolation game. We will see pretty early if that's paid off. His area's of attention are pretty clear and were so bad even small upgrades in his post game and mid range shooting would net major results. For someone willing to work as hard as he is I have no doubts he will get it done.

That said, I'll leave you with 2 quotes. One from Lebron James and another from Dwayne Wade.

Someone in the Indy media asked Lebron what Paul needs to do to be in his category as a player, and Lebron said he knows what he needs to do, but he's not going to say anything until the season was over. He didn't want Paul to know right before the Miami v Indiana series. Pretty clear Lebron loves Paul's game and see's him as a potential superstar, between his comments and his on the court attention he gave Paul after they went at each other. He also played him every day in the Team USA camps, Lebrons sees it.

On a local radio show Dwayne Wade was asked what he thought of Paul George after seeing him at the Team USA camps before last season. His response was this .... "Man .... when that dude puts it all together, I hope I'm retired".

His peers get it. Fans of other teams will too at some point.

[microfib4thewin]

Also, not just you, but a lot of weird beliefs of Danny Granger here from fans from around the league. Not sure where they're coming from.

When both players play the same position I do not find it weird to question how they fit in the overall scheme. It would be an outlier for Granger and George to play perfectly with each other, not the other way around.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Also, not just you, but a lot of weird beliefs of Danny Granger here from fans from around the league. Not sure where they're coming from.

When both players play the same position I do not find it weird to question how they fit in the overall scheme. It would be an outlier for Granger and George to play perfectly with each other, not the other way around.

The SG and SF position on the Pacers are essentially the same exact thing. I fail to see why people refuse to recognize that.

[daschysta]

Some people are really claiming George's production has peaked at last years level?

Even if he didn't improve going forward (overwhelmingly unlikely) his numbers next year should be far superior next year just by virtue of not having a terrible first month where he was adjusting to a role he wasn't expecting...

November: 14.3 ppg 6 rpg 3.3 ppg 50.34%ts
Dec: 18.8 ppg 7.6 rpg 4.1 apg 56.7%ts
Jan: 19.4 ppg 9.1 rpg 3.9 apg 52.1%ts
Feb: 18.8 ppg 8.4 rpg 5 apg 56.3%ts
Mar: 18.3 ppg 7.4 rpg 4.1 rpg 53.9% ts

George had a wrist injury the final few games too. He also showed the ability to get to the line in the postseason and should be the beneficiary of more calls next season due to his increased rep. His 4 full month averages after november tally (18.8 ppg 8.1 rpg 4.2 apg on 54.6 ts% ) and fall in line with his postseason of 19.4 ppg 7.5 rpg 5 apg 54.8 ts%, yet somehow despite a 76 game sample of George scoring about 19 ppg 8 rpg and 4.5 apg on good 54.8%ts as a somewhat raw 22 year old athletic freak he's supposedly capped at 17 7 and 4?
George isn't nearly as offensively inept as he's being made out to be, even now, which is scary considering he's still learning to get to the line (6.7 times a game in the playoffs) and adjusting to being a featured scorer (last year was his first time) If Paul just gets to the line 5 or 5.5 times per game next season he'll easily be a 20-22 ppg scorer on respectable efficiency. People here exxagerate his inefficiency based on one outlier month of the season (an understandable adjustment period not representative of the player he was the vast majority of the season and postseason) and a few games at the end where he had a wrist injury. Since when is nearly 55% ts that he put up most of the year and in the playoffs really inefficient? League average was 53...

[Twelve20Nine]

14 ,15 ,5,16,17 that's how much money in millions the last 5 mvps have made . If your a Pacers fan and you don't even think he has a chance to be a MVP caliber player why is he making MVP money . Do you even own a Paul George Jersey ? Again he is over paid for his impact even if Lebron is anomaly . 17 pts 41% from the field and that's his best year as a pro are you serious?

So, you just don't understand the CBA at all? Rookie contract for Rose, that then became a salary equal or greater (in terms of percentage of cap) than George will make. Lebron took less in Miami, but was on the max contract for the previous CBA while in Cleveland. So, I don't understand what you're trying to prove.

And, you apparently only look at offensive stats, so you're missing the beautiful part of Paul George's game.

Do I own a Paul George jersey? Why is that question snuck in? However, no, I don't own a Paul George jersey. Then again, the only jersey's I own are from when I was pre-18. That's been awhile.

Its obviously you don't understand the CBA why would you put so much money into a player that is not an elite level talent yet and probably won't be one in the future . From the Jordan to Lebron the Elite players were never paid at the top of the scale . Your putting 18 mil a year into someone who will not effect your bottom line as a team . Your overpaying Paul George , He does not move merchandise , he's not going to get you more Nationally Televised games , or fill seats (17th in attendance oh those pacers fans really support their team) probably won't win you a chip either. Paul George's defense is overrated and if your giving a guy 18 mil he better be putting numbers on the board . I guess fan is a synonym for incompetent how can you watch this guy for 3 seasons and say hey he's worth 18 mil a year off his on court performance. Even being competitive in the free agent market with potential suitors , Paul would have made about 14-15 at the most . The Luxury Tax is far to punitive to give out 90 mil deals to third banana defensive specialist when the NBA is a offensive league .

[DASMACKDOWN]

Securing George long-term, even at the max, puts IND decidedly ahead of the likes of CHI with Rose and NYK with Melo in terms of championship contention.

This comment makes no sense. Both Rose and Melo are better than Paul George.

[DetroitSho]

14 ,15 ,5,16,17 that's how much money in millions the last 5 mvps have made . If your a Pacers fan and you don't even think he has a chance to be a MVP caliber player why is he making MVP money . Do you even own a Paul George Jersey ? Again he is over paid for his impact even if Lebron is anomaly . 17 pts 41% from the field and that's his best year as a pro are you serious?

So, you just don't understand the CBA at all? Rookie contract for Rose, that then became a salary equal or greater (in terms of percentage of cap) than George will make. Lebron took less in Miami, but was on the max contract for the previous CBA while in Cleveland. So, I don't understand what you're trying to prove.

And, you apparently only look at offensive stats, so you're missing the beautiful part of Paul George's game.

Do I own a Paul George jersey? Why is that question snuck in? However, no, I don't own a Paul George jersey. Then again, the only jersey's I own are from when I was pre-18. That's been awhile.

Its obviously you don't understand the CBA why would you put so much money into a player that is not an elite level talent yet and probably won't be one in the future . From the Jordan to Lebron the Elite players were never paid at the top of the scale . Your putting 18 mil a year into someone who will not effect your bottom line as a team . Your overpaying Paul George , He does not move merchandise , he's not going to get you more Nationally Televised games , or fill seats (17th in attendance oh those pacers fans really support their team) probably won't win you a chip either. Paul George's defense is overrated and if your giving a guy 18 mil he better be putting numbers on the board . I guess fan is a synonym for incompetent how can you watch this guy for 3 seasons and say hey he's worth 18 mil a year off his on court performance. Even being competitive in the free agent market with potential suitors , Paul would have made about 14-15 at the most . The Luxury Tax is far to punitive to give out 90 mil deals to third banana defensive specialist when the NBA is a offensive league .

Just wow

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[DASMACKDOWN]

I guess fan is a synonym for incompetent how can you watch this guy for 3 seasons and say hey he's worth 18 mil a year off his on court performance. Even being competitive in the free agent market with potential suitors , Paul would have made about 14-15 at the most . The Luxury Tax is far to punitive to give out 90 mil deals to third banana defensive specialist when the NBA is a offensive league .

Well actually that's what he will get about 16mil. 80/5 Which by all accounts is probably a slight overpay but given the team and circumstances, its completely fine.

The 5/90mil gets this reaction from fans because it probably would be a gross overpay based on a season but if he actually makes the all NBA squad (which will be a lot harder this year) he probably deserves it.

[DWiz]

As much as I'd like to see the Pacers get screwed, I just hope this doesn't turn out to be a Rudy Gay type situation for them. I want to see George blossom, but right I'm not seeing a 90 mil worthy amount of potential

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[bledredwine]

I have been a huge PG fan since The days I was asking to trade up for the 5th pick and draft him on the Bulls. That being said, this is an insane amount of money for a 16.7 points per 36 min player on low efficiency, regardless of his D. I'm not saying he won't improve, but he's had his 3rd year and at age 22 there's only so much more he will improve. Either way, it a ridiculous contract for him but also something the Pacers had to do because they will not attract star free agents and there's currently a shortage of young stars in the league anyway. They're also giving him this extension because he's one of the players who can hold their own against Lebron.

[bondom34]

Are we all just looking at box scores now? The guy's a great defensive player on a contending team and had a great playoff run. I can't argue his numbers aren't flashy, but locking up a young player who's likely to improve is great for Indy. For comparison (RAPM from 12/13), a few notable names in the same range:

Larry Sanders: 3.2
PG: 2.9
John Wall: 2.9 (just got similar deal)
Deron Williams: 2.3
Pekovic: 2.0
Melo: 2.3
Bosh: 1.9

PG stil is much more likely to improve than not, I think its great to get a guy like this now. There's something to be said for making a potential franchise player happy as well.

[Trader_Joe]

Are we all just looking at box scores now? The guy's a great defensive player on a contending team and had a great playoff run. I can't argue his numbers aren't flashy, but locking up a young player who's likely to improve is great for Indy. For comparison (RAPM from 12/13), a few notable names in the same range:

Larry Sanders: 3.2
PG: 2.9
John Wall: 2.9 (just got similar deal)
Deron Williams: 2.3
Pekovic: 2.0
Melo: 2.3
Bosh: 1.9

PG stil is much more likely to improve than not, I think its great to get a guy like this now. There's something to be said for making a potential franchise player happy as well.

Not only will he improve, his (in) efficiency is grossly overstated.

He will get more efficient on his own, but also if he had a point guard with better passing ability he would be much more efficient.

[Pacerlive]

I have been a huge PG fan since The days I was asking to trade up for the 5th pick and draft him on the Bulls. That being said, this is an insane amount of money for a 16.7 points per 36 min player on low efficiency, regardless of his D. I'm not saying he won't improve, but he's had his 3rd year and at age 22 there's only so much more he will improve. Either way, it a ridiculous contract for him but also something the Pacers had to do because they will not attract star free agents and there's currently a shortage of young stars in the league anyway. They're also giving him this extension because he's one of the players who can hold their own against Lebron.

What Boozer got was a gross overpay but PG has proved himself to not settle for a mediocre offensive game and thats why the Pacer fans are confident in this contract. Hibbert and PG will not be the guys who no longer strive to get better after a big contract like Joe Johnson or Rudy Gay. They care about both sides of the court and they aren't the ones to make excuses or shift blame if their play is subpar in a given series.

[Total_Package]

Not worth anywhere near 90 mill.

[Cruel_Ruin]

Its great that Indy is showing loyalty to its guys, but this could really hurt them. The Pacers are built as a team that has depth from top to bottom with a great defense, and are going to need some cap flexibility in order to keep those higher end support players around them since PG and Hibbert aren't true superstars. Whats going to happen when Danny Granger needs an extension? David West? Lance Stephenson has showed some promise, what about his extension? This team could get prohibitively expensive very quickly and it would be a shame to see such a promising team blown up because of overvaluation of some of their guys.

[Scoot McGroot]

Not worth anywhere near 90 mill.

If he makes all-NBA next year or wins the MVP, would he be worth it? That's the only way he'll get the 30% max. Otherwise, he's at the 25% max contract.

The whole $80 or $90m is completely overblown. It's just the exact same as a max contract two or 3 years ago but in NBA inflation terms.

And some people are really upset and retentive about $1-2m a year difference.


Here's the thing though. If Indy let George play out this year and then matched offers, ANYONE could offer him the 30% max that we'd have to match, but just at 4.5% instead of 7.5% raises. Over the first four years, that would only be about $3m difference, total. However, they can only offer 4 years, this way, we can offer 5 and control him that extra year.

So, what else should Indy have done that's realistic? Let him walk for nothing, sign him to this deal, or trade him a la Harden for spare pieces? Just making up a number of $14m is not possible, because the market would show that he'll get higher offers. So you'd either have to match the same max or let him walk.


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[Scoot McGroot]

Its great that Indy is showing loyalty to its guys, but this could really hurt them. The Pacers are built as a team that has depth from top to bottom with a great defense, and are going to need some cap flexibility in order to keep those higher end support players around them since PG and Hibbert aren't true superstars. Whats going to happen when Danny Granger needs an extension? David West? Lance Stephenson has showed some promise, what about his extension? This team could get prohibitively expensive very quickly and it would be a shame to see such a promising team blown up because of overvaluation of some of their guys.

West is signed until he retires already. Then, it was either sign George and let Danny walk or let George walk to sign Danny. Pretty easy choice, huh? For Lance, it looks like we can offer up a deal of first year from $5-7.5m depending on if George makes all-NBA or not and how much the cap rises. If he walks, we'll make the same offer to Danny. If he walks, too, we'll hit free agency with a full MLE to offer for a SG or SF to play with George and recent 1st rounder Solo Hill. There's cap relief set up and options to maintain the roster.


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