2013-14 German Bundesliga Thread: Bayern Champs Again

Post #361 » by **ATL Boy** » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:31 pm

Dortmund sends a message by beating Freidburg 5-0 today

Foye · Post #362 » by **Foye** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:35 am

ATL Boy wrote:Dortmund sends a message by beating Freidburg 5-0 today

Hopefully, they saved some goals for Marseille on Tuesday. :lol:

J-Mezzy · Post #363 » by **J-Mezzy** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:53 am

Bayern is just not as sharp as they were last season. I was really hoping for a repeat if Chelsea don't win it, but I am not as confident as I once was.

Foye · Post #364 » by **Foye** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:24 pm

Keep calm J-Mezzy. New coach, new system and a lot of injuries. They had a lot of unimpressing wins in the first leg of the Bundesliga season last year as well. They'll be ready as soon as the important games start in the second leg of the season.

This week will be a good test for Bayern. Away at City and Leverkusen.

postup · Post #365 » by **postup** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:47 pm

ATL Boy wrote:Dortmund sends a message by beating Freidburg 5-0 today

Yeah, but I fear the BL is turning into the Spanish league (or Scottish prior to the Rangers' castration).

Sure, Leverkusen's still close, but that won't last and the other two are just blowing people away, save for the occasional close call (eg. Wolfsburg) or hiccup.

Of course, all of that will change once my Köln is back where it belongs!

cgf · Post #366 » by **cgf** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:13 pm

Or if Schalke ever get a coach that they stick with like BVB have in Klopp.

Foye · Post #367 » by **Foye** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:31 pm

The problem is that Bundesliga teams cant compete with EPL teams on the transfer market. The financial situation of most clubs is stable but they cant compete with the spending power of EPL clubs to attract good foreign players.

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postup · Post #368 » by **postup** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:14 pm

Foye wrote:The problem is that Bundesliga teams cant compete with EPL teams on the transfer market. The financial situation of most clubs is stable but they cant compete with the spending power of EPL clubs to attract good foreign players.

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True. Same with Barcelona and Real, though it should also go noted that many EPL and Spanish (and Italian in the past) teams would not even have received their licence in the BL due to debt structure. Remember the hey-day of the Serie A?

Having both BVB and Bayern get a major cash injection by reaching the CL final adds a whole other element, of course.

I'll also give the EPL credit in that it's shaping up to be an excited season. Go Spurs!

postup · Post #369 » by **postup** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:15 pm

And here's a Kumbaya moment for you all: I feel like being rescued from a deserted island having stumbled upon this forum, so thank you!

Foye · Post #370 » by **Foye** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:31 pm

As of right now no league can compete with EPL teams in spending power. No wonder as long as sponsors like adidas keep.throwing.ridiculous deals around for EPL teams. The sum Chelsea is getting from their new kit deal absolutely makes you wanna throw up.

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Foye · Post #371 » by **Foye** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:33 pm

Even Bayern Munich isnt.getting anywhere close to what Chelsea gets from adidas...and adidas is a German company. This.is.really confusing to be honest.

Obviously, more.people around the world watch the EPL than any other soccer league but still these sums arent reasonable anymore if they ever were.

J-Mezzy · Post #372 » by **J-Mezzy** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:51 pm

EPL teams are just much more marketable. A great deal of Adidas' business comes from the U.S and the EPL, especially Chelsea, is the most popular league in America. Bayern pretty much have Germany as the primary source of revenue and the rest of the world as a secondary source. Chelsea has all of Britain and America as a primary source and the rest of the world as a secondary. Chelsea's primary market is significantly bigger.

Either way, if the EPL gets on the trend of signing German talent (as they seem to be doing), then the BL will have a serious problem. The elite players will play for BVB and Bayern and the second batch of great players will go to the EPL. I hope that doesn't happen because the BL is very fun to watch.

cgf · Post #373 » by **cgf** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:26 am

Not a lot of Germans elect to go abroad and as long as teams keep investing in the youth systems the players who do leave will be replaced and the massive amounts EPL teams can pay will help a lot of clubs improve their already sound financial footing. Add the BuLi getting new foreign tv deals on the back of Bayern and Dortmund's conquest of Europe come 2015, and I have zero worries about the BuLi in the immediate future unless a lot of teams get stupid with that extra tv money.

Foye · Post #374 » by **Foye** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:20 am

J-Mezzy wrote:EPL teams are just much more marketable. A great deal of Adidas' business comes from the U.S and the EPL, especially Chelsea, is the most popular league in America. Bayern pretty much have Germany as the primary source of revenue and the rest of the world as a secondary source. Chelsea has all of Britain and America as a primary source and the rest of the world as a secondary. Chelsea's primary market is significantly bigger.

Either way, if the EPL gets on the trend of signing German talent (as they seem to be doing), then the BL will have a serious problem. The elite players will play for BVB and Bayern and the second batch of great players will go to the EPL. I hope that doesn't happen because the BL is very fun to watch.

I'm not saying what you say isnt true but that deal is still astronomically high.

If I m Adidas and.want to reach the American market I dont invest my money in Chelsea either. If I want to reach the American market I try to sponsor NBA, NFL, US national team or even college teams before, sorry, I blow my.money in Abramovichs a**.

Point forward · Post #375 » by **Point forward** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:03 am

postup wrote:And here's a Kumbaya moment for you all: I feel like being rescued from a deserted island having stumbled upon this forum, so thank you!

On topic: After the Hoffenheim match, Schalke has suspended Jermaine Jones after (yet another) series of blackouts. His reaction? Intending to have a knee surgery "this week instead of waiting for December". Coach and management found some PRETTY UNPLEASANT words, so Jones meekly did a U-turn and said "I rather stay on the bench and remain available, even if I am not at 100%".

Jones is in a real hole. Atm, he has too little tactical discipline (i.e. he tries to play #10 instead of #6) and is a shaky passer, resulting in easy counterattacks for the opponent. His once-feared tackling is also off. Honestly, if he does not improve, I don't see him returning quickly.

BTW: Jones's contract is expiring.

Maex · Post #376 » by **Maex** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:11 am

Foye wrote:No wonder as long as sponsors like adidas keep.throwing.ridiculous deals around for EPL teams. The sum Chelsea is getting from their new kit deal absolutely makes you wanna throw up.

I do not have numbers for the Chelsea deal, but don't let you fool you from pure numbers.

Just to give you an example, I am going to compare the Bayern vs. the Manchester United deal:

Manchester United agreed to a flat fee which are the numbers mentioned in the media. But in exchange Nike is taking care about all merchandising within the 13 year contract. They practically outsourced their all their licensing, merchandising and retail operations. Additionally they get 50% of Nike's net profit through this business, which equals £3.2 million(2009) and £5.7 million (2011) ([url]Source e.g. http://citywire.co.uk/money/manchester- ... al/a214870[/url]).
This cumulated to £23.3 million, £26.5 million and £31.3 million for each of the years ended June 30, 2009, 2010 and 2011, respectively.

While the plain number from the Bayern/adidas agreement are below that numbers, on the other hand they haven't outsourced its licensing, merchandising and retail operations. They doing it by themselves. In the end Bayern's deal is far more profitable.

As I said before, I have no deeper insight at the Chelsea deal and I don't know about the next adidas/Manchester United agreement. This is just one example

My point is, that comparing the plain numbers is worthless and a wide spread mistake, which even experts in football financial are doing, like Swiss Ramble. Pisses me of, because they should know better, than just comparing the numbers and not the deal structure.

In consequence, the deals for the PL are not necessarily better than the ones for the Bundesliga.

J-Mezzy · Post #377 » by **J-Mezzy** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:43 am

Foye wrote:
J-Mezzy wrote:EPL teams are just much more marketable. A great deal of Adidas' business comes from the U.S and the EPL, especially Chelsea, is the most popular league in America. Bayern pretty much have Germany as the primary source of revenue and the rest of the world as a secondary source. Chelsea has all of Britain and America as a primary source and the rest of the world as a secondary. Chelsea's primary market is significantly bigger.

Either way, if the EPL gets on the trend of signing German talent (as they seem to be doing), then the BL will have a serious problem. The elite players will play for BVB and Bayern and the second batch of great players will go to the EPL. I hope that doesn't happen because the BL is very fun to watch.

I'm not saying what you say isnt true but that deal is still astronomically high.

If I m Adidas and.want to reach the American market I dont invest my money in Chelsea either. If I want to reach the American market I try to sponsor NBA, NFL, US national team or even college teams before, sorry, I blow my.money in Abramovichs a**.

Adidas already invests a lot in NBA, NFL, etc. At one point they had KG, Duncan, McGrady, etc while they were still in their prime. I guess they are trying to expand their branches as much as they can. I also agree with Maex that the deal may not be as one sided as it looks. There may be a lot more to the structure that we don't see.

Foye · Post #378 » by **Foye** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:51 pm

J-Mezzy wrote:Adidas already invests a lot in NBA, NFL, etc. At one point they had KG, Duncan, McGrady, etc while they were still in their prime. I guess they are trying to expand their branches as much as they can. I also agree with Maex that the deal may not be as one sided as it looks. There may be a lot more to the structure that we don't see.

Structure or not. These sums are very inflated if you ask me.
It's like you get 5x as much sponsoring revenue just because you play in the EPL instead of PD, Ligue 1, Serie A or Bundesliga. :wavefinger:

J-Mezzy · Post #379 » by **J-Mezzy** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:05 pm

These companies are very successful and they evaluate all of their marketing decisions thoroughly. I am certain the pay off to sponsoring EPL teams in comparison to other teams must be significantly higher, otherwise they wouldn't do the deals.

I am with you that the difference shouldn't be so big, but there is a reason. Adidas won't dish out money just for the hell of it.

cgf · Post #380 » by **cgf** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:56 pm

The EPL obviously returns the most money, it's by far the most heavily marketed league in the world and is this the most watched. They may not have a clue how to develop young talent, what to do with all that money or how to play organized football rather than backyard style punt and chase, but the Brits have sure sold the **** out of their league around the league. Although with Germany joining Spain as leagues that play a much higher quality of football, better marketing for the BuLi and new foreign tv deals could close that gap a lot in the coming years.