Dahntay Jones

[drosestruts]

Is MadMike for real? If so...

Naw It's all jokes ova here. I find it hilarious how a player who missed 1/3 of the season due to injuries, and averaged 7 ppg & 5 apg as the starting PG could be so admired by a Bulls fans. While his backup averaged 13.5 ppg & 4 apg while exciting the crowd and durable enough to last thru the 2nd round of the playoffs.
That's like bringing Lebron James off the bench for Michael Beasley.

[MadMike]

Being exciting and being healthier has no relation to on-court ability.
PPG isn't the best measure of a player's worth either.

It doesn't? When you're frequently injured that usually means that you're frequently not playing. What good are you to the team if you're not playing.
PPG & APG are usually a measure of a player's worth @ PG.
That's like starting Kirk Hinrich over Derrick Rose isn't it? Rose may have the better PPG but Hinrich is well Hinrich right?
I'm curious...How was Hinrich's worth in Atlanta, and Washington?

[MadMike]

LATEST NEWS
Kirk Hinrich sat out of practice again on Thursday.
He sat out of Wednesday's practice for what was called general soreness, and we're not going to read too much into these absences unless they carry on a lot longer. This guy don't need to be on the floor this early in the preseason. Oct 3 - 2:39 PM
Source: K.C. Johnson on Twitter

[drosestruts]

You being happy about this confirms my suspicion that you're just a troll. Go back under your bridge and leave us alone.

[dmk08]

Is MadMike for real? If so...

Naw It's all jokes ova here. I find it hilarious how a player who missed 1/3 of the season due to injuries, and averaged 7 ppg & 5 apg as the starting PG could be so admired by a Bulls fans. While his backup averaged 13.5 ppg & 4 apg while exciting the crowd and durable enough to last thru the 2nd round of the playoffs.
That's like bringing Lebron James off the bench for Michael Beasley.

I thought these picture only replies were outlawed?

[MadMike]

You being happy about this confirms my suspicion that you're just a troll. Go back under your bridge and leave us alone.

Why would you suspect me of trolling? Kirk is too old and too broken to make 4 million dollars with the Bulls imo. Especially when I would love to see a young healthy Marquis Teague build his reputation by playing not sitting. He can play backup to Rose. Let him make some mistakes. Let him learn the NBA game by playing against NBA competition. His rookie contract will be up for renewal in a couple of years, and it would be a shame to have him explain his worth when all he's been doing is watching from the bench.
I liked Kirk back in 2004, but like all athletes they have an expiration date. The worst thing for an organization to do is to allow a player to stay a year too long. Then you have to deal with egos, friendships, and it becomes nearly impossible to let him go.

[ManualRam]

i'd rather have a system based on meritocracy, especially since the bulls are supposedly competing this yr. i want the most capable player at each spot in the rotation. if teague is better than kirk, thibs will recognize that and marquis will EARN the back up job. if he isn't, then he shouldn't be given the job just because kirk might eventually get injured again. marquis can learn in practice until he proves that he is at least on par with kirk. he isn't at that point yet.

[drosestruts]

You being happy about this confirms my suspicion that you're just a troll. Go back under your bridge and leave us alone.

Why would you suspect me of trolling? Kirk is too old and too broken to make 4 million dollars with the Bulls imo. Especially when I would love to see a young healthy Marquis Teague build his reputation by playing not sitting. He can play backup to Rose. Let him make some mistakes. Let him learn the NBA game by playing against NBA competition. His rookie contract will be up for renewal in a couple of years, and it would be a shame to have him explain his worth when all he's been doing is watching from the bench.
I liked Kirk back in 2004, but like all athletes they have an expiration date. The worst thing for an organization to do is to allow a player to stay a year too long. Then you have to deal with egos, friendships, and it becomes nearly impossible to let him go.

Kirk's health can be an issue but when he's healthy he's the better option. I don't think Thibs is afraid to play Teague over Hinrich is Teague were better, until then Teague will keep working with coaches and gaining experience in practice and garbage time.

If at the end of his contract, Teague hasn't seen much floor time and is therefore cheaper how is that a bad thing? Our coaches will know what he's capable of.

[MadMike]

i'd rather have a system based on meritocracy, especially since the bulls are supposedly competing this yr. i want the most capable player at each spot in the rotation. if teague is better than kirk, thibs will recognize that and marquis will EARN the back up job. if he isn't, then he shouldn't be given the job just because kirk might eventually get injured again. marquis can learn in practice until he proves that he is at least on par with kirk. he isn't at that point yet.

I agree I would want the best out there too. Thibodeau had Jimmy Butler sitting on his bench for a year and a half. He saw him play in practice, he saw him play in spurts in games. However; It wasn't until he was forced to play him significant mins due to injury was when Thibs saw what Bulls fans saw. Jimmy Butler is one of the top 100 players playing in the NBA.
Thibs is a great coach, but he doesn't have the patience to deal with inexperienced players. And for those young players, they'll never learn how to play the NBA game until they are actually out there trying to defend a CP3, Tony Parker, or Rajon Rondo.
Kirk Hinrich avg'd 7 ppg & 5 apg last season while starting as PG. Now that Derrick's back, I'm sure Teague is enough to be the best capable player @ the backup PG position.

[ManualRam]

i'd rather have a system based on meritocracy, especially since the bulls are supposedly competing this yr. i want the most capable player at each spot in the rotation. if teague is better than kirk, thibs will recognize that and marquis will EARN the back up job. if he isn't, then he shouldn't be given the job just because kirk might eventually get injured again. marquis can learn in practice until he proves that he is at least on par with kirk. he isn't at that point yet.

I agree I would want the best out there too. Thibodeau had Jimmy Butler sitting on his bench for a year and a half. He saw him play in practice, he saw him play in spurts in games. However; It wasn't until he was forced to play him significant mins due to injury was when Thibs saw what Bulls fans saw. Jimmy Butler is one of the top 100 players playing in the NBA.
Thibs is a great coach, but he doesn't have the patience to deal with inexperienced players. And for those young players, they'll never learn how to play the NBA game until they are actually out there trying to defend a CP3, Tony Parker, or Rajon Rondo.
Kirk Hinrich avg'd 7 ppg & 5 apg last season while starting as PG. Now that Derrick's back, I'm sure Teague is enough to be the best capable player @ the backup PG position.

jimmy was sitting on the bench because he was not better than korver or ronnie brewer. the defense was there, but the ball skills were crude, he was passive offensively and didn't have confidence in his jumper. he didn't play until after he...gasp, improved and got better.

thibs is a stubborn coach but i'm right there with him as far as playing the players who he feels deserve to play. if and when teague surpasses hinrich, i'm sure thibs will recognize that and react accordingly, but i doubt he's there yet. kirk was never a guy who you can measure his impact by raw numbers since a lot of his good play occurs on the defensive end. he's also better than teague at organizing, running plays, spotting up and running an offense (of which teague is particularly poor). teague's time will come (or not), but now isn't the time. he was a project when the bulls drafted him and he still is. projects on contending teams learn on the practice floor.

[MadMike]

i'd rather have a system based on meritocracy, especially since the bulls are supposedly competing this yr. i want the most capable player at each spot in the rotation. if teague is better than kirk, thibs will recognize that and marquis will EARN the back up job. if he isn't, then he shouldn't be given the job just because kirk might eventually get injured again. marquis can learn in practice until he proves that he is at least on par with kirk. he isn't at that point yet.

I agree I would want the best out there too. Thibodeau had Jimmy Butler sitting on his bench for a year and a half. He saw him play in practice, he saw him play in spurts in games. However; It wasn't until he was forced to play him significant mins due to injury was when Thibs saw what Bulls fans saw. Jimmy Butler is one of the top 100 players playing in the NBA.
Thibs is a great coach, but he doesn't have the patience to deal with inexperienced players. And for those young players, they'll never learn how to play the NBA game until they are actually out there trying to defend a CP3, Tony Parker, or Rajon Rondo.
Kirk Hinrich avg'd 7 ppg & 5 apg last season while starting as PG. Now that Derrick's back, I'm sure Teague is enough to be the best capable player @ the backup PG position.

jimmy was sitting on the bench because he was not better than korver or ronnie brewer. the defense was there, but the ball skills were crude, he was passive offensively and didn't have confidence in his jumper. he didn't play until after he...gasp, improved and got better.

thibs is a stubborn coach but i'm right there with him as far as playing the players who he feels deserve to play. if and when teague surpasses hinrich, i'm sure thibs will recognize that and react accordingly, but i doubt he's there yet. kirk was never a guy who you can measure his impact by raw numbers since a lot of his good play occurs on the defensive end. he's also better than teague at organizing, running plays, spotting up and running an offense (of which teague is particularly poor). teague's time will come (or not), but now isn't the time. he was a project when the bulls drafted him and he still is. projects on contending teams learn on the practice floor.

You'll hear it straight from the players mouths...The NBA is about confidence. Playing with confidence. You only gain confidence by playing against top tier talent. Knowing what to do and knowing what you can do against them. Personally, I saw the potential in Jimmy long before he became a starter. He played behind Korver, and Brewer because they had experience over Butler not because they were better players. Fast forward to the present and ask yourself, who would you rather have playing on your team Korver, Brewer or Butler? This did not happen because of being better, but by Butler gaining confidence while playing.
Marquis Teague would have the same opportunity to gain confidence if Kirk Hinrich wasn't there playing backup mins. Kirk's no sure thing as a backup due to his injury-prone body. But if those mins were given to Teague from Nov thru Apr I'm sure Bulls fans will see a much improved player, and one with tons of confidence.

[ManualRam]

I agree I would want the best out there too. Thibodeau had Jimmy Butler sitting on his bench for a year and a half. He saw him play in practice, he saw him play in spurts in games. However; It wasn't until he was forced to play him significant mins due to injury was when Thibs saw what Bulls fans saw. Jimmy Butler is one of the top 100 players playing in the NBA.
Thibs is a great coach, but he doesn't have the patience to deal with inexperienced players. And for those young players, they'll never learn how to play the NBA game until they are actually out there trying to defend a CP3, Tony Parker, or Rajon Rondo.
Kirk Hinrich avg'd 7 ppg & 5 apg last season while starting as PG. Now that Derrick's back, I'm sure Teague is enough to be the best capable player @ the backup PG position.

jimmy was sitting on the bench because he was not better than korver or ronnie brewer. the defense was there, but the ball skills were crude, he was passive offensively and didn't have confidence in his jumper. he didn't play until after he...gasp, improved and got better.

thibs is a stubborn coach but i'm right there with him as far as playing the players who he feels deserve to play. if and when teague surpasses hinrich, i'm sure thibs will recognize that and react accordingly, but i doubt he's there yet. kirk was never a guy who you can measure his impact by raw numbers since a lot of his good play occurs on the defensive end. he's also better than teague at organizing, running plays, spotting up and running an offense (of which teague is particularly poor). teague's time will come (or not), but now isn't the time. he was a project when the bulls drafted him and he still is. projects on contending teams learn on the practice floor.

You'll hear it straight from the players mouths...The NBA is about confidence. Playing with confidence. You only gain confidence by playing against top tier talent. Knowing what to do and knowing what you can do against them. Personally, I saw the potential in Jimmy long before he became a starter. He played behind Korver, and Brewer because they had experience over Butler not because they were better players. Fast forward to the present and ask yourself, who would you rather have playing on your team Korver, Brewer or Butler? This did not happen because of being better, but by Butler gaining confidence while playing.
Marquis Teague would have the same opportunity to gain confidence if Kirk Hinrich wasn't there playing backup mins. Kirk's no sure thing as a backup due to his injury-prone body. But if those mins were given to Teague from Nov thru Apr I'm sure Bulls fans will see a much improved player, and one with tons of confidence.

actually it did happen because butler got better. he improved his shooting and improved his handle. he was not ready to play as a defensive specialist because the bulls already had a defensive specialist who was better and ahead of him in the rotation. the question isn't who i'd rather have now, it's "who should've played then" and thibs made the right call. fortunately for the bulls, butler is a grinder and gym rat who put in the work to get better and he was rewarded with a larger role last yr (jimmy WAS a factor in determining who the bulls brought back). we'll see if the same can be said about teague. butler wasn't ready because he wasn't better than either brewer or korver just like teague isn't ready because he isn't better than hinrich. players gaining confidence is a must but the coach has to have confidence in the player in order for them to get that opportunity. on a contending team, one has to happen before the other. if this team was in a different situation and not a contender, i'd agree with you, but they can't afford playing lesser players for the sake of "developmental minutes." that's for losing teams or teams who have no other options but to play the younger, lesser player.

[drosestruts]

You just make it seem like all any player needs is playing time but it's a tricky thing. Put a player out there too early, his confidence gets crushed and maybe he gives up, plenty of talented players have come into the NBA (or any sport really) and are faced with too much pressure and expectations.

When Butler finally got minutes it was due to the team being desimated with injuries and he was able to play free, prior to that any time Butler got the ball he was almost always looking to pass the ball.

To put Teague in just to get him minutes could be distasterous in the development of Teague.

If Hinrich is truly unable to make it through a season like you predict then Teague will receive his chance.

[MadMike]

You just make it seem like all any player needs is playing time but it's a tricky thing. Put a player out there too early, his confidence gets crushed and maybe he gives up, plenty of talented players have come into the NBA (or any sport really) and are faced with too much pressure and expectations.

When Butler finally got minutes it was due to the team being desimated with injuries and he was able to play free, prior to that any time Butler got the ball he was almost always looking to pass the ball.

To put Teague in just to get him minutes could be distasterous in the development of Teague.

If Hinrich is truly unable to make it through a season like you predict then Teague will receive his chance.

You're right. It is a tricky thing. Do it right and it turns out well. Do it wrong and it causes a setback to team chemistry. But you have to do it. You have to allow your young players to play or else you risk overusing your veteran players, and they become fatigued and oft injured by the end of the regular season and into the playoffs.
Jimmy Butler did not have to sit out for a year and a half in order to show off his athletic skills. Yes, he passed the ball and was timid on offense, he still is, but his defense was pretty sound, and Jimmy seemed to grasp the team concept quickly. Plus he did not have to be a scorer w/ Booze, Deng, and Nate around him. All he needed to do is gain confidence. I was impressed w/ his basketball IQ from the beginning.
I don't mind that Teague has sat out for the year last season. He was a raw 19 yr old kid who probably wasn't ready. The Bulls needed veteran leadership at the point thus Kirk (who missed 22 games, avg'd 7 pts & 5 asst), & Nate(avg'd 13.5 pts & 4 asst) were good replacements for Derrick Rose. This year will be different for Teague. He should know the grind of the NBA. He should've learned from his veteran teammates. He should have a good understanding of the size and talent which stands before him. He should know Thibodeau's defense and how to play in it.
This tread was about Dahntay Jones. My original thought was to add Jones and get rid of Kirk. I thought it would be a cheaper solution to the Bulls backup PG spot in case things didn't work out w/ Teague. Why have a 4 million dollar backup PG on the payroll? One who avg'd 7 ppg & 5 apg as a starter. ijs

[drosestruts]

You just make it seem like all any player needs is playing time but it's a tricky thing. Put a player out there too early, his confidence gets crushed and maybe he gives up, plenty of talented players have come into the NBA (or any sport really) and are faced with too much pressure and expectations.

When Butler finally got minutes it was due to the team being desimated with injuries and he was able to play free, prior to that any time Butler got the ball he was almost always looking to pass the ball.

To put Teague in just to get him minutes could be distasterous in the development of Teague.

If Hinrich is truly unable to make it through a season like you predict then Teague will receive his chance.

You're right. It is a tricky thing. Do it right and it turns out well. Do it wrong and it causes a setback to team chemistry. But you have to do it. You have to allow your young players to play or else you risk overusing your veteran players, and they become fatigued and oft injured by the end of the regular season and into the playoffs.
Jimmy Butler did not have to sit out for a year and a half in order to show off his athletic skills. Yes, he passed the ball and was timid on offense, he still is, but his defense was pretty sound, and Jimmy seemed to grasp the team concept quickly. Plus he did not have to be a scorer w/ Booze, Deng, and Nate around him. All he needed to do is gain confidence. I was impressed w/ his basketball IQ from the beginning.
I don't mind that Teague has sat out for the year last season. He was a raw 19 yr old kid who probably wasn't ready. The Bulls needed veteran leadership at the point thus Kirk (who missed 22 games, avg'd 7 pts & 5 asst), & Nate(avg'd 13.5 pts & 4 asst) were good replacements for Derrick Rose. This year will be different for Teague. He should know the grind of the NBA. He should've learned from his veteran teammates. He should have a good understanding of the size and talent which stands before him. He should know Thibodeau's defense and how to play in it.
This tread was about Dahntay Jones. My original thought was to add Jones and get rid of Kirk. I thought it would be a cheaper solution to the Bulls backup PG spot in case things didn't work out w/ Teague. Why have a 4 million dollar backup PG on the payroll? One who avg'd 7 ppg & 5 apg as a starter. ijs

How do you just "get rid of Kirk Hinrich" he has a guaranteed contract? No one's going to trade a pick for an expiring back up point guard.m