2000 Lakers-Blazers Game 7 (Shaq and Kobe)

[Shaqsquatch]

I finished rewatching the Lakers-Blazers game 7 and focused primarily on what Shaq and Kobe were doing.


Touches in the halfcourt (within 15 feet of basket for Shaq, inside 3 point line for Kobe):

Shaq: 40 touches, 36 doubles (90%), 2 triples (2 assists on them), 7 assists/hockey assists, 12 fouls drawn (2 offball)

Kobe had 36 touches, 14 double teams, 2 triples, 5 assists/hockey assists, 6 fouls drawn (1 in backcourt, 1 garbage time intentional foul)

Sabonis guarded Shaq on 29 touches (3-6 FGA), Grant on 7 (1-1 FG), and Jermaine O'neal on 5 (0-0 FG)

Damon Stoudamire guarded Kobe on 12 of his touches (1-4 FG), Pippen guarded him on 15 touches (5-11 FG), wells guarded him on 7 touches (2-2 FG),

-All 6 of Sabonis fouls came against Shaq including 4 in the 4th quarter.

Man to Man defense:

Shaq's man: 4-14 FG: Sabonis went 2-5 FG, Pippen/Smith went 1-6 FG, Sheed 1-2 FG

Kobe's man 6-16 FG: Damon went 2-4 FG vs Kobe, Pippen 1-4 FG, Smith 2-6 FG, Wells 1-2: 1-5 FGA in iso or postup situations


Help situations:

Shaq allowed 2-7 FG (1 of them goaltend) in the paint when he went down to help.

Pick and Roll:

In general, Shaq played the Pick and Roll the same way that Roy Hibbert did. He either sagged back to the paint or switched onto the PnR ball handler. Overall, when he switched on the PnR, Smith/Pippen went 1-5 FG (1 3P made) against Shaq with 1 other 3 pt made where both Shaq and his teammate left the PnR Ballhandler. None of the ballhandlers blew by Shaq, preferring to take the open long jumper since Shaq was standing near the FT line. Only once did Shaq try to trap the PnR ballhandler, but 2 passes later, the Blazers scored a layup. His PnR D wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either. I would gladly give Steve Smith a 22 foot open long jumper if I was the Lakers.


How the Blazers Defended Shaq:

As you can tell by the numbers above, the Blazers literally doubled Shaq everytime he touched it. The only times he didn't get doubled was when he made a quick move on Sabonis that didn't allow the Blazers the time to double him. Once the pass went in, the Blazers immediately went to double Shaq. They clearly made their priority to stop Shaq at all costs. Most of the doubles either came from Smith, Sheed or Pippen. The Blazers even doubled from the Lakers 3 point shooters and sometimes Kobe. One possession, Pippen doubled down off of Kobe, and Shaq hit Kobe for the open 3. I've never seen a defense give a man this much attention before. I've watched MJ, Kareem, Hakeem play, but none of them ever faced a comparable amount of defenders that Shaq did. In the 1st quarter, Shaq drew 2 quick fouls on Sabonis, then Grant came in and drew 2 fouls. So the Blazers were forced to use young Jermaine O'Neal to guard Shaq some.


How the Blazers Defended Kobe:

In the first half of the 1st and 3rd quarter, the Blazers used Damon Stoudamire to guard Kobe. Stoudamire is listed at 5' 10, 170 lbs. A man that is 8 inches shorter, and 30-40 lbs lighter was guarding Kobe for ~1 whole quarter. No offense, but the Raptors would have never dared to have Damon Stoudamire guarding MJ for a quarter. Kobe made a few plays on him and had a few assists from the doubles, but the lack of respect shows what the Blazers thought of Kobe. For the other 3 quarters of time, Smith/Wells guarded Kobe some, but Pippen guarded Kobe for around ~2 quarters worth of basketball. Pippen did a decent job but Kobe more than held his own. When Stoudamire guarded Kobe, they sent doubles on postup situations. When Pippen/Smith guarded him, they doubled when he drove to the basket.


Shaq's defense:

You can clearly tell that the Blazers had a strategy to minimize Shaq's amazing defensive impact. It was simple: Illega defense and 3 point line. They camped their big men at the 3 point line. Shaq would sag down a bit but due to the archaic NBA rules, Shaq wasn't allowed to go past the FT line. This allowed the Blazers free reign to the paint. That's why Shaq only contested 7 shots in the game. The Blazers would post up iso on the weakside and Shaq wouldn't be allowed to help on time due to the rues. The strategy worked somewhat with Sabonis because Sabonis could shoot the ball. But when Grant/Jermaine O'Neal came in the game, the Blazers played the same strategy despite the fact that both of them couldn't shoot. Shaq still had to respect them due to the rules. The Blazers centers stuck in the perimeter rarely posting up or challenging Shaq on the dribble.

Sheed dominated AC Green/Horry in that game. He was so talented that he had his way with them in the post. Its startling to see Rasheed playing in the post, not the 3 point line. In the 2nd half the Lakers starting sending some doubles to him. Shaq doubled him a few times. One time Sabonis cut to the basket, but Sheed missed the pass. Another time Sheed hit Sabonis who made the long 2 point jumper. Shaq didn't guard Sheed until the end of the 4th quarter when Grant was in the game for a fouled out Sabonis. Sheed missed one shot, and drew a foul vs Shaq

Kobe's defense:

Crazy to see a version of Kobe that is playing good D and focused on that side of the ball. You can see a huge difference between 00 and 13 Kobe. 00 Kobe didn't help out much, but he also didn't play 1 man zone either. Kobe's man D was really good. He was adept at applying pressure to the ballhandler when he crossed halfcourt. He had 3 deflections in the 1st half of the game. The Blazers strategy was to post up him up. 2000 Kobe was smaller and weaker compared to older Kobe. Bonzi Wells had like 2 postups where he manhandled Kobe so the Lakers didn't Kobe on him again. Steve Smith focused mostly on posting up Kobe. Kobe did a job of shutting down those postups.



Overall Impression:

Shaq: You could tell that Blazers came into game 7 with the mindset that Shaq wasn't going to beat them. Shaq wasn't aggressive though its hard to be when you got 2 guys up in your face when you get the ball. Shaq's passing was solid and he found a few cutters and open jumpshots. Shaq's defense got so much respect that the Blazers gameplanned to minimize his defensive impact. The Blazers were scared to even postup or attack Shaq with the ball. Some would say that Shaq had a bad game 7, but I disagree. His impact was evident all game. No center in history could have done what 00 Shaq was doing

Craziest stat: The Blazers only tried to postup Shaq 1 time all game.

Kobe: Kobe was still green but he did have a positive impact. His athleticism allowed him to play better Defense and drive to the basket more than old Kobe. 2000 Kobe couldn't carry a team, but he was a great robin. I didn't see much selfishness or jacking up contested fadeaways from Kobe either.

Lakers supporting cast: The Lakers cast was awful. It was an amazing carry job by Shaq (and lesser extent Kobe and Phil) to lead that team to 67 wins. Both Harper and AC Green were too old to contribute. Horry couldn't play defense. Glen Rice didn't have much an impact in the game. Shaq was carrying a cast similar to 09 LeBron's in terms of talent.


In the next few paragraphs, I'll explain a few plays that show off Shaq and Kobe's impact in the game.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8loTCIiCiXE[/youtube]


Shaq:

5:40- A play that shows Shaqs impact. Shaq is in the post. AC Green's man sags down to the post even before Green has a shot at throwing it into Shaq. As a result, Green gets a wide open jumper (which he missed) courtesy of the attention Shaq received.

14:06- Shaq gets the ball in the post, Stoudamire and Pippen come down to triple team Shaq. He recognizes it quickly and immediately passes to an open Fisher who makes an easy 15 foot jumper

14:25- An example of a typical PnR vs Shaq. Shaq sags to the FT line allowing Smith to take the jumper. Because of Shaq's length, he is able to contest the shot

15:05- Shaq recognizes the double and hits Horry on a cut to the basket. Horry dunks it.

24:05- An example of the offense the Blazers played. Notice how Jermaine O'Neal is far beyond his shooting range. Due to illegal defense, Shaq has to respect that. The Blazers have the ball at the top of the key, but Shaq cant double Sheed on the other side of the court due to the rules. Once Sheed gets the ball, its too late for Shaq to come and make an impact on Sheed's easy layup

26:19- Kobe throws it to Shaq in the post. Pippen leaves Kobe to double Shaq, Shaq passes it to Kobe who hits the 3 pointer

Kobe:

3:10- Kobe drives on the smaller Stoudamire and draws a double team. Kobe hits Harper in the baseline for the easy jumper

31:00- Kobe's active D bothers Wells. Kobe pocks the ball out of Wells hands when he tries to post Kobe.

1:13:45- Kobe shows off his athleticism. The Blazers player drives to the basket but Kobe comes from the weakside and has a monster block.

Boss post. I bow to your excellent work. As a Shaq fan I have always considered the 2000 WCF to be the crowning achievement in Shaq's career. The first few games saw typical playoff Shaq dominance against a team that specifcally put together to beat him. We also get to see a team pull out every stop in an effort to defeat peak Shaq with increasing desperation. From hack a Shaq to double him 98 percent of the time. And it almost worked. The tallest team on record at the time. 4 bigs with all star talent on that team. Insane defensive effort the last 2-3 games from the Blazers. Hats off to them, down 1-3 at one point, they went out like gangsters.

The other thing this illustrates is how once the great centers started to fade stopping Shaq was seen as a whole team effort. Not just the starting centers job. This sorta blows the whole Shaq only won/ played against this scrub and that srcub during his peak out of the water.

[Shaqsquatch]

Kobe dominated down the stretch of that game. Kobe out rebounded Shaq and out scored him also. Shaq was lucky Kobe was there to save him from another choke job performance which has hampered Shaq up to that point in his career.

I have to disagree with the TS who claims Shaq is doing something in this game no other Center is capable of doing. The Laker interior defence in this game and for the bulk of this series was getting torched by a guy that was like the 6th or 7th best PF in the NBA that year and "MDE" Shaq could do little if anything about it. This was the culmination of a series that the Lakers overall underwhelmed and were fortunate to escape the victors.

Moreso than Duncan in Game 7 of the 2005 Finals (at least cut him some slack given he was facing the defending champs and one of the greatest defensive teams ever) and Kobe in '10 Finals (facing the bulk of the '08 Celt title team) I personally can't think of a more underwhelming performance by a superstar than won with his team with their backs against the wall facing elimination.

Maybe you should go back and read the OPs post. And then watch the video he provides. How is Shaq going to get rebounds when he is surrounded by the opposition on offense and he is forced to hang out at the free throw line on defense? He also addresses directly why Shaq could do little affect that" 6th or 7th best pf in the NBA" torching the Lakers. BTW I don't ever remember Sheed being only the 6th or 7th best pf in the NBA before he got old.

[Durins Baynes]

A remark like "Sheed was the 6th or 7th best PF" is not only untrue, but also an admission of an agenda to distort Sheed's value. It's like me saying "Hakeem wasn't that great in the 94 finals, playing the NBA's 4th or 5th best center". Even if it's true, it is silly to phrase it like that, since in both cases the guys ahead of Sheed/Ewing were all awesome.

[The Infamous1]

How many guys have led their teams in PTS/RBS/AST in a game 7?

[semi-sentient]

I didn't count looseball fouls. Only fouls drawn on offense whether it was while dribbling, shooting, or offball. looseball fouls are random and don't require skill.

What is the point of counting fouls then?

Shaq picked up several on Sabonis, Grant, and O'Neal just standing in the post waiting for an entry pass. Why is that more important than Kobe getting fouled by Sheed (and others as this happened several times) who are coming over the back on a defensive rebound?

[semi-sentient]

In other words, you haven't watched the game so you'll allow someone else to form your opinion

No, in other words I agree with his opinion (that one anyway), and don't see the need to repeat arguments he's already raised simply because you trot out a one line post to the effect of "you're wrong".

Which particular opinion?

When you say that "Kobe was a beneficiary of Shaq drawing double teams on every play, while bad defenders like Damon guarded Kobe" it makes me think that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

You don't even have to watch the whole game. Just watch the 1st half and you'll see how wrong you are.

Kobe scored 13 points in the 1st half, and the only points that you can credit Shaq for is the open 3-pointer where Pippen left Kobe to double Shaq on an entry pass. His other points came from hitting long contested jumpers or off of cuts to the basket (inbounds play to start the 2nd, dunk late in the half off pass from Shaw with Shaq on the bench). You're also forgetting that Smith and Pippen guarded Kobe more than Stoudemire throughout the game and completing ignoring the fact that he saw his fair share of double/triple teams.

All 6 of Sabonis fouls came against Shaq including 4 in the 4th quarter.

This is inaccurate. Sabonis picked up his 3rd foul late in the 1st half contesting a shot after Shaq got an offensive rebound.

[The Infamous1]

For some odd reason that I can't really put my finger on, the defensive attention/Double team argument never is used In Kobe/Gasol threads by many of the same people who use it for Kobe/Shaq debates

[Durins Baynes]

Not true. I talk about how much having Gasol helped Kobe all the time... and vice versa of course.

[MacGill]

Great post Colts18!! I wish more posters would take your approach here!

Shaq + Kobe needed each other to get the job done, this cannot be disputed.

I remember posting the full games for the 95 finals and asking posters to rebut what actually happened because like this people want to believe what they want to believe. And very quickly this becomes fact to them regardless.

At the end of the day, all it takes is to put up the actual game (since we have it) and call it a day.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

A remark like "Sheed was the 6th or 7th best PF" is not only untrue, but also an admission of an agenda to distort Sheed's value. It's like me saying "Hakeem wasn't that great in the 94 finals, playing the NBA's 4th or 5th best center".

Actually it isn't at all. I quite frankly don't see the parallel between Ewing who was a HOF Franchise calibre Center for more than a decade and in one season was the best C in the league to a guy that never once proved to be any sort of clear cut leader either emotionally or talent wise and was at best a fringe top 5 PF and never better.. TD, Karl, KG, Cwebb were flat out better. Dirk had about equalled or surpassed him in his second year offensively.

Sheed was about Vin Baker or Coleman that years equal offensively and this is the guy that ran amok vs. a peak Shaq led team over 7 games and dominated the paint?

[colts18]

This is inaccurate. Sabonis picked up his 3rd foul late in the 1st half contesting a shot after Shaq got an offensive rebound.

Good catch. That was a mistake on my part. I recorded Sabonis as the main defender on Shaq for 4 4th quarter fouls, but forgot to record that the help defender picked up that foul. I'll have to fix that. Thanks.

What is the point of counting fouls then?

Shaq picked up several on Sabonis, Grant, and O'Neal just standing in the post waiting for an entry pass. Why is that more important than Kobe getting fouled by Sheed (and others as this happened several times) who are coming over the back on a defensive rebound?

I was focusing mostly on offense so I wasn't counting over the back and looseball fouls. I was under the impression that the NBA didn't count those in fouls drawn. I'll have to check NBA.com to see if they record those for fouls drawn.

To be fair to Shaq, Shaq might be the only guy who consistently gets those offball fouls (and sometimes Offensive foul on him) for posting up.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

Maybe you should go back and read the OPs post. And then watch the video he provides. [b]How is Shaq going to get rebounds when he is surrounded by the opposition on offense and he is forced to hang out at the free throw line on defense? He also addresses directly why Shaq could do little affect that" 6th or 7th best pf in the NBA" torching the Lakers.[/b] BTW I don't ever remember Sheed being only the 6th or 7th best pf in the NBA before he got old.

Well hey you and others on RealGM have claimed and insisted no other Center was on peak Shaq's level as a player or impact wise? But yet this is a problem he has no answer for?

The bolded part certainly would've never been a problem for either peak Russell or Olajuwon whose impacts are supposedly inferior to peak Shaq according to RealGM. They were both capable of effectively shutting down a guy like Rasheed man 2 man in addition to being able to sprint back to be a rim protector without their teams suffering any letdown defensively.

You could watch the entire'' 93 WCSF between Hou and Seattle where Olajuwon does this vs. a much superior PF in Shawn Kemp to Rasheed for almost the entire series and making him a non-factor offensively as he struggled mightily. Meanwhile Sheed has 3 games of 29pts or better vs. LA.

Shaq's teams suffer defensively when he's forced to play away from the basket...as he doesn't offer much if anything in that regard, now part of that is his physique and that's not really his fault he's not built like Russell/Hakeem, but there's also a unwillingness in his career to affect what's going on defensively outside the painted area.

[semi-sentient]

Shaq's teams suffer defensively when he's forced to play away from the basket...

That's not necessarily true. In this particular game Shaq had minimal impact defensively because Sabonis was drawing him out of the paint (he wasn't contesting Sabonis nor was he providing much help defense), but the Blazers were not exactly taking full advantage by scoring efficiently or getting to the line. Wallace is the only one who had a great game for the Blazers while everyone else was kept in check, so you have to give credit to the Lakers team defense for that. I thought they did a fantastic job despite Shaq not being in the paint to help out on post-ups or box out for rebounds.

[Rasho_libre]

This version of Kobe's defence was truly a marvel.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Great work tracking those stats and your statements about the Lakers strategy is spot on. Throughout the series, they tried to take Shaq away from the basket with Sabonis shooting outside shots, sometimes 3s. That's been a common and effective way to try to neutralize a shot blocker's impact. As I mentioned in another thread on this subject, Don Nelson's Warriors did that with Tom Tolbert at center when they upset David Robinson's Spurs in '91.

As for defense, they were doubling Shaq on the catch right from the start of the series. In fact, they assigned Pippen to Ron Harper for most of the series for the purpose of being able to double Shaq on the catch. Though Sheed, who was guarding Green, another non-threat offensively doubled Shaq a fair amount as well. What made Sabonis effective in this strategy is his size, which at about 7'3", 320+, he was the one player in the league who could match Shaq's size, so he was able to push him enough to keep him from getting deep position as often. This put him in a range where he'd often have to take a couple of dribbles to make his move, but with Pippen doubling him on the Shaq, he often couldn't do that.

Here are some examples from the 1st quarter of game 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y3GGuQYfwQ#t=3m28s Shaq's first touch and Sheed doubles him before he can put the ball on the floor while Pippen is pretty much just watching Shaq as well. Shaq finds Harper for a 3 that he makes with nobody even paying attention to him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y3GGuQYfwQ#t=4m30s This time, Shaq gets good position and makes a nice move to beat the help as Pippen and Sheed were both late arriving there, but he scores with 3 men in the paint focused on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y3GGuQYfwQ#t=5m44s Sheed ignores Green again and doubles Shaq on the catch, and Shaq finds Green cutting to the basket (he draws a foul)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y3GGuQYfwQ#t=8m23s Pippen daring Harper to shoot and taking the entry pass away by doubling Shaq without the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyt48XFslGA#t=9m09s Pippen again doubles Shaq right away and fores him baseline for a contested shot that he misses.

That's just the 1st quarter, but as you can see, it wasn't just game 7 where Portland took that approach. This is why the Lakers lack of 3 point shooting as well as starting 2 players who weren't scoring or shooting threats was a real flaw. Considering they did contain Shaq, it's impressive his averages were 26/12/4/2, 54 FG%/55 TS%. That's a great series for most players.

By the way, this Blazer defense is completely forgotten, but they were a hell of a defensive team. They did a great job limiting KG in the 1st round and Malone in the WCSF.

A good game to look at for Shaq is his game 1 of the finals. One of the best games I've seen him play. He was just toying with the double teams and had a huge 4th quarter. Game was still close entering the 4th, iirc, but Shaq scored 12 points himself and pretty much had a hand in every basket the Lakers scored either with an assist or a hockey assist except maybe 1 or 2 until he was taken out with the lead then 17 and 3 minutes left. He looked like he could have had a 50/20 game. With 43 points and 19 rebounds to that point, he hit another shot and was fouled, but they didn't give him the continuation and he was taken out of the game.

Just by virtue of the fact he had slightly sub-prime Kobe, you can discount the "bad support cast" stuff.

Agreed, they're clearly not a bad cast. Although, "slightly sub prime" isn't really accurate, imo. I have him as the 9th best player this season due to his defense and individual ability, but he was still learning how to incorporate his individual talent into the team concept which he wouldn't really do until around the 2001 playoffs. I'd say this version of Kobe was a solid tier below prime '03-'09 Kobe since he wasn't a first tier superstar/MVP caliber player yet.

History has proven 2 mega stars and a bunch of meh role players win.

Eh, not really, most teams are more balanced than the Lakers were. Of course, that's partially because of how great the Laker duo was, but most contending teams

I'm not going to cut Shaq slack for his otherwise meh support cast (which wasn't that bad anyway- Horry and Fox are holistically good role players, as was 25 year old Fisher, and Rice was a decent enough player still), when he has Kobe freaking Bryant on his team.

I agree with about half of this. He had a few good role players like Horry and Harper who defended, passed well and played intelligently, and to a lesser extent Brian Shaw who was also a solid defender, a big guard who could handle the ball and pass(which Phil always liked) and he had great chemistry with Shaq.

But Fisher was not a good role player in 2000. He was a solid defender when he was younger, but he didn't even shoot 35% for the season and was then the Lakers 4th guard in the playoffs. He was a complete non-factor. He was much better in 2001 when he returned from the injury late in 2001. He had apparently worked on his shooting when he was injured and it showed.

Fox wasn't much of a contributor to the 2000 team. Phil mentioned Fox had a weird mental block around this time that would cause him to just completely lose it once he made a mistake, which he got over after he apparently spoke up at a team meeting. He was a solid role player when he started for the '01 and '02 teams, though.

As for Rice, he wasn't a bad player. I'd say a pretty average small forward by that point. The problem with Rice was that he never fit in the triangle, and complained about his role, much like Gary Payton in 2004. That can be the worst, when a former star is declining fast, but just can't come to terms with it. As a New Yorker and a Knick fan, I saw the same thing when we got Rice the next season. We had Sprewell and Houston on the perimeter who were both all-stars and obviously better than Rice, yet Rice continued to complain about coming off the bench.

As for Rice's game, he was still a decent scorer. He was no longer one of the league's absolute best pure shooters after the '99 elbow surgery, and merely had a solid 3 point season at 1.1 3PM, 36.7 3P%. Rice still had a good post game, though when they went to it on occasion. He wasn't a very good ball-handler and as a result, wasn't great at creating his own shot off the dribble. The one exception was when Rice would get the ball in the pinch post and made a strong move to the basket. But he wasn't that good of a scorer as evidenced by his 12/4/2, 41% postseason, and even in his prime he was a one-dimensional player. Never was much of a playmaker, though I'd say he was a decent passer, never rebounded and he was never much of a defender. However, that was the other problem. Rice had become a liability defensively at times and Phil benched him late in games a number of times during the season and playoffs because of this. Remember the finals when Phil benched Rice late in game 3 after Jalen Rose was torching him and Glen's wife went on a rant about how she thought Phil was trying to sabotage Glen because he was still upset they didn't get Scottie Pippen instead? It really wasn't a good season for him. The definition of expendable since they didn't even consider offering him a contract after the season when he became a free agent and continued winning titles the next 2 years.

But the thing about Rice only have a good, not great 3 point shooting season is that he was the only Laker who was a legitimately good 3 point shooter so you expect more prolific 3 point shooting to make up for it. Other than Rice, no other Laker shot better than 32.6% or averaged more than 0.7 3PM, and the team was 5th worst in the league with a 32.9 3P%. That lack of shooters as well as usually having 2 players on the court who weren't shooting or scoring threats allowed Portland to play this type of defense on Shaq.

I do think you're overstating 2000 Kobe a bit, though. There have been a number of championship teams since the 90's with comparable or better second options, and all of these teams had more offensive talent such as better 3rd guys and better shooters. For example, the 90's Bulls, '08 Celtics, '95 Rockets, '12 Heat and '09/'10 Lakers all had second options who were at least a similar caliber player, or in some cases, better. And then there's a team like the '05 Spurs. 2000 Kobe was a better player than '05 Manu, but Manu arguably had the better playoff run. Kobe averaged 21/5/4, 44 FG%, 47 eFG%, 52 TS% while Manu averaged 21/6/4, 51 FG%, 58 eFG% and 65 TS%.

I don't doubt btw that Shaq was awesome this game, far moreso than Kobe, but to claim he had a bad support cast in 2000 (or 2001) is going way too far.

Agreed, except I think Kobe had the better game 7 vs Portland, but Shaq's 4th quarter was better, imo, though they were both really good in the 4th.

And back to his team. Again, it was obviously wasn't a bad cast, nobody has won a title with a bad cast. An example of a bad cast is 2003 T-Mac. But the Lakers did have some real flaws, they weren't a stacked team and they weren't the most talented team in the league.

I remember thinking this Laker team would win about 55 games, and while I often think people make mistakes when a team exceeds their expectations and assumes the only reason they were better than previously thought is the star and overrate them(2991 Derrick Rise), I think that the Lakers having such a great regular season is largely due to Shaq's dominance. As Phil Jackson said "we won 67 games on Shaq's back." The 67-15 record and 8.6 point differential is especially impressive when you consider Kobe missed the first month of the season giving Shaq very little offensive help during that time, though Shaq was 12-3 without Kobe, and the Lakers were in their first year in the triangle. While it can be deceptive to look at a team without their star, I think this Laker team probably wins at least 30 fewer games without Shaq, especially with Kobe out for 16 games.

[semi-sentient]

Agreed, except I think Kobe had the better game 7 vs Portland, but Shaq's 4th quarter was better, imo, though they were both really good in the 4th.

This about sums up my thoughts on that game as it pertains to Kobe and Shaq. Kobe played better from start to finish but Shaq was definitely the man in that 4th quarter -- and it's a good thing too because he had the worst quarter I'd ever seen him play in the 3rd.

[Durins Baynes]

It is ridiculous to call prime Sheed "Vin Baker or Derrick Coleman" as you do FeSheng. He was a borderline franchise player in his prime, held back by his attitude a little, but not his talent. The gap between Sheed and guys like Webber was not large at all, certainly smaller than the gap between Ewing and the top 3 centers in the NBA in 1994 (Dream, D.Rob and Shaq). I'm not even sure I'd take him over Zo that year. It's certainly close. And who were these "6 PF's" better than Sheed in 2000?

[colts18]

That's not necessarily true. In this particular game Shaq had minimal impact defensively because Sabonis was drawing him out of the paint (he wasn't contesting Sabonis nor was he providing much help defense), but the Blazers were not exactly taking full advantage by scoring efficiently or getting to the line. Wallace is the only one who had a great game for the Blazers while everyone else was kept in check, so you have to give credit to the Lakers team defense for that. I thought they did a fantastic job despite Shaq not being in the paint to help out on post-ups or box out for rebounds.

What are your thoughts on Shaq's help (not PnR) defense from 01-04 in comparison to 00? Do you think he was similar in help defense and intimidation?

Moving Shaq away from the basket was the clear goal for all teams in 2000. Opponent Centers shot 1 3PA per game vs the Lakers, by far the most in the league. 2nd most was only 0.6 per attempt (Zo).

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fa ... 0/fga3/1-1

I think Shaq's strong suit on defense was his post defense. Some teams didn't even try to post up Shaq. He forces his opponents to shoot jumpers which is why his opponent centers have lower FG%

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWRFn3xKlBI[/youtube]

Go to 1:20 of that video. By my count, that was the only time any Blazer tried to postup Shaq. And Sabonis couldn't even move Shaq. Is there any other center that gets posted up just 1 time per game? Its like the equivalent of a PG who only allows 1 penetration per game. That guy would be highly regarded even if he has flaws in other aspects of his game.

[semi-sentient]

What are your thoughts on Shaq's help (not PnR) defense from 01-04 in comparison to 00? Do you think he was similar in help defense and intimidation?

I think his help defense slowly regressed but it was definitely at it's best in '00 from what I recall. I think it was mostly fine in '01 and '02 as well. It was pretty bad in '03 and '04 though (conditioning + age being the primary reason).

One thing I'd like to point out is that Shaq was respecting JO a little too much in the Blazers series, and the commentators mentioned it a few times throughout the series as Shaq was late when providing weak-side help. Part of it was obviously the illegal defense rules but part of it was also his reaction time. Not a huge deal, but just something that I recall seeing/hearing while rewatching Game 7.

Moving Shaq away from the basket was the clear goal for all teams in 2000. Opponent Centers shot 1 3PA per game vs the Lakers, by far the most in the league. 2nd most was only 0.6 per attempt (Zo).

Yeah, that was the strategy. Any time you have a big body like Shaq in the paint it deters penetration so you want to move him away from the basket as much as possible. Most teams can't really get away with it because they don't have bigs that can really stretch the floor, but the Blazers at least had Sabonis who had a respectable outside shot. Of course they also had O'Neal and Grant way out on the perimeter trying to pull Shaq out of the paint as well. The strategy wasn't all that effective considering the results though. The Lakers were too strong defensively as a team and still managed to stop the Blazers when they needed to. The Blazers got out to that big lead because they got hot from the outside, but once that well dried up in the 4th they couldn't get any easy shots with or without Shaq in the paint.

I think Shaq's strong suit on defense was his post defense. Some teams didn't even try to post up Shaq. He forces his opponents to shoot jumpers which is why his opponent centers have lower FG%.

Yeah I'd agree with that. Shaq was practically immovable, so the only way to beat him was to hit a shot from the outside or try to beat him off the dribble/pump fake (like this play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... pk1M#t=580).

[Gregoire]

Good job, but the stats IMO have some little bias. I remember the thread about Hakeem vs Shaq in 95 Finals compilation from PO and when I try to check it on video - some things was misinterpreted in favor of Shaq (fatal9 knows what I talk about). In these thread I think there are similar bias. Soon I try to chek it too.
I trust the OP when he did great job about Kareem vs Walton ect (he was extremely objective), but when Shaq included... Not so much. Anymay, good try.