Pack 2014 FA

[chuckleslove]

I'm a BPA guy in the draft but I will never complain if 2 of our first 3 or 4 picks are invested in big guys on the OL and DL because they are just so valuable. I always want us to pick up at least one OL and one DL pretty early if the value is right.

[Ron Swanson]

I'd (again) invest in the offensive line early.

But where though?

Center and offensive tackle, the caveat being there are worthy selections available. It's a strong OT draft and there are a couple interior linemen that look like possibilities late in the 1st, just like there usually is every season.

Yeah, as always we should go BPA, but this looks to be another stacked OT draft. You have 2 guys that are probably going to go top 10 in Matthews and Lewan, and a whole lot of talent that may get overlooked and fall to the end of the 1st round as a result. I actually think we re-sign Finley, as I think he's more valuable to this offense than most people think. My draft wish list would probably be:

1st: OT
2nd: S
3rd: WR or TE
4th: DT/NT
5th: ILB or G
6th: QB

[Bucksfans1and2]

I'd (again) invest in the offensive line early.

But where though?

Center and offensive tackle, the caveat being there are worthy selections available. It's a strong OT draft and there are a couple interior linemen that look like possibilities late in the 1st, just like there usually is every season.

There are so many bodies at OT though, and you only keep three active. The three B's seem likely to own those spots. If Jake Matthews or Taylor Lewan are starring us in the face at that point, I could get down, but so far nobody else has looked elite.

[Ron Swanson]

But where though?

Center and offensive tackle, the caveat being there are worthy selections available. It's a strong OT draft and there are a couple interior linemen that look like possibilities late in the 1st, just like there usually is every season.

There are so many bodies at OT though, and you only keep three active. The three B's seem likely to own those spots. If Jake Matthews or Taylor Lewan are starring us in the face at that point, I could get down, but so far nobody else has looked elite.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014OT.php

^Good list of what kind of tackle prospects we can expect to be available. Lot of size and potential. We're not resigning Newhouse, so if we slide Barclay over to guard, then that opens up a spot. I think we can find a franchise T in the late first round with a lot of the talent that's going to slip through the cracks just based on how many teams will draft for need, or the skill positions. Lot of depth there this year.

[Bucksfans1and2]

Center and offensive tackle, the caveat being there are worthy selections available. It's a strong OT draft and there are a couple interior linemen that look like possibilities late in the 1st, just like there usually is every season.

There are so many bodies at OT though, and you only keep three active. The three B's seem likely to own those spots. If Jake Matthews or Taylor Lewan are starring us in the face at that point, I could get down, but so far nobody else has looked elite.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014OT.php

^Good list of what kind of tackle prospects we can expect to be available. Lot of size and potential. We're not resigning Newhouse, so if we slide Barclay over to guard, then that opens up a spot. I think we can find a franchise T in the late first round with a lot of the talent that's going to slip through the cracks just based on how many teams will draft for need, or the skill positions. Lot of depth there this year.

Why are we moving Barclay to Guard?

Kouandjio, Hurst, and Richardson have all looked downright bad at times. I don't think any of them look like Franchise Tackles. Richardson is a guy I actually compared to Newhouse in my report on him.

[eagle13]

We move Barclay to G b/c he was projected better there by the Pack until injuries at OT scrubbed that.
Barclay basically is right side reserve G&T and 3rd string C.
Tretter & EDS compete for starting C and loser backs all 3 interior spots
IF Sherrod actually comes off PUP this season & plays strong he'd be reserve LT and I wouldn't draft an OL.
IF Sherrod doesn't then I draft LT in 3rd.
Newhouse is not resigned - period.

LT - Bakhtiari / Sherrod (or 3rd rdr)
LG - Sitton / EDS / Barclay
OC - Tretter / EDS / Barclay
RG - Lang / Barclay / EDS
RT - Bulaga / Barclay

[Ron Swanson]

There are so many bodies at OT though, and you only keep three active. The three B's seem likely to own those spots. If Jake Matthews or Taylor Lewan are starring us in the face at that point, I could get down, but so far nobody else has looked elite.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014OT.php

^Good list of what kind of tackle prospects we can expect to be available. Lot of size and potential. We're not resigning Newhouse, so if we slide Barclay over to guard, then that opens up a spot. I think we can find a franchise T in the late first round with a lot of the talent that's going to slip through the cracks just based on how many teams will draft for need, or the skill positions. Lot of depth there this year.

Why are we moving Barclay to Guard?

Kouandjio, Hurst, and Richardson have all looked downright bad at times. I don't think any of them look like Franchise Tackles. Richardson is a guy I actually compared to Newhouse in my report on him.

They don't have to, I'm just throwing it out there as an option depending on what happens with EDS, GVR and Tretter. I'm fine with him as either our backup tackle OR guard so long as he isn't starting, as he's been very subpar in pass protection. It all depends on Bahktiari's progression of course, but I think it's foolish to count on him and an all-of-a-sudden injury prone Bulaga to man the tackle spots if you're staring down one of either Kouandijo, Hurst (who just handled Clowney), or Richardson with your late 1st round pick.

Obviously it's a fluid situation, and the rankings are going to change between now and April. But unless Sherrod comes back and steps up big, our O-line desperately needs an infusion of talent, size, and durability. Unless some absolute stud TE, WR, or S falls to us, it would be dumb to pass on any of the top tackles sure to be available imo.

[Bucksfans1and2]

We move Barclay to G b/c he was projected better there by the Pack until injuries at OT scrubbed that.
Barclay basically is right side reserve G&T and 3rd string C.
Tretter & EDS compete for starting C and loser backs all 3 interior spots
IF Sherrod actually comes off PUP this season & plays strong he'd be reserve LT and I wouldn't draft an OL.
IF Sherrod doesn't then I draft LT in 3rd.
Newhouse is not resigned - period.

LT - Bakhtiari / Sherrod (or 3rd rdr)
LG - Sitton / EDS / Barclay
OC - Tretter / EDS / Barclay
RG - Lang / Barclay / EDS
RT - Bulaga / Barclay

That's how I would play it as well. I don't see where the need for a high round OT comes from

[Bucksfans1and2]

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014OT.php

^Good list of what kind of tackle prospects we can expect to be available. Lot of size and potential. We're not resigning Newhouse, so if we slide Barclay over to guard, then that opens up a spot. I think we can find a franchise T in the late first round with a lot of the talent that's going to slip through the cracks just based on how many teams will draft for need, or the skill positions. Lot of depth there this year.

Why are we moving Barclay to Guard?

Kouandjio, Hurst, and Richardson have all looked downright bad at times. I don't think any of them look like Franchise Tackles. Richardson is a guy I actually compared to Newhouse in my report on him.

They don't have to, I'm just throwing it out there as an option depending on what happens with EDS, GVR and Tretter. I'm fine with him as either our backup tackle OR guard so long as he isn't starting, as he's been very subpar in pass protection. It all depends on Bahktiari's progression of course, but I think it's foolish to count on him and an all-of-a-sudden injury prone Bulaga to man the tackle spots if you're staring down one of either Kouandijo, Hurst (who just handled Clowney), or Richardson with your late 1st round pick.

Obviously it's a fluid situation, and the rankings are going to change between now and April. But unless Sherrod comes back and steps up big, our O-line desperately needs an infusion of talent, size, and durability. Unless some absolute stud TE, WR, or S falls to us, it would be dumb to pass on any of the top tackles sure to be available imo.

Hurst didn't handle Clowney. Clowney lived in the backfield all day against UNC. Just because he didn't get a sack, doesn't mean Hurst won the day. Not even close.

Richardson just got handled by Easley and Florida, and looked horrendous.

Those aren't elite prospects. Not even close. Cyrus might be elite on the right side, I suppose, but none of these guys are elite pass protectors. I'm not even sure Lewan is.

[Newz]

Right now I would rank our needs safety at the top of our 'needs' list.

I will be curious to see how Bulaga and Sherrod look when they come back and I really like our guards. I could definitely see us needing an upgrade at center... but it sounds like they really liked Tretter before they got hurt. I love drafting 'big guys' (OL/DL) early in the draft. But getting Bulaga, Sherrod and Tretter back should be like drafting three guys who bring in competition in the first place.

Assuming we retain Raji, I still think we may need a little youth at DE/DT. Jones and Daniels are young, plus we'll be getting Worthy back... so I guess that isn't that huge of a need.

It would be very nice to get another legitimate stud in the front seven of the defense. Outside of safety I'd say that is our biggest 'need' is to get someone to compliment Matthews with. Jones could still be that guy as he has talent, he just needs time to develop. (Look at the jump a guy like Watt made between years one and two)

Jones and Nelson are also both getting up around 30, so eventually WR is going to be a need. Who knows if Finley will be back next year or not... so TE may quickly become as big or a bigger need than safety.

[Ron Swanson]

Why are we moving Barclay to Guard?

Kouandjio, Hurst, and Richardson have all looked downright bad at times. I don't think any of them look like Franchise Tackles. Richardson is a guy I actually compared to Newhouse in my report on him.

They don't have to, I'm just throwing it out there as an option depending on what happens with EDS, GVR and Tretter. I'm fine with him as either our backup tackle OR guard so long as he isn't starting, as he's been very subpar in pass protection. It all depends on Bahktiari's progression of course, but I think it's foolish to count on him and an all-of-a-sudden injury prone Bulaga to man the tackle spots if you're staring down one of either Kouandijo, Hurst (who just handled Clowney), or Richardson with your late 1st round pick.

Obviously it's a fluid situation, and the rankings are going to change between now and April. But unless Sherrod comes back and steps up big, our O-line desperately needs an infusion of talent, size, and durability. Unless some absolute stud TE, WR, or S falls to us, it would be dumb to pass on any of the top tackles sure to be available imo.

Hurst didn't handle Clowney. Clowney lived in the backfield all day against UNC. Just because he didn't get a sack, doesn't mean Hurst won the day. Not even close.

Richardson just got handled by Easley and Florida, and looked horrendous.

Those aren't elite prospects. Not even close.

Settle down. Hurst, other than the missed hold where he basically tackled him, handled Clowney as well as i've seen any tackle do, albeit with a lot of help and misdirection from screens. No one is going to "shut him down" one on one, so if that's what you're judging in your criteria, I'm sure that Jake Matthews wouldn't look like an "elite" prospect either. Keep in mind, you're also judging these guys pro projections based on 4 games into the college season.

Like I said before, these rankings are most likely going to be drastically different come combine time. Nobody said anything about them being "elite" prospects either, but I sure as hell think that any one of them has the potential to be better than Bahktiari or Barclay. As it stands, we have a 4th round rookie, an undrafted 2nd year guy, and two injury prone guys manning our tackle spots for the near future. I don't think it's crazy at all to suggest that if we find ourselves picking in the late 1st, and there isn't a highly regarded safety or TE (depending on Finley sit.) on our board, that we would pick the best available OT.

[eagle13]

Finley is likely to have a very good year but we can't afford all the big pay days of Finley Raji & Shields. Jones will be looking for more. even Neal & Jolly could get significant increases.

Picking from the bottom of the round I'm guessing we are more likely to get a shot at a top TE than a top DL or CB. So we resign raji & shields and let Finley go - sadly. Tramon goes and we draft a CB 2nd, I believe House or Hyde should be tried at S.

So far Nick Perry = Hawk. No variety in pass rush, piss poor in coverage, assignment sure but not special against the run. Neal is better. Offseason find a 43 Defense team and get a 4th for Perry to play DE.

[MickeyDavis]

McGinn's analysis of the OL and linebackers

All-pro three-technique DT Geno Atkins lined up for 68 plays. He has wreaked havoc in recent years, but Sunday he was invisible: no sacks, no hurries and no tackles. Of the 35 times that he lined up over RG T.J. Lang, Atkins was double-teamed just six times. Of his 29 chances over LG Josh Sitton, he was doubled 11 times. Lang set the tone, manhandling the smaller Atkins on the first play and James Starks charged for 13. Lang outmuscled Atkins, and didn't have any trouble with his quickness. It was easily Lang's best game of the season and possibly the best of his five-year career. The mauling Sitton was very good as well, also not allowing a pressure or a "bad" run. One reason the Packers averaged a whopping 6.1 yards per rush (182 yards) was the ability of Evan Dietrich-Smith to eliminate penetration one week after Washington NT Barry Cofield got the best of him. He did allow one sack on a bull rush by NT Domata Peko, but the first sack wasn't his fault because Starks made a bad decision cutting blitzing LB Taylor Mays and knocked Dietr-ich-Smith off his block. This was Bakhtiari's poorest game. He allowed five pressures (one sack, three knockdowns, one hurry) whereas the four other starters combined for just 2½. He also had 2½ of the five "bad" runs, including getting beat inside by Johnson on the failed fourth-and-1 that ruptured into the winning TD. Yet, Bakhtiari's speed afoot has been a key to the resurgent zone run game. The Packers are starting to run in unison down the line, and as the fastest of the five his impact is significant. DE Carlos Dunlap is a brutal matchup for any right tackle. Don Barclay has played better and needs to play better, but one sack and one "bad" run wasn't an awful day.

Clay Matthews was magnificent before bowing out with yet another hamstring injury. In 26 snaps he had 3½ pressure whereas Nick Perry (48), Mike Neal (34) and Andy Mulumba (six) had none. Matthews was unblocked and airborne off the back side forcing BenJarvus Green-Ellis, a Bill Belichick favorite because he never fumbled, to fumble. He terrorized prideful LT Andrew Whitworth with his talent and youth, and cleaned up Davon House's blown sack with a strip of cornered Andy Dalton on his final snap. Perry and Neal weren't good enough. Perry can't turn the corner and isn't strong enough to threaten muscular right tackles such as Smith. Neal shows occasional violence getting off blocks and more athletic flashes than Perry, but for now he's learning the linebacker business. Brad Jones triggered early all day. He attacked, trusted his instincts, slipped the hulking Whitworth once or twice and flew to the football. He ripped a fumble from TE Jermaine Gresham and hopped on Dalton's fumble. His coverage was so-so. A.J. Hawk drove ball carriers backwards or dead in their tracks four or five times. Pick or not, the Bengals got the matchup they wanted (Giovani Bernard on Hawk) and the result was a swing pass for 31.

[Bucksfans1and2]

They don't have to, I'm just throwing it out there as an option depending on what happens with EDS, GVR and Tretter. I'm fine with him as either our backup tackle OR guard so long as he isn't starting, as he's been very subpar in pass protection. It all depends on Bahktiari's progression of course, but I think it's foolish to count on him and an all-of-a-sudden injury prone Bulaga to man the tackle spots if you're staring down one of either Kouandijo, Hurst (who just handled Clowney), or Richardson with your late 1st round pick.

Obviously it's a fluid situation, and the rankings are going to change between now and April. But unless Sherrod comes back and steps up big, our O-line desperately needs an infusion of talent, size, and durability. Unless some absolute stud TE, WR, or S falls to us, it would be dumb to pass on any of the top tackles sure to be available imo.

Hurst didn't handle Clowney. Clowney lived in the backfield all day against UNC. Just because he didn't get a sack, doesn't mean Hurst won the day. Not even close.

Richardson just got handled by Easley and Florida, and looked horrendous.

Those aren't elite prospects. Not even close.

Settle down. Hurst, other than the missed hold where he basically tackled him, handled Clowney as well as i've seen any tackle do, albeit with a lot of help and misdirection from screens. No one is going to "shut him down" one on one, so if that's what you're judging in your criteria, I'm sure that Jake Matthews wouldn't look like an "elite" prospect either. Keep in mind, you're also judging these guys pro projections based on 4 games into the college season.

Like I said before, these rankings are most likely going to be drastically different come combine time. Nobody said anything about them being "elite" prospects either, but I sure as hell think that any one of them has the potential to be better than Bahktiari or Barclay. As it stands, we have a 4th round rookie, an undrafted 2nd year guy, and two injury prone guys manning our tackle spots for the near future. I don't think it's crazy at all to suggest that if we find ourselves picking in the late 1st, and there isn't a highly regarded safety or TE (depending on Finley sit.) on our board, that we would pick the best available OT.

I'm not judging Hurst just on the three games he's had this year. I watched him all last year too when there was some thought that he might come out. Hurst has not been great at all so far. He's been good, but he's been far from elite. Even in the other game against Middle Tennessee, he wasn't shutting guys out. Hurst is overrated, because he's a four year starter. He was in the middle of a bunch of lists at the end of last year and then didn't declare. So he slid up the lists by default when in reality he's the same caliber of player he was when he was a good but not great prospect. The guy is not a future franchise Left Tackle and I'm comfortable saying that in September. There are very real athletic limitations there.

And no, I don't think there are any guys that are comfortably going to come in as rookies and be an upgrade over Barclay and Bulaga. Maybe Matthews, but he's going to be a top 5 pick.

[Ron Swanson]

I'm not judging Hurst just on the three games he's had this year. I watched him all last year too when there was some thought that he might come out. Hurst has not been great at all so far. He's been good, but he's been far from elite. Even in the other game against Middle Tennessee, he wasn't shutting guys out. Hurst is overrated, because he's a four year starter. He was in the middle of a bunch of lists at the end of last year and then didn't declare. So he slid up the lists by default when in reality he's the same caliber of player he was when he was a good but not great prospect. The guy is not a future franchise Left Tackle and I'm comfortable saying that in September. There are very real athletic limitations there.

You are harping way too much on one player and not addressing the issue. We always pick BPA in the draft, so if there isn't a S or TE that we have a 1st round grade attached to, then the next logical position of need, based on injury/durability concerns, and overall talent, is the O-line. It doesn't matter if it's James Hurst or a guy like Cameron Erving, who could potentially shoot up draft boards given his athletic ability.

And no, I don't think there are any guys that are comfortably going to come in as rookies and be an upgrade over Barclay and Bulaga. Maybe Matthews, but he's going to be a top 5 pick.

Bulaga will hopefully be fully healthy next year, but he's fast becoming an injury liability, so sue me if I'd feel more comfortable having a capable back up and an eventual starter to groom for the long term.

So there isn't anyone in the coming draft that would be an immediate upgrade over an undrafted guy and a 4th round undersized LT, save for "maybe" a guy that could have been the consensus #1 pick a year ago? Wow, it's ok to have an opinion, just know that the majority of NFL scouts would disagree with you.

[Bucksfans1and2]

I'm not judging Hurst just on the three games he's had this year. I watched him all last year too when there was some thought that he might come out. Hurst has not been great at all so far. He's been good, but he's been far from elite. Even in the other game against Middle Tennessee, he wasn't shutting guys out. Hurst is overrated, because he's a four year starter. He was in the middle of a bunch of lists at the end of last year and then didn't declare. So he slid up the lists by default when in reality he's the same caliber of player he was when he was a good but not great prospect. The guy is not a future franchise Left Tackle and I'm comfortable saying that in September. There are very real athletic limitations there.

You are harping way too much on one player and not addressing the issue. We always pick BPA in the draft, so if there isn't a S or TE that we have a 1st round grade attached to, then the next logical position of need, based on injury/durability concerns, and overall talent, is the O-line. It doesn't matter if it's James Hurst or a guy like Cameron Erving, who could potentially shoot up draft boards given his athletic ability.

And no, I don't think there are any guys that are comfortably going to come in as rookies and be an upgrade over Barclay and Bulaga. Maybe Matthews, but he's going to be a top 5 pick.

Bulaga will hopefully be fully healthy next year, but he's fast becoming an injury liability, so sue me if I'd feel more comfortable having a capable back up and an eventual starter to groom for the long term.

So there isn't anyone in the coming draft that would be an immediate upgrade over an undrafted guy and a 4th round undersized LT, save for "maybe" a guy that could have been the consensus #1 pick a year ago? Wow, it's ok to have an opinion, just know that the majority of NFL scouts would disagree with you.

We never pick BPA. We're a value team in the first round and always have been. Bakhtiari and Bulaga are locks to start at Tackle next season. Both Newhouse and Barclay are adequate #3 Tackles. Spending significant draft capital to improve a backup position is insane.

Calling Bakhtiari a fourth round undersized Left Tackle is one of the reasons I'm taking issue with your stance. Bakhtiari was a 4th rounder because every team that runs a power blocking scheme didn't want him. That hugely depreciated his overall value. It let us get a prospect that carries much higher value in our system much later than we normally would have been able to. He's a perfect system fit for us. That's smart drafting and it's one of the reasons we've had so much success.

Rookie Tackles don't exactly tend to dominate. Bakhtiari has been the best rookie offensive lineman in the league this year. I see no reason why I should expect the best rookie offensive lineman so far, in his second season to be surpassed by many incoming rookies. If I was looking for a replacement for Barclay at RT, I think Kouandjio would grade out about evenly, he's looked better in recent weeks, and I think he's a better overall talent, but Barclay is a better fit and is more polished at this point.

[eagle13]

didn't know where else to post this - not worth own thread

JS article on Nick Perry
http://www.packersnews.com/article/2013 ... utside-LB-

Basically imconclusive but discuss whether Perry will cut it as OLB or should move to inside rusher or ILB?
I never considered either but ILB is interesting although he is never going to be good in coverage and he just doesn't have enough pass rush to be effective inside

I think his lone position is 43 DE and we should trade him next off season for a 4th.

[eagle13]

Well Perry had his best game yet. Great news! Though I am a doubter I want Perry to succeed. His improvement did come AFTER being benched in favor of Neal.