Dwight: I'm An Intelligent Basketball Player

[captlopez0012]

you sir, obviously have a giant man crush on dwight howard. youre quick to attack anybody who doesnt praise him as a god. but i noticed you asked me to give you facts on why d12 wasnt an offensive player on that last post but never responded when i did. i know you saw it. you troll d12s posts like its your job. quit trying to use stats or whatever suits you to paint dwight in the best light. dwight howard is the best center in the league purely based on his defense. but the gap is much narrower than it was 2 years ago. there are a few guys right on his tail and another down year and we may have to dethrone d12 as "best center in the game". and maybe you missed orlandos run to the finals, but it wasnt all howard. dwight played well but hedo turkoglu was the best player on the magic for that run. rashard lewis was lights out as well. and rafer alston played great up until they pulled him for jameer in the finals. this was the epitome of a "team run" to the finals. those magic teams were definitely more loaded than any grizzlies team of recent memory. and keep in mind, the magic play in the east. grizzlies play in the west. thall skews the w-l percentage. and that magic team doesnt sniff the finals in the west. as for running his mouth about kareem, dwight doesnt have the cache to be dissing any all time greats. he is universally regarded as a problem child and needs to work on repairing his image.

Sorry but your massive jumble of words and its dreadful lack of punctuation and capitalization make your responses too difficult to read.

its pretty straight forward and very easy to read. i dont capitalize anything but this isnt english class. the only punctuation i omit is apostrophes in well-known contractions (i separate sentences and thoughts with periods and commas). if i need to tell you that "dont" means "do not" than you should get off forums. i also spell my words correctly. only a moron would be unable to read my posts. but what an obvious copout to some more well laid facts that show your ineptitude at understanding the game of basketball.

[mjd58]

Howard spoke the truth and showed some restraint by taking the high road.

Kareem appears to be bitter that Dwight rejected his assistance, ignoring the fact that Howard was already working with a superior tutor. That becomes apparent with his narcissistic praise of Noah for seeking him out.

The most obvious and laughable part is when he suggests Howard doesn't know how to help his team win and offers up Marc Gasol as a preferable alternative.
Here's the truth; In the five years they have been in the league together:
Marc Gasol's teams are 207-187 with one appearance in the conference finals.
Dwight Howard's teams are 252-142 with two appearances in the conference finals and one trip to the NBA Finals (and that includes the disastrous season in LA).

So on what is Kareem basing his conclusion? He certainly can't argue that Howard has had a better supporting cast. Nor can he say that Gasol was more central to Memphis' success than was Howard in Orlando.

I know piling on Howard is popular at the moment, especially among the LA contingent, but under scrutiny much of Kareem's criticisms ring hollow.
Moreover, it seems Kareem is just as petty and vindictve as has been rumored all these years.

lol, so first 4 years of dwight doesn't count? Awful logic.. Marc has been in this league only 5 years, while dwight - 9.

You completely missed the point. You have to take it in the context in which it was given.
Jabbar offered up the comparison and obviously you can only compare the years they've been in the league together to reach the conclusion Jabbar reached.

But even if you want to compare their first 5 years respectively, Howard lead his team to the NBA Finals by year 5 while Marc Gasol has not. Does that not fly in the face of Kareem's statement of Howard not helping his team win?

The numbers simply don't support Jabbar's conclusion.

I think your attack against Jabbar as being "petty and vindictive" based on this criticism of Dwight was completely uncalled for. That said, Dwight is obviously better than Marc Gasol.

A simple psychological analysis of Jabbar will reveal why he likes Marc Gasol more than Dwight: they're alike. Dwight and Jabbar, conversely, are not alike. It's that simple. Birds of a feather flock together.

Dwights personality rubs Jabbar in the wrong way, and maybe Jabbar's personality isn't as appealing to Dwight as Hakeem Olajuwan's. No need to mention anything further.

If Jabbar's criticism has any degree of merit, it's in sensing that something about Dwight Howards personality is holding him back from achieving greater success. Maybe Dwight - if he knew what was good for him - should open himself up to people who aren't like him. Familiarity tends to breed stagnation. This isn't a jab against the greats he has so far worked with him, but Jabbar is more of an intellectual than Olajuwan and Ewing. He is more serious; he is more analytical. He is more phlegmatic.

Dwight should take a page out of Lebron's book and learn to tone down his bubbliness during games. He should also not complain so often, often in the vince carteresque whiny way that he is prone to doing it.

As for Dwights Defense that his Defensive player of the year awards prove he is "very" intelligent. I disagree. Dwights freakishly absurd athleticism accounts in large part for his success. Of course, you have to be intelligent to effectively use your athleticism, and Dwight is intelligent. But "very" intelligent is an exaggeration. if Dwight were very intelligent, he would recognize how his bubbliness affects his ability to maintain a certain competitive edge over his opponents. This is a general intelligence, not explicitly related to basketball know-how; it's the type of intelligence that MJ, Kobe and Lebron are able to muster. It's an intelligence that recognizes how to best focus the mind.

So, I think that would be my main criticism of Dwight Howard: lack of focus, lack of engagement; too bubbly; too flippant.

The Big man might be physically very imposing, but he is child-like in many ways.

[GlennQuagmire]

Kareem needs to realize that no NBA center is going to come begging for his help...if Kareem wants to help someone, then Kareem needs to initiate and follow through on it.

This is incorrect.
Joakim Noah seeked out for Kareem's tutelage last summer. They got in some serious training in together and it showed how much it helped his game this past season. There's actually reports he worked out with Kareem this past summer as well.

As for Dwight I think Hakeem was the right choice for his size and skill.
Only problem is he'll probably never even get to Ralph Sampson or Kelvin Cato good LMAO!!!

[truthiness]

And again Dwight doesn't get it. When Kareem says "his IQ isn't up to speed for him to be a dominate player", Kareem wasn't talking defensively as Dwight thinks. The mental aspect is critical on both sides of the ball but in Dwight's case he has one side full and the other on less than half tank.

Offensively he doesn't get it, he's still a horrid passer out of double teams. I know what Kareem is getting at too bad Dwight doesn't. And for him to even mention that Kareem only mentioned this is because he left the Lakers is stupid. Saying it was "emotional" was incredibly stupid. When has Kareem ever been emotional about anything ?

Are you in EVERY Dwight thread ?

And why didn't Kareem say **** about Dwight 1 year ago, when the Lakers got him ?
Either Kareem was asskissing the Lakers and their players last season by not saying this about Dwight when the Lakers wanted to trade for him, or he's eating some really sour grapes now. Either way, Kareem looks bad.

[BallerTalk]

I think your attack against Jabbar as being "petty and vindictive" based on this criticism of Dwight was completely uncalled for. That said, Dwight is obviously better than Marc Gasol.

It was not intended as an attack but rather a commentary on Kareem's own notorious character history.
If you are familiar then you know that Kareem has been called everything from aloof and off-putting to small and, yes, petty. Some have even gone so far as to call his personality abrasive and caustic.
Although I can't honestly say I've ever read where he has been called vindictive, that was my own descriptive, I maintain it fits.

If you aren't familiar then just ask yourself why a player as legendary and decorated as Kareem is so universally unpopular in NBA circles. Heck, even the Lakers didn't acquiesce to giving him a statue until after he made a big stink about it.

One should always consider the source and knowing Jabbar's history can't help but put his criticisms in a different light.

[DEEP3CL]

Are you in EVERY Dwight thread ?

Hummm seems you are to, for the record it was an ex Laker making a comment so it was relevant to Laker fan. You're trying to be some vigilante on keeping Laker fans out of a thread ?

Wake up son it ain't happen'in

And why didn't Kareem say **** about Dwight 1 year ago, when the Lakers got him ?
Either Kareem was asskissing the Lakers and their players last season by not saying this about Dwight when the Lakers wanted to trade for him, or he's eating some really sour grapes now. Either way, Kareem looks bad.

What an idiotic comment, he doesn't look bad in no terms. Kareem even said after he was traded to LA that Dwight has to continue to improve on his offense and was open to working with him if he wanted it. What the hell are you talking about ?

[DEEP3CL]

Kareem needs to realize that no NBA center is going to come begging for his help...if Kareem wants to help someone, then Kareem needs to initiate and follow through on it.

This is incorrect.
Joakim Noah seeked out for Kareem's tutelage last summer. They got in some serious training in together and it showed how much it helped his game this past season. There's actually reports he worked out with Kareem this past summer as well.

As for Dwight I think Hakeem was the right choice for his size and skill.
Only problem is he'll probably never even get to Ralph Sampson or Kelvin Cato good LMAO!!!

I agree totally with this. Jokim was a beast last season. If not for the foot issues towards the end of the season ( which I chalked up to the added work load of missing Rose ), he would've had a stellar playoffs. You could also see better fluidity in his offense and he didn't look so robotic as he had before. And here's the kicker that's like flying over 90% of the posters in this thread....Jokim is actually a very intelligent person and he exudes a serious demeanor which Kareem can relate to.

[captlopez0012]

If you aren't familiar then just ask yourself why a player as legendary and decorated as Kareem is so universally unpopular in NBA circles. Heck, even the Lakers didn't acquiesce to giving him a statue until after he made a big stink about it.

what relevance does this have to anything? dwight howard is less popular than kareem. hes easily the most hated player in the league right now. and the difference between him and other widely hated guys like kobe and lebron. people hate kobe and lebron b/c theyre great. people hate dwight b/c he acts like a chump.

and the rule of thumb is, current players do not diss the all time greats. its called respect for your elders. thats why lebron takes every subtle shot jordan takes at him w/ a smile. even shaq (who dissed most the guys he played against), never said a bad word about past players. its a losing battle. you dont do it. and you should really watch what you say when you already have as poor a public image as dwight does. but its just another example of dwights lack of understanding and maturity.

[truthiness]

Are you in EVERY Dwight thread ?

Hummm seems you are to, for the record it was an ex Laker making a comment so it was relevant to Laker fan. You're trying to be some vigilante on keeping Laker fans out of a thread ?

Wake up son it ain't happen'in

And why didn't Kareem say **** about Dwight 1 year ago, when the Lakers got him ?
Either Kareem was asskissing the Lakers and their players last season by not saying this about Dwight when the Lakers wanted to trade for him, or he's eating some really sour grapes now. Either way, Kareem looks bad.

What an idiotic comment, he doesn't look bad in no terms. Kareem even said after he was traded to LA that Dwight has to continue to improve on his offense and was open to working with him if he wanted it. What the hell are you talking about ?

ITT: nobody calling out Kareem for being stupid himself.

Kareem, the brain is not a muscle.

[logswithmoss]

Kareem needs to think a little more before he speaks...The brain is an organ, not a muscle. Furthermore, if the brain were a muscle, it wouldn't be the only one between Dwight's ears.

It's kind of hard to consider Kareem's criticism of Dwight's intelligence to be well-deserved; Kareem is pretty stupid himself.

[DEEP3CL]

Are you in EVERY Dwight thread ?

Hummm seems you are to, for the record it was an ex Laker making a comment so it was relevant to Laker fan. You're trying to be some vigilante on keeping Laker fans out of a thread ?

Wake up son it ain't happen'in

And why didn't Kareem say **** about Dwight 1 year ago, when the Lakers got him ?
Either Kareem was asskissing the Lakers and their players last season by not saying this about Dwight when the Lakers wanted to trade for him, or he's eating some really sour grapes now. Either way, Kareem looks bad.

What an idiotic comment, he doesn't look bad in no terms. Kareem even said after he was traded to LA that Dwight has to continue to improve on his offense and was open to working with him if he wanted it. What the hell are you talking about ?

ITT: nobody calling out Kareem for being stupid himself.

Kareem, the brain is not a muscle.

We all know the brain is an organ. Pretty sure Jabbar knows it too, was probably saying it in jest.

[MaseInYourFace]

I'm a millionaire

[BallerTalk]

If you aren't familiar then just ask yourself why a player as legendary and decorated as Kareem is so universally unpopular in NBA circles. Heck, even the Lakers didn't acquiesce to giving him a statue until after he made a big stink about it.

what relevance does this have to anything? dwight howard is less popular than kareem. hes easily the most hated player in the league right now. and the difference between him and other widely hated guys like kobe and lebron. people hate kobe and lebron b/c theyre great. people hate dwight b/c he acts like a chump.

and the rule of thumb is, current players do not diss the all time greats. its called respect for your elders. thats why lebron takes every subtle shot jordan takes at him w/ a smile. even shaq (who dissed most the guys he played against), never said a bad word about past players. its a losing battle. you dont do it. and you should really watch what you say when you already have as poor a public image as dwight does. but its just another example of dwights lack of understanding and maturity.

You would do well to find out the situation before commenting. That statement was a response to a post regarding my earlier comment about Jabbar.

As far as the hating goes, ultimately it is at least irrational if not asinine for any fan to "hate" a player they do not know personally. Apparently you fit firmly in that category.
Think about it. What you are saying is that you hate an individual you have never met and who has no true bearing on your life simply because he does not behave in a manner to your liking.
Then you audaciously speak of maturity.
Sweet irony.

[captlopez0012]

If you aren't familiar then just ask yourself why a player as legendary and decorated as Kareem is so universally unpopular in NBA circles. Heck, even the Lakers didn't acquiesce to giving him a statue until after he made a big stink about it.

what relevance does this have to anything? dwight howard is less popular than kareem. hes easily the most hated player in the league right now. and the difference between him and other widely hated guys like kobe and lebron. people hate kobe and lebron b/c theyre great. people hate dwight b/c he acts like a chump.

and the rule of thumb is, current players do not diss the all time greats. its called respect for your elders. thats why lebron takes every subtle shot jordan takes at him w/ a smile. even shaq (who dissed most the guys he played against), never said a bad word about past players. its a losing battle. you dont do it. and you should really watch what you say when you already have as poor a public image as dwight does. but its just another example of dwights lack of understanding and maturity.

You would do well to find out the situation before commenting. That statement was a response to a post regarding my earlier comment about Jabbar.

As far as the hating goes, ultimately it is at least irrational if not asinine for any fan to "hate" a player they do not know personally. Apparently you fit firmly in that category.
Think about it. What you are saying is that you hate an individual you have never met and who has no true bearing on your life simply because he does not behave in a manner to your liking.
Then you audaciously speak of maturity.
Sweet irony.

you avoid the point more than anyone else on here. when you are shown innacuracies, you counter with irrelevant arguments (or dont counter at all/claim you cant understand the post). if you hadnt noticed, everybody questions the majority of your posts. that is a sign that your understanding of the game of basketball is lacking.

as far as hating a player. thats what sports is. you love and hate players. not on a personal level, but as players. its every sports fans right to love or hate whatever players they want. its perfectly normal. how else do you differentiate your favorite players?

as to the original points that you like to avoid. dwight howard is not a high basketball iq player. hes not a high iq person overall. aside from his freakish athletic ability, nothing in his life on or off the court suggest "high iq". he just played a full season with 2 of the highest basketball iqs of this generation (kobe/nash), i guarantee they will not vouch for his bball iq. he also has a severe lack of maturity. again on and off the court. this is evidenced by his willingness to constantly get in verbal wars with past nba players. current players should know it is a losing battle to criticize an all time great.

[inquisitive]

Kareem needs to realize that no NBA center is going to come begging for his help...if Kareem wants to help someone, then Kareem needs to initiate and follow through on it.

This is incorrect.
Joakim Noah seeked out for Kareem's tutelage last summer. They got in some serious training in together and it showed how much it helped his game this past season. There's actually reports he worked out with Kareem this past summer as well.

As for Dwight I think Hakeem was the right choice for his size and skill.
Only problem is he'll probably never even get to Ralph Sampson or Kelvin Cato good LMAO!!!

No..Kareem seeked him out.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2012 ... rstitial=1

[truthiness]

ITT: nobody calling out Kareem for being stupid himself.

Kareem, the brain is not a muscle.

We all know the brain is an organ. Pretty sure Jabbar knows it too, was probably saying it in jest.

How can you be so sure ?
Just because he played for the Lakers ?
Why don't you give the same benefit of the doubt to Howard ?

What he's doing is like calling someone an idiot while committing a huge grammatical error:
stupid and laughable.

BTW, you calling me "son" in a previous post in an attempt to establish some authority or something similar was equally laughable. Ok, boy ?

[mjd58]

It was not intended as an attack but rather a commentary on Kareem's own notorious character history.
If you are familiar then you know that Kareem has been called everything from aloof and off-putting to small and, yes, petty. Some have even gone so far as to call his personality abrasive and caustic.
Although I can't honestly say I've ever read where he has been called vindictive, that was my own descriptive, I maintain it fits.

If you aren't familiar then just ask yourself why a player as legendary and decorated as Kareem is so universally unpopular in NBA circles. Heck, even the Lakers didn't acquiesce to giving him a statue until after he made a big stink about it.

One should always consider the source and knowing Jabbar's history can't help but put his criticisms in a different light.

Speaking as a psychologist, I am usually reticent to pass such harsh judgement on other peoples characters - especially when they're based on hear-say and not first hand experience.

Kareem is known for being notoriously shy. He's not a natural people person; he's quiet, awkward, and anxious when around too many people. He's seem to have gotten over this somewhat (with all the media appearances) but let me just point out the compensations and misconstructions that can emerge from this problem. To people who are naturally sociable, which is to say, to people who experience high levels of emotion, the reasons for why people act the way they do usually goes unnoticed: they're too distracted by their emotions. So, I can totally see people getting a certain image of Kareem based upon these types of confused interactions.

Kareem, like all human beings, is vulnerable to pride-based reactions. No one wants to feel weak. So this reputation you claim Kareem has built for himself from some people might just be his pride-based way to compensate for his awkwardness. I just googled and found an article titled "Jabbar wishes he was more open with fans". Do you see? This is a critical blindspot in almost all human relations: a lack of understanding and patience with the other person. Kareem dealt with a social phobia; he shielded himself from having to experience those high-stress situations by building up a gruff and unapproachable exterior - ala, his reputation. But, if people were just a tad more wise, they would understand that Jabbar was struggling with himself as a person. Now, in his older age, and feeling more secure with who he is as a person, he feels regret. And for him to publicize this regret, to me, demonstrates a high level of maturity.

In any case, this thread is not about Kareem, but about Dwight Howard. I care not about who Kareem is as a person, because to this issue, it is irrelevant. To focus on him is to lose focus on what actually matters: the criticisms he made of Dwight Howards game.

For me, the criticism was warranted, but poorly defined. Dwights problem is an all around lack of maturity. His inability to keep his mouth shut last season, his whininess with referees, his laziness on offense. Dwight is an intelligent player i.e. he is able to follow rules and understand gameplans. His core problem is finding and maintaining an energy level that keeps him fully engaged at all times in the game. His bubbliness certainly detracts from the seriousness that that level of focus requires.

[DEEP3CL]

ITT: nobody calling out Kareem for being stupid himself.

Kareem, the brain is not a muscle.

We all know the brain is an organ. Pretty sure Jabbar knows it too, was probably saying it in jest.

How can you be so sure ?
Just because he played for the Lakers ?
Why don't you give the same benefit of the doubt to Howard ?

What he's doing is like calling someone an idiot while committing a huge grammatical error:
stupid and laughable.

BTW, you calling me "son" in a previous post in an attempt to establish some authority or something similar was equally laughable. Ok, boy ?

Lol....dude I don't care about weather or not Jabbar knows if a brain is a muscle or organ ! And the " son" reference was more of a vernacular thing, like how it's used in hip hop or on the streets. Glad you got a chuckle from it cause I didn't mean it like that.

[DEEP3CL]

If you aren't familiar then just ask yourself why a player as legendary and decorated as Kareem is so universally unpopular in NBA circles. Heck, even the Lakers didn't acquiesce to giving him a statue until after he made a big stink about it.

what relevance does this have to anything? dwight howard is less popular than kareem. hes easily the most hated player in the league right now. and the difference between him and other widely hated guys like kobe and lebron. people hate kobe and lebron b/c theyre great. people hate dwight b/c he acts like a chump.

and the rule of thumb is, current players do not diss the all time greats. its called respect for your elders. thats why lebron takes every subtle shot jordan takes at him w/ a smile. even shaq (who dissed most the guys he played against), never said a bad word about past players. its a losing battle. you dont do it. and you should really watch what you say when you already have as poor a public image as dwight does. but its just another example of dwights lack of understanding and maturity.

I didn't even say what you put in that quote box. I have no idea who said that but it wasn't me.

[BallerTalk]

you avoid the point more than anyone else on here. when you are shown innacuracies, you counter with irrelevant arguments (or dont counter at all/claim you cant understand the post). if you hadnt noticed, everybody questions the majority of your posts. that is a sign that your understanding of the game of basketball is lacking.

as far as hating a player. thats what sports is. you love and hate players. not on a personal level, but as players. its every sports fans right to love or hate whatever players they want. its perfectly normal. how else do you differentiate your favorite players?

as to the original points that you like to avoid. dwight howard is not a high basketball iq player. aside from his freakish athletic ability, nothing in his life on or off the court suggest "high iq". he just played a full season with 2 of the highest basketball iqs of this generation (kobe/nash), i guarantee they will not vouch for his bball iq. he also has a severe lack of maturity. again on and off the court. this is evidenced by his willingness to constantly get in verbal wars with past nba players. current players should know it is a losing battle to criticize an all time great.

I don't know if you have reading difficulty or perhaps it it's your comprehension that is lacking but I believe I've made my point very clear. The first thing I wrote was "Howard spoke the truth...", meaning I agree with what he said.
Sorry if you are unable to follow.
Also, your disagreement with the points I make does not make them any less accurate. I have yet to see you respond with anything resembling facts.

As I said, I know that dumping on Howard is popular for a certain segment of fans and you apparently find comfort in that crowd. However, I gave you the numbers with regard to Kareem's comments and they speak for themselves.
Much the same as when you said Howard, " has no offensive game whatsoever" and I countered with the fact that the guy has a career average of 18.3 with multiple years of over 20 ppg.

I find it interesting that you say fans hate players "not on a personal level, but as players" because many of the attacks here on Howard have been intensely personal.
Saying someone is "not a high iq person overall" and "nothing in his life on or off the court suggest "high iq", certainly qualifies as personal.