Mottola, Murphy OUT -- all other coaches safe for now

[s e n s i]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SNBarryDavis/status/387360846545833984[/tweet]

whaaaa? the most perplexing part is, why isn't walker packing his bags too?

i felt rivera did a bang-up job as 3B coach however (in really the lone dept where we can accurately judge his competence, sending/holding runners), glad he's staying

[dagger]

Not surprised about Murphy, Rivera staying a bit of a surprise, I thought he did a mediocre job at 3B but he is the only Latin coach, so maybe that's why he survived.

[s e n s i]

murph is retiring
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/387364830900129792[/tweet]

[dagger]

steve simmons ‏@simmonssteve 2m
Blue Jays, with just about worst startIng pitching in baseball, have fired their two batting coaches. #gofigure

[Garmfay]

AA is losing his mind, prob JPA wanted him fired to blame his hitting issues.
- Good hitters were the same
- Rasmus, Lind, Lawrie improved
- Pitching staff was terrible = Walker keeps his job

#FIREAA

[whysoserious]

What did Pete Walker do to retain his job? WTF, go get Arnsberg back or just move Hentgen in as he did a great job with the bullpen.

[s e n s i]

no thanks to armsburn, get pappy back in the fold instead

[MikeM]

When I see something like what happened with Bonifacio, how can it not be the coaches' fault? The guy posts a BB% of about 9 for the last 3 years, comes to Toronto and it goes down to like 4%. He's traded to KC and it immediately goes back to 9%.

Brett Lawrie rakes in Vegas, rakes in his rookie year straight out of the box and steadily declines ever since. Arencibia has been on a steady decline ever since his rookie year (even though no one can help him).

Aaron Hill moves to ARZ and immediately gets back to .900 OPS.

Lind and Rasmus just started coming back around this year. I suspect it was the help of Mottola. I think Murphy killed every hitter we've had except Jose and EE with his one style of hitting / disregard for OBP approach to hitting.

[Randle McMurphy]

Pete Walker certainly doesn't deserve to be scapegoated just because Josh Johnson was awful, Brandon Morrow got hurt, and RA Dickey didn't come as advertised. Nobody here is in any position to really judge the job these guys do, so there's no good reason to get angry about this particular decision.

However, I will say that one actual negative of keeping the same coaching staff is that it means the Jays likely won't be going back to their shifts from the Buttefield days (which did save them runs).

[Gibby]

Why was Mottola fired? Doesn't make much sense...

[BigLeagueChew]

Cito Gaston for hitting coach!

Kind of a strange move with Mottola but if they have someone better in mind go for it.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

steve simmons ‏@simmonssteve 2m
Blue Jays, with just about worst startIng pitching in baseball, have fired their two batting coaches. #gofigure

Steve Simmons, just about the worst columnist in sports, has tweeted something dumb. #gofigure

[whysoserious]

Pete Walker certainly doesn't deserve to be scapegoated just because Josh Johnson was awful, Brandon Morrow got hurt, and RA Dickey didn't come as advertised. Nobody here is in any position to really judge the job these guys do, so there's no good reason to get angry about this particular decision.

However, I will say that one actual negative of keeping the same coaching staff is that it means the Jays likely won't be going back to their shifts from the Buttefield days (which did save them runs).

Injuries certainly were a major factor in how we performed but did Walker help to improve any pitcher this past year? Did we see anything from the pitching staff that suggests the status quo is fine and it was all injuries?

It's not about saying Pete Walker was the reason, but for a team that wants to contend, sticking with the status quo after a horrible season and just praying that things are different next year doesn't really leave me with a ton of confidence next year will be any different.

[Randle McMurphy]

Injuries certainly were a major factor in how we performed but did Walker help to improve any pitcher this past year?

He may have. Neither of us know the answer to that question.

Did we see anything from the pitching staff that suggests the status quo is fine and it was all injuries?

I thought it was about poor performance from established veterans and injuries. Not sure what either of those things have to do with Pete Walker.

It's not about saying Pete Walker was the reason,

No, apparently it's just about scapegoating coaches for no good reason.

but for a team that wants to contend, sticking with the status quo after a horrible season and just praying that things are different next year doesn't really leave me with a ton of confidence next year will be any different.

So go and make player upgrades. Focus on improving the guys actually on the field playing the game. Crazy idea, I know.

[whysoserious]

Randle, I'm all for player upgrades too but coaches make a difference too. I mean look at the impact of Francona in Cleveland, is is that hard to imagine that upgrading over Pete Walker should not even be up for discussion. You suggest player upgrades, and that's a given. Why is debating an upgrade not an option for the coaching staff?

[Randle McMurphy]

Randle, I'm all for player upgrades too but coaches make a difference too. I mean look at the impact of Francona in Cleveland, is is that hard to imagine that upgrading over Pete Walker should not even be up for discussion. You suggest player upgrades, and that's a given. Why is debating an upgrade not an option for the coaching staff?

Because neither of us can speak to how good a coach Pete Walker is (or even make comments about how well he's done his job at all), making the entire discussion a completely pointless one.

For all anybody here knows, Pete Walker is a GOAT pitching coach in the making saddled by a bunch of underachieving scrubs.

[dagger]

The pitching coach who might have merited consideration here is Bob Stanley in Buffalo, who had to work with a real dog's breakfast because the Jays kept rotating guys in and out. A number of the relievers either improved to at least fringe ML calibre, like Wagner, Ortiz, Perez, Redmond, Weber, Jeffress. Stilson has a nice run after being promoted. The only thing he couldn't do was resurrect Ricky Romero and that might require more than mortal powers.

[Relentless88]

I agree with Randle, the pitching woes last season are on the players, not the coaches. It can't be Walker's fault that Johnson/Morrow were injured.

[whysoserious]

I agree with Randle, the pitching woes last season are on the players, not the coaches. It can't be Walker's fault that Johnson/Morrow were injured.

You could technically say that about every team then and it will never be the coaches fault. IMO, Walker should be gone. What I don't get is why some of you are shutting the door on it.

You can consider it scapegoating but that's the nature of the business. Things don't go well and someone will take the fall. That's the nature of the business. There's blame for this season to go around to everyone, including the coaching staff and AA. Does that mean everyone should be gone? No, but it should be up for debate.

Sometimes, a firing of a coach can make a difference. Is Walker the primary reason our pitching was bad? No, but did we see anything as observers from the outside that suggest he's even decent or should have faith in him. If there's someone better out there, should we not at least look at it as an option?

[wazabifuzz]

What about asking Robbie Alomar or even Joe Carter to be a hitting coach ?

It may or may not work out, but they know a thing or two about hitting