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Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1141 » by stevemcqueen1 » Wed Oct 2, 2013 11:45 am

Ruzious wrote:I think Sanders will eventually become a better defender than Asik, but Asik's physical strength gives him the advantage right now, imo. Sanders relies on his great shot-blocking ability for his D, while Asik is the better positional player. If Asik just played for blocks, he could get almost as many as Sanders.


Sanders really came into his own last season as a defender, and I think he surpassed Asik. Meanwhile, Asik took a step back as a defender IMO, playing starters minutes for the first time, and playing in an up and down system that doesn't really suit him. You're right in identifying them as very different players defensively. I agree Asik is much stronger and better at bodying up opposing bigs. But where I think Sanders outshines him is in his range and his ability to alter more shots in the lane.

I agree that Sanders's lack of strength is an issue, but I think the issue would be minor if the Bucks hadn't built their front court with a large flaw in it. You'd be perfectly fine with Sanders's lack of strength & lack of big body if you'd found a big goon that could start next to him at either C or PF. A Pekovic or something. Or maybe not even someone that good. But the Bucks have guys who are even skinnier and weaker next to Sanders in Henson and Ilyasova so now they've got a systemic issue.

But mitigating that flaw is the fact there aren't as many teams with powerful, offensive minded bigs capable of fully exploiting their weakness as there used to be. Unfortunately, most of those teams are in their division. They do have Detroit. And Cleveland if Bynum pans out. Chicago still has Boozer (though he's declining). And Indy is a load. And I guess Brooklyn has Brook Lopez. But other than that, there isn't a lot to fear in the East and even less in the West.

I'm not sure Asik could block and alter as many shots as Sanders even if he completely sold out for them because Sanders has genetic gifts that are crazy. His arm length is absurd, 7'6 wingspan and 9'4 standing reach. That's something you just can't replicate. Asik is a legit seven footer and Sanders still has 4 more inches of wingspan on him, plus he's a much springier and faster athlete. He's an Ibaka-like rim protector. When those kinds of players come with a brain, I think they are the most valuable defenders in the league now. They help shrink the court by covering lots of space, which has become more essential than having a powerful man defender on the blocks.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1142 » by stevemcqueen1 » Wed Oct 2, 2013 12:55 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I am relieved. I thought I was alone in wondering why there has been MUCH gloom since Okafor went down. Steve, I also think his absence can be offset by Wall's presence and improvement. And Beal. There are guys like Harrington and Ariza in contract years who need good years. Booker and Singleton and Seraphin are playing for there basketball future. Vesely got to be a bit of a rock star in FIBA play, and he got good reviews this summer. Maynor is a playmaker off the bench. Al Harrington is the S4 they lacked last year. Last, this by FAR is the best roster top - to - bottom Coach Wittman has ever had as an NBA head coach. I expect a good season.

I also believe Okafor will be fine before season's end.

As for any Asik trade IMO keep Nene and deal Okafor. Defense and rebounding are what would be acquired long term with Asik. That is what Okafor gives. Best case is a midseason deal Houston might do for cap relief. I like Emeka but getting younger and healthier with size in the frontcourt is the goal. Nene's highly skilled on offense. He prefers PF to preserve his body. Keep him and trade Okafor and or Seraphin to get Asik.


Yeah I think Wall can buoy the roster almost single handedly if he keeps playing like he did in March and April. During April we were often missing about 6 of our top 8 guys and we stayed competitive up until the last stretch where we tanked.

If we can count on Wall, Beal, Webster and Ariza, and get a healthy Nene for most of the time Okafor is out, we can win enough games to keep afloat. We'd be in a lot better situation than we were at the end of last season. And if we can play .500 ball this year, we can make the playoffs.

This is definitely a chance for Harrington, Seraphin, Vesely, Booker, GRIII, Maynor, or Porter to step up this year and give us a lift. Seraphin in particular, who should get the bulk of Okafor's minutes. It's year four and this is his chance.

I'm not super confident that stuff will happen. I do think Harrington will light a fire in the locker room and probably have one of the better years of his career as a shooter from playing with Wall. That's a relatively modest gain IMO. I also think Porter is too good not to come on eventually. And I also think that Maynor will be a nice little surprise. None of that adds up to Okafor early on, but it should help.

I don't really know what to expect from Ves or Seraphin. I'm not really expecting much, but I really hope they surprise us. They could give the team a huge boost. Like finding 20 dollars in your pants after doing laundry.

I agree a more natural Asik trade for us would be Okafor for him, but Okafor doesn't really have trade value while he's hurt. I think you're right that no deal could happen until the deadline when teams might be looking for cap relief.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1143 » by payitforward » Thu Oct 3, 2013 1:02 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Keep in mind that we owe Nene $13m a year for the next 3 years. And he can give you 25 minutes a game. When he's healthy. And he's aging. Trading him for a shorter term lower price player is a plus contract-wise.


Saving money just to save money isn't really progress though. The end goal is to get the best quality of player available with the dollars you spend on contracts.

Right, and that's my point. "A plus contract-wise" gives you $$ to spend on that best quality player....
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1144 » by pancakes3 » Mon Oct 7, 2013 2:20 am

I know that Asik is highly coveted but is there any way we can pry him away from Houston? Ariza+Vesely?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1145 » by dangermouse » Tue Oct 8, 2013 1:03 pm

pancakes3 wrote:I know that Asik is highly coveted but is there any way we can pry him away from Houston? Ariza+Vesely?


It'll take a lot more than that. Someone will pony up, too. Houston are, for the moment, bargaining with the upper hand in the deal. The closer we get to the trade deadline the less they would ask. If he holds out there till next off season he could probably be had for something like that.
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NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1146 » by Ruzious » Tue Oct 8, 2013 4:50 pm

dangermouse wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:I know that Asik is highly coveted but is there any way we can pry him away from Houston? Ariza+Vesely?


It'll take a lot more than that. Someone will pony up, too. Houston are, for the moment, bargaining with the upper hand in the deal. The closer we get to the trade deadline the less they would ask. If he holds out there till next off season he could probably be had for something like that.

I think it's the other way around - as far as baraining powuh. Asik's made it clear he doesn't think he and Howard are a good fit since both are pure centers. Houston has a shot at being a contender - if things break right for them, so it would serve them well to add a player or 2 who could fit better. But I concur that Ariza and Vesely is low-balling a bit too much.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1147 » by Dat2U » Tue Oct 8, 2013 5:03 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dangermouse wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:I know that Asik is highly coveted but is there any way we can pry him away from Houston? Ariza+Vesely?


It'll take a lot more than that. Someone will pony up, too. Houston are, for the moment, bargaining with the upper hand in the deal. The closer we get to the trade deadline the less they would ask. If he holds out there till next off season he could probably be had for something like that.

I think it's the other way around - as far as baraining powuh. Asik's made it clear he doesn't think he and Howard are a good fit since both are pure centers. Houston has a shot at being a contender - if things break right for them, so it would serve them well to add a player or 2 who could fit better. But I concur that Ariza and Vesely is low-balling a bit too much.


Also, remember that Morey signed Ariza to the contract he has now and while he wasn't terrible, his shot selection & accuracy was not at last year's level and he only lasted a season in Houston. Would Morey even consider bringing Ariza back?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1148 » by pancakes3 » Tue Oct 8, 2013 5:49 pm

If the numbers back it up, Morey would play his mother at SF.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1149 » by deneem4 » Tue Oct 8, 2013 6:04 pm

Nene for asik and Terrance jones before jones value go up
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1150 » by LyricalRico » Tue Oct 8, 2013 6:41 pm

deneem4 wrote:Nene for asik and Terrance jones before jones value go up


Can't see Houston saying yes, but I'd love it. Then Ariza+Booker and *gasp* Porter for Ilyasova? (At least that way Josh Childress could make the team! :D )

Asik/Vesely
Ilyasova/Jones
Webster/Chill
Beal/Rice
Wall/Maynor

Still leaves us in a decent financial situation next summer, and we acquire two young bigs without using our 2014 first. Like I said, HOU wouldn't do it, though.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1151 » by deneem4 » Tue Oct 8, 2013 6:51 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
deneem4 wrote:Nene for asik and Terrance jones before jones value go up


Can't see Houston saying yes, but I'd love it. Then Ariza+Booker and *gasp* Porter for Ilyasova? (At least that way Josh Childress could make the team! :D )

Asik/Vesely
Ilyasova/Jones
Webster/Chill
Beal/Rice
Wall/Maynor

Still leaves us in a decent financial situation next summer, and we acquire two young bigs without using our 2014 first. Like I said, HOU wouldn't do it, though.


If we can showcase a healthy nene they definitely would, that would make them an instant contender, nene is a top 10 pf healthy...and I don't think we'll need tht much to get ersan...maybe webster and booker or porter booker and a 2014 2nd rd or maybe 2, that way we can still have leverage with ariza and okafor by the deadline...

Wall/maynor
Beal/temple/rice
Ariza/webster /ves
Illyasova/seraphin
Asik/okafor

And when the deadline hit we can definitely move asik for a 2014 1st rd maybe ariza for a young player or some picks...but either way we can make playoffs and go into f/a with room for 1 big contract
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1152 » by deneem4 » Tue Oct 8, 2013 6:54 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
deneem4 wrote:Nene for asik and Terrance jones before jones value go up


Can't see Houston saying yes, but I'd love it. Then Ariza+Booker and *gasp* Porter for Ilyasova? (At least that way Josh Childress could make the team! :D )

Asik/Vesely
Ilyasova/Jones
Webster/Chill
Beal/Rice
Wall/Maynor

Still leaves us in a decent financial situation next summer, and we acquire two young bigs without using our 2014 first. Like I said, HOU wouldn't do it, though.


If we can showcase a healthy nene they definitely would, that would make them an instant contender, nene is a top 10 pf healthy...and I don't think we'll need tht much to get ersan...maybe webster and booker or porter booker and a 2014 2nd rd or maybe 2, that way we can still have leverage with ariza and okafor by the deadline...

Wall/maynor
Beal/temple/rice
Ariza/webster /ves
Illyasova/seraphin
Asik/okafor

And when the deadline hit we can definitely move asik for a 2014 1st rd maybe ariza for a young player or some picks...but either way we can make playoffs and go into f/a with room for 1 big contract
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1153 » by Jay81 » Wed Oct 9, 2013 5:39 pm

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1154 » by Dark Faze » Wed Oct 9, 2013 7:07 pm

deneem4 wrote:Nene for asik and Terrance jones before jones value go up


I'd do it for Asik straight up.

Then package a 2014 1st (unprotected) and Okafors expiring for Aldridge straight up.

Everyone wins imo.

A Nene/Dwight frontcourt is basically unstoppable offensively.

The Blazers should probably be tanking right now given the state of their club. They need to separate themselves from the LMA/Oden/Roy era completely. A fantastic tank year with CJM out. Come into the lottery with two 2014 picks and maybe a shot at Wiggins.

As for the wiz...Wall/Beal/Porter/LMA/Asik...speaks for itself. Pick up George Karl in the off-season and the team should be ECF good almost immediately.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1155 » by LyricalRico » Wed Oct 9, 2013 7:50 pm

^ Well, with Asik/LMA our pick wouldn't be worth much. Portland would essentially have traded Aldridge for a mid-late first (assuming we do the deal now or early in the season).
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1156 » by deneem4 » Wed Oct 9, 2013 8:38 pm

Thunder
Rockets
Clippers

Teams that can really use nene

He needs to go, he has no value to us if he cant play more than 25mins...especially with okafor out..
Asik beem discussed but do you gouys have anh idea trade packages where we can come out as a winner and still be competitive?
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1157 » by LyricalRico » Wed Oct 9, 2013 8:54 pm

deneem4 wrote:Thunder
Rockets
Clippers

Teams that can really use nene


Thunder definitely need Nene, but they don't seem inclined to add that kind of money to their payroll. We've already discussed Houston on the previous page.

LAC is an interesting destination because they would only really need him to play 25 mpg (assuming they didn't give up Deandre Jordan in the trade). But their roster doesn't seem to be a good fit when it comes to trading with Washington.

deneem4 wrote:He needs to go, he has no value to us if he cant play more than 25mins...especially with okafor out.


Irrespective of how the team does this year, Nene would have good value next summer IMO if he was coming off a year when he was mostly healthy and produced well, even if it was in relatively low minutes.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1158 » by nuposse04 » Wed Oct 9, 2013 9:26 pm

If Okafor is really out for the year and Boston wants to ensure the tank effort I'd see if they're willing to do Okafor for Humphries type swap. Kris only one season removed from being a decent big and does expire. He's still an upgrade over the status quot. But I'd only do it if we were sure Okafor would be gone the whole season. Maybe throw in a '16 future 1st (with some absurd protection) to get it done.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1159 » by deneem4 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:13 am

Nene
Singleton

For

Perkins
Perry jones
2014 1st rd(mavs); 2015 2nd rd
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1160 » by LyricalRico » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:10 pm

^ If Perkins deal was expiring, I'd do it. But the extra year gives me pause since he really brings nothing to the table.

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