nate33 wrote:hands11 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/08/opinion/obamas-options.html?ref=politics&_r=0
HE Republicans in the House of Representatives who declare that they may refuse to raise the debt limit threaten to do more than plunge the government into default. They are proposing a blatant violation of the 14th Amendment, which states that “the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law” is sacrosanct and “shall not be questioned.”
As the wording of the amendment evolved during the Congressional debate, the principle of the debt’s inviolability became a general proposition, applicable not just to the Civil War debt but to all future accrued debts of the United States. The Republican Senate leader, Benjamin F. Wade of Ohio, declared that by placing the debt “under the guardianship of the Constitution,” investors would be spared from being “subject to the varying majorities which may arise in Congress.”
Two years later, on the verge of the amendment’s ratification, its champions inside the Republican Party made their intentions absolutely clear, proclaiming in their 1868 party platform that “national honor requires the payment of the public indebtedness in the utmost good faith to all creditors at home and abroad,” and pronouncing any repudiation of the debt “a national crime.”
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And these are the people who claim to love the constitution more then the communist Dems.
I've been following the nitty gritty of politics a lot less lately, but haven't the Republicans submitted bills to raise the debt limit provided that Obamacare isn't funded along with it? I'm not saying that's right or wrong as a negotiating tactic, but it seems to me that it would at least satisfy the requirements of the 14th Amendment.
They can try whatever they want, as long as in the end, regardless of what anyone else does, they raise the debt limit. Not sure what a similar example of this would be because its so insane what they are doing there really isn't an equal comparison I can think of. We are talking the United State losing its place as the bed rock financial instrument of the world economy because congress choose to not do something that is purely procedural.
The world economy is pegged to our notes, TBills, etc. They are the most trusted monetary thing in the world. Not sure about world market, but they have broken millions of American full faith in our ability to pay our issued debts. In many's view, they are already brought this into doubt and are violation the constitution.
The fact we even have such a thing the way we do is stupid at this point as I understand it. The reason they changed things the way they are now was to make issuing bonds easier dating back to WW1. What is happening here is an abuse. After we get past this, they need to change how this is done.
History of the ceiling...
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/ ... iling.htmlGeithner and Goolsbee aren't worried about the United States' ability to pay its debts so much as its willingness to do so. Indeed, they're having nightmares not about the debt, but about the debt ceiling—a relic of an earlier budget era and a redundant mechanism for managing the nation's finances. Which raises the question: Why does the United States even have a debt ceiling in the first place?
So how did we end up with this system anyway? According to a thorough report from the Congressional Research Service, Congress used to authorize each and every one of the Treasury's debt sales. Then, in 1917, to ease financing for the United States' entry into World War I, it set an overall limit—the debt ceiling—and let Treasury issue as many Liberty Bonds as it needed to within that limit.
Now, budget wonks argue, the ceiling is no longer really necessary, given Congress' budgetary power and process—as well as the realities of the budget itself. "It used to help control the amount you could appropriate," explains Stan Collender, a partner at Qorvis and longtime budget watcher and expert. "But so much of the debt is mandatory now." He continues: "The truth is: You shouldn't have to raise the debt ceiling separately. The debt ceiling should be raised automatically when Congress agrees to a conference report on a budget resolution. That's how it's supposed to work. It is an anachronism."
