Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV

[WallTown02]

Debbie Downer alert!!!

Unfortunately, there is NO chance we trade Nene until EG is gone. He doesn't think that way. He thinks "If Nene can stay reasonably healthy this year on 25 minutes a game, we MIGHT be able to sneak into the playoffs and buy me a few more years."

[deneem4]

^ If Perkins deal was expiring, I'd do it. But the extra year gives me pause since he really brings nothing to the table.

I think he'll be ok until Okafor gets back, as well as a good bruiser next to seraphin or vesely, I think he is unfit on that thunder rostee next to surge...having him nxt to vesely running around will enable him to be more stationary and in the paint where he belongs...

The main attraction is another 1st rd pick, this draft suppose to be the best in yrs and 2 juggernauts have top picks (Miami has philly/chicago has Charlotte) we need to package to move up if we plan on actually drafting, if not I'm sure 2 1st rds sound very good to teams with unhappy superstars

perkins also becomes an expiring going into nxt season, hes also a vet with a ring and known for toughness and locker room leadership, I think some rebuilding teams would rent him out jus to guide they're younger bigs if we need to move him doing the off season or deadline, hes not as efficient as he used to be hes still a smart bruiser.

[Ruzious]

^ If Perkins deal was expiring, I'd do it. But the extra year gives me pause since he really brings nothing to the table.

I think he'll be ok until Okafor gets back, as well as a good bruiser next to seraphin or vesely, I think he is unfit on that thunder rostee next to surge...having him nxt to vesely running around will enable him to be more stationary and in the paint where he belongs...

The main attraction is another 1st rd pick, this draft suppose to be the best in yrs and 2 juggernauts have top picks (Miami has philly/chicago has Charlotte) we need to package to move up if we plan on actually drafting, if not I'm sure 2 1st rds sound very good to teams with unhappy superstars

perkins also becomes an expiring going into nxt season, hes also a vet with a ring and known for toughness and locker room leadership, I think some rebuilding teams would rent him out jus to guide they're younger bigs if we need to move him doing the off season or deadline, hes not as efficient as he used to be hes still a smart bruiser.

Perkins is an awful basketball player at this point - and for the last 2 seasons. He's nothing more than the equivalent of the stereotypical NHL thug. I don't want him anywhere near the Zards.

[mhd]

Emeka+Porter+2014 1st for Horford+Lou Williams?

[fugop]

We should try to get a guy like Udoh from the Bucks. He'd come cheap, and I'd be ok with him as a rotation defensive specialist.

[Illuminaire]

Emeka+Porter+2014 1st for Horford+Lou Williams?

I think that's overpaying for a good-not-great player in Horford. It could make sense, though, under certain conditions. If Wall comes out killing it and playing on an MVP level, and Beal shows strong improvements and hints of all-star talent... then yeah, you can start looking into a trade like that, because you think you're one truly productive big away from contending.

The number of assets required to get a legitimately above-average big is staggering enough from a strategic perspective that I think a smart organization avoids such trades unless they are 100% sure they have everything else they need (or the big in question is a dominant, generational player like KG or Howard).

[nuposse04]

Emeka+Porter+2014 1st for Horford+Lou Williams?

If its lotto protected 1st, I'd make that trade easily.

We should try to get a guy like Udoh from the Bucks. He'd come cheap, and I'd be ok with him as a rotation defensive specialist.

He's injured and terrible.

[Ruzious]

Emeka+Porter+2014 1st for Horford+Lou Williams?

I think that's overpaying for a good-not-great player in Horford. It could make sense, though, under certain conditions. If Wall comes out killing it and playing on an MVP level, and Beal shows strong improvements and hints of all-star talent... then yeah, you can start looking into a trade like that, because you think you're one truly productive big away from contending.

The number of assets required to get a legitimately above-average big is staggering enough from a strategic perspective that I think a smart organization avoids such trades unless they are 100% sure they have everything else they need (or the big in question is a dominant, generational player like KG or Howard).

I disagree. While Horford is not a generational player, you don't pass up a chance to get him if you're not giving up the core of your team - and Porter, Okafor, and a future pick are not the core of the team. Horford's a rare big who gives you a very efficient 20 PER while being a very good defender, has no significant weaknesses, can play C or PF, and is still just 27. Wall, Beal, WebAriza, Nene, and Horford with Lou Williams and some tweaking the roster to develop a bench that fits gives you a chance to compete. Otto would have to develop very quickly for Atlanta to consider making that deal, imo. I hope he does.

[stevemcqueen1]

Emeka+Porter+2014 1st for Horford+Lou Williams?

I think that's overpaying for a good-not-great player in Horford. It could make sense, though, under certain conditions. If Wall comes out killing it and playing on an MVP level, and Beal shows strong improvements and hints of all-star talent... then yeah, you can start looking into a trade like that, because you think you're one truly productive big away from contending.

The number of assets required to get a legitimately above-average big is staggering enough from a strategic perspective that I think a smart organization avoids such trades unless they are 100% sure they have everything else they need (or the big in question is a dominant, generational player like KG or Howard).

I disagree. While Horford is not a generational player, you don't pass up a chance to get him if you're not giving up the core of your team - and Porter, Okafor, and a future pick are not the core of the team. Horford's a rare big who gives you a very efficient 20 PER while being a very good defender, has no significant weaknesses, can play C or PF, and is still just 27. Wall, Beal, WebAriza, Nene, and Horford with Lou Williams and some tweaking the roster to develop a bench that fits gives you a chance to compete. Otto would have to develop very quickly for Atlanta to consider making that deal, imo. I hope he does.

This is an interesting trade. I really like Horford. He's a terrific player and he's got a terrific contract. But there is some injury history there. And I'd be really hesitant to deal Porter this early. He was the best two way player in the class IMO and there is a chance he could end up being a better player than Horford.

I don't want to deal him before we get a better look at his upside.

Dealing Porter plus this 2014 pick could totally mortgage the future. You need an absolutely iron clad excellent long term return from that.

Also, I don't get the sense ATL is open to dealing Horford. I think he's the centerpiece of their team.

[nuposse04]

ATL has no plans of mailing it in right now. So its a pipe dream. I'd be surprised if Porter ends up being a better player then Horford. He gives you 17-10 on great efficiency...You can't really find too many bigmen like that. He's only missed major time one season. Played 74 games last season...which is pretty good...but probably translates to 48 games here.

[Ruzious]

It will take a bad first half of the season for Atl's team to trade Horford, but as I said a while back - I think that's likely to happen. But if Mike Scott continues to shoot the way he has in preseason, they'll be ok.

[Dark Faze]

At this point I'd place a priority on moving Nene. Not just for on the court concerns but I think his mental fortitude is starting to be called into question. He's seeming really soft mentally right now and I don't want that to rub off on our young guys. I like how he's helped to change the maturity level in the locker room, but his complaints about injuries and minute reduction are potentially just as cancerous.

[stevemcqueen1]

At this point I'd place a priority on moving Nene. Not just for on the court concerns but I think his mental fortitude is starting to be called into question. He's seeming really soft mentally right now and I don't want that to rub off on our young guys. I like how he's helped to change the maturity level in the locker room, but his complaints about injuries and minute reduction are potentially just as cancerous.

This is a stretch. Nene is far from a cancer and he's good when he's on the court. He welcomed a minutes reduction rather than complained about it. Nene is definitely not soft. He's dealt with some **** and he's a positive influence on young players.

My guess is that you're real beef with Nene is the same as everyone else's--contract length and injury history.

[stevemcqueen1]

ATL has no plans of mailing it in right now. So its a pipe dream. I'd be surprised if Porter ends up being a better player then Horford. He gives you 17-10 on great efficiency...You can't really find too many bigmen like that. He's only missed major time one season. Played 74 games last season...which is pretty good...but probably translates to 48 games here.

Yeah, I don't think Porter ends up being as good as Horford, but I think he'll get to a point where he is in that realm. A "B" to "B+" player. I think his ceiling is near the level of play Horford has reached.

Positional value goes to Horford, but not by as much as you'd think. SFs who can do it all are super valuable. And I think Porter could be equal to Horford and be more valuable against the delta of his position because PF is actually deeper than SF is right now.

Age & contract situation are clear advantages for Porter. But Horford is a finished product of course, and Porter is at square one.

Oak's expiring is a nice asset, and one we could use for ourselves. But the point of cap room is to get good players, and I'd consider swapping Oak's 14 million for Horford's 12 million accomplishing that goal in spades.

But losing Porter stings. He's supposed to be the third member of the long term foundation. Throwing in the 2014 pick with Porter makes the risk really large. ATL could make the deal, tank, and use this draft class and Porter to build a foundation all in one year. Meanwhile, we could mortgage our future for Horford and if he has injury issues here, then we've potentially compromised our ability to contend in the present and well down the road of the Wall/Beal era. We'd be giving up our FA money for this summer and next summer--good FA years--a projected long term foundation piece in Porter, and a pick in what looks like an incredible draft.

And on ATL's end, Horford is their best player and their team's centerpiece, on an affordable contract with three years of team control. Since they're not tanking as of now, that's a lot of risk for them to take on: they'd have to develop Porter themselves, hope they can do something with Oak's savings, and hope we have a bad season + hope someone they can use is there with that pick. It makes more sense for ATL to wait until he's expiring to think about dealing Horford and use the two offseasons in the meantime to try and get something built around him.

High lotto picks are hard to deal for good value early in their careers. Porter would need to be really good early on to be as valuable to other teams as he is to us, and in that case, why trade him?

The timing isn't right for this deal IMO. The risk/reward isn't right for either team yet. I think we should stand pat, look only for expirings if possible, pour our energy into developing Wall/Beal/Porter, and try and set ourselves up financially to make a run at Kevin Love down the road. I think that leaves us with the best possible team down the road.

[stevemcqueen1]

I do really like Horford though. I would rather try and build a deal around Nene though. Nene + 2014 first + 2015 first. I don't know if that would get it done, but that's about all I see being useful to ATL outside of Wall/Beal/Porter, who I wouldn't put on the table at this point.

There is a lot of potential risk in that deal. Dealing out of this 2014 class is high risk. Dealing a quality 7 footer in Nene for an undersized C like Horford is risky.

But my thinking is that, if you swap Nene's contract for Horford's, you've essentially kept your cap situation the same. Nene's deal is just 1 million more per year over the same length. That way you can still use all of the savings from Okafor and Ariza to go get that last big piece. Horford is better than Nene straight up too.

Then say Kevin Love opts out and becomes a UFA for the summer of 2015. We'd have only about 42 million dollars in cap commitments going into 2015/2016 and we could make a run at Love. Wall's 14.7 million + Horford's expiring 12 million + Beal's final option year ~5.7 million + Porter's first option year ~4.7 million + Martell's partially guaranteed final year (which should be somewhere around 5.5 million).

I think you could sell Love on his ability to legitimately contend with that core because Wall, Beal, Porter, Love, and Horford is a potentially incredible starting 5. They'd be amazing offensively and on the glass. Of that group, Love is projected to be the only below average defender. It'd be a small team unfortunately. I don't see a way around that problem, nor do I see a way around the injury issues. But it'd be a fantastic offense with deadly floor spacing and well balanced inside and outside scoring. They could afford to give up some quality on D because they'd score so much.

[deneem4]

idk about horford...remember he played next to josh smith his whole career...I wan to see his numbers without smith...also this next draft is going to be heavy, if were going to give up promising players and picks I want Aldridge or a big man who can carry the team... and nene has to go...now if we can somehow get asik and horford im down...but if we plan on moving picks and porter we should become a contender after tht...

What about

Rockets recieve
Nene
2015 2nd

Hawks recieve
2014 1st
Porter
Okafor
2014 2nd

Wizards recieve
Asik
Horford
Terrance jones or greg smith

Or maybe something similar for monroe or even a package for cousins and patterson

[Dark Faze]

Not trading Porter for anyone other than a superstar I.E Melo/Durant at this point.

I obviously would do the Nene trade.

As of right now I can't include a 1st rounder for anything other than a tier 2/3 talent I.E LMA/George/Cousins. This season could have disaster written all over it if Nene goes down and we'd be looking at Wiggins as a real possibility if we get lucky and can jump into the top 3 of the lottery again.

[stevemcqueen1]

Horford doesn't have the upside or move the needle like Cousins, George, Aldridge, etc.

But he's better than both Cousins and George IMO and he's a better fit here than Aldridge would be. Aldridge needs the ball in his hands to do his thing on offense and would turn Wall into a shooter too often, and he's not as good a rebounder or defender as Horford.

Aldridge can be a total beast on offense and take over games and score in the clutch like a star player. But he's a weak defender and pretty mediocre rebounder for a 7 footer with his length and athleticism. Because of that, you have to make personnel decisions to compensate for his weaknesses, you just can't plug and play with him. And because of that, Portland has fielded a lot of losing teams despite the fact they've had an AS big.

Horford is the opposite. He's kind of like Nene/Porter/Beal in that he doesn't take anything off the table or require special lineups/personnel moves.

This is all academic anyway, we don't have an indication any of these players are available. BUT, if given the choice, there aren't a ton of bigs in the league I'd take over Horford. Excellent & complete player on a great contract.

[stevemcqueen1]

idk about horford...remember he played next to josh smith his whole career...I wan to see his numbers without smith...also this next draft is going to be heavy, if were going to give up promising players and picks I want Aldridge or a big man who can carry the team... and nene has to go...now if we can somehow get asik and horford im down...but if we plan on moving picks and porter we should become a contender after tht...

What about

Rockets recieve
Nene
2015 2nd

Hawks recieve
2014 1st
Porter
Okafor
2014 2nd

Wizards recieve
Asik
Horford
Terrance jones or greg smith

Or maybe something similar for monroe or even a package for cousins and patterson

There is no way I'd make that trade. I think you give up too much for too little return. Getting back just Asik and Horford and a flier like T Jones is not enough for losing Nene, Oak's expiring, Porter, and the 2014 pick. Horford is the only thing I'd actually consider notably valuable, and you're giving up four valuable assets for him.

Asik is a role player. He's a big goon. You could get 80% of him at a fraction of the cost in cap money and trade assets from a journeyman like Reggie Evans. He's definitely not worth trading off a player as good as Nene for.

Also Horford is a better player than Josh Smith and that's the crux of why ATL chose to keep him and let Smith walk. Smith is a great defender, but he's such a bad offensive player that he puts you in a lurch. Horford is the opposite. In addition to being a competent defender, he's an excellent offensive player that can pass and set his teammates up, and also score inside and outside with excellent efficiency. You also don't have to run a ton of plays for him to score a lot either because he gets offensive rebounds and converts them into scores at a good rate. I think Smith benefited from playing with Horford a lot more than vice versa.

[deneem4]

But we'll be instant contenders with horford amd asik...im an avid cousins fan and this whole thread I bern trying to get him...obviously il rather do tht hawks trade with sac for cousins...

I really want cousins and asik...

Reggie evans is a good rebounder but he plays across from brook lopez, its a relative type of thing...u underestimate asik defense...if thw rockets didnt play run and gun his stats would be wayyy better...

Adding so much for horford is overkill considering I dont really lik him...but if want to be true contenders we'll need a dominant combo like that downlow

Considering how timberwolves is playing love might be available for the right price...but all we have is sfs amd theyre loaded at tht spot...

maybe a nene and 2014 1st and 2015 1st can pry him away...
but idk
With love we can start seraphin and get depth thru ariza and okafor trades that would make a contender as well

Whatever moves we make need to put us into contender mode, and get us legit big men the east is wayy to strong downlow now...especially with the pistons bucks and taj gibson getting a jumper...