GOAT SF

[ThunderDan9]

This is between Bird and Lebron. By the end of the day, it will be Lebron.
The Doctor is the rock solid 3rd.

Then, there is some space...

[bledredwine]

Offensively, Bird. Overall, Lebron.

[Mazter]

I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

Bird's dissapointments, just a peak in all the lost series Birds average plummeted with 5ppg or more:
1981: 15.3 ppg in the Finals, they still won, but not thanks to him.
1982: 17.2 in the Conf semis, 18.3 ppg in the Conference Finals, C's lost.
1985: 20.8 in the conf Finals, 23.8 ppg in the Finals, C's lost (he averaged 28 in the RS and 30 in the first two rounds).
1988: 19.8 ppg on 35% shooting in the conference finals, C's lost.
1991: 13.4 ppg on 38% shooting in the conf semis, C's lost.
1992: 11.8 ppg in the conf semis, C's lost.

Unless you mean something else with dissapointments.

[arifgokcen]

I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

Bird's dissapointments, just a peak in all the lost series Birds average plummeted with 5ppg or more:
1981: 15.3 ppg in the Finals, they still won, but not thanks to him.
1982: 17.2 in the Conf semis, 18.3 ppg in the Conference Finals, C's lost.
1985: 20.8 in the conf Finals, 23.8 ppg in the Finals, C's lost (he averaged 28 in the RS and 30 in the first two rounds).
1988: 19.8 ppg on 35% shooting in the conference finals, C's lost.
1991: 13.4 ppg on 38% shooting in the conf semis, C's lost.
1992: 11.8 ppg in the conf semis, C's lost.

Unless you mean something else with dissapointments.

People really forget how bad bird choked back in his day.Lebron worst performance is significantly better than most of bird worst.

[DHodgkins]

I can't how you guys are putting Lebron over Bird & Doc when the man himself said that they are better than him

[Archaeon]

Still Larry for me but Lebron might surpass him.

[Chalky White]

1. Larry
2. LeBron
3. Durant
4. Doc J
5. Pippen

I lean toawards Durant over Irving, but I understand someone thinking opposite of that.

[MisterHibachi]

Durant is being way over rated. He is not the 3rd best small forward ever.

[MaliBrah]

I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

Isn't LeBron the all time NBA career leader in elimination game ppg?

also all time leader in game 7 ppg IIRC

[Brenice]

I go with LeBron here but he needs to punish teams in big series, instead of losing confidence and looking lost like Ben Wallace when dared to shoot open jumpshots.

[Rasho_libre]

I go with LeBron here but he needs to punish teams in big series, instead of losing confidence and looking lost like Ben Wallace when dared to shoot open jumpshots.

Ben Wallace never dropped 37 points in game 7 when dared to shoot "jump shots".

[Warspite]

I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

Bird's dissapointments, just a peak in all the lost series Birds average plummeted with 5ppg or more:
1981: 15.3 ppg in the Finals, they still won, but not thanks to him.
1982: 17.2 in the Conf semis, 18.3 ppg in the Conference Finals, C's lost.
1985: 20.8 in the conf Finals, 23.8 ppg in the Finals, C's lost (he averaged 28 in the RS and 30 in the first two rounds).
1988: 19.8 ppg on 35% shooting in the conference finals, C's lost.
1991: 13.4 ppg on 38% shooting in the conf semis, C's lost.
1992: 11.8 ppg in the conf semis, C's lost.

Unless you mean something else with dissapointments.

If scoring is all that matters then Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry might be better than LBJ. Saying the Celtics won without thanks to Bird when the guy avged almost a triple double on a team that won 27 games the yr before is quite sad.

Not sure the Heat could win 1 game vs most of the teams that beat Birds Celtics. Have those series were after Bird was injured. If Bird had Derrick Rose and LBJs heart then he wouldnt have been playing in 88 playoffs and retired before 91 or 92.

[INKtastic]

Offensively, Bird. Overall, Lebron.

sure, if you ignore the fact LeBron has a better scoring average, averages more assists (both while playing at a far lower pace than Bird), has a better TS%, a better eFG%. And overlook that LeBron's raw FG% last year was better than Bird's career average TS%. Either Birds offense gets way overrated or LeBron's gets way underrated.

The advanced offensive stats have LeBron over Bird by a mile. And the gaps only widen in the playoffs.

[INKtastic]

I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

Bird's dissapointments, just a peak in all the lost series Birds average plummeted with 5ppg or more:
1981: 15.3 ppg in the Finals, they still won, but not thanks to him.
1982: 17.2 in the Conf semis, 18.3 ppg in the Conference Finals, C's lost.
1985: 20.8 in the conf Finals, 23.8 ppg in the Finals, C's lost (he averaged 28 in the RS and 30 in the first two rounds).
1988: 19.8 ppg on 35% shooting in the conference finals, C's lost.
1991: 13.4 ppg on 38% shooting in the conf semis, C's lost.
1992: 11.8 ppg in the conf semis, C's lost.

Unless you mean something else with dissapointments.

If scoring is all that matters then Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry might be better than LBJ. Saying the Celtics won without thanks to Bird when the guy avged almost a triple double on a team that won 27 games the yr before is quite sad.

Not sure the Heat could win 1 game vs most of the teams that beat Birds Celtics. Have those series were after Bird was injured. If Bird had Derrick Rose and LBJs heart then he wouldnt have been playing in 88 playoffs and retired before 91 or 92.

Cedric Maxwell did win finals MVP on a team with Bird, McHale, Parish against a sub .500 team that greatly benefited from round one being best 2 out of 3. That's sort of like Mario Chalmers winning finals MVP on the Heat.

[bledredwine]

Offensively, Bird. Overall, Lebron.

sure, if you ignore the fact LeBron has a better scoring average, averages more assists (both while playing at a far lower pace than Bird), has a better TS%, a better eFG%. And overlook that LeBron's raw FG% last year was better than Bird's career average TS%. Either Birds offense gets way overrated or LeBron's gets way underrated.

The advanced offensive stats have LeBron over Bird by a mile. And the gaps only widen in the playoffs.

You know what I didn't ignore?

That unlike Lebron, Bird didn't have a gaping hole in his offensive game that literally made teams leave him wide open to take midrange shots.

Much like KD, Bird was unguardable. Offensively, it's Bird > Lebron. Lebron's not even the best scorer in the league now.

Arguing efficiency is a joke. Lebron's efficiency only spiked when he joined the Heat and was allowed to let other players take over as 1 option. He never gets doubled. And his midrange percentage in the finals last time I checked for his CAREER was in the 20's. That's rancid.

At Bird's peak (pre-injury), he was a 28-29 PPG player with over .500 percentage on mostly midrange game. Clearly a superior offensive player, much like like Pippen's clearly a superior defensive player. That being said, overall I take Lebron.


PS> Did I mention that Bird could actually hit the vast majority of his free throws?

[Warspite]

Bird's dissapointments, just a peak in all the lost series Birds average plummeted with 5ppg or more:
1981: 15.3 ppg in the Finals, they still won, but not thanks to him.
1982: 17.2 in the Conf semis, 18.3 ppg in the Conference Finals, C's lost.
1985: 20.8 in the conf Finals, 23.8 ppg in the Finals, C's lost (he averaged 28 in the RS and 30 in the first two rounds).
1988: 19.8 ppg on 35% shooting in the conference finals, C's lost.
1991: 13.4 ppg on 38% shooting in the conf semis, C's lost.
1992: 11.8 ppg in the conf semis, C's lost.

Unless you mean something else with dissapointments.

If scoring is all that matters then Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry might be better than LBJ. Saying the Celtics won without thanks to Bird when the guy avged almost a triple double on a team that won 27 games the yr before is quite sad.

Not sure the Heat could win 1 game vs most of the teams that beat Birds Celtics. Have those series were after Bird was injured. If Bird had Derrick Rose and LBJs heart then he wouldnt have been playing in 88 playoffs and retired before 91 or 92.

Cedric Maxwell did win finals MVP on a team with Bird, McHale, Parish against a sub .500 team that greatly benefited from round one being best 2 out of 3. That's sort of like Mario Chalmers winning finals MVP on the Heat.

Differant time differant era. The Finals wasnt even on TV that yr. The writers voted the day before so they could get there stories done on the typewritters and then mailed into the office.

No role player will ever win another Finals MVP. It will always go to the best player on the winning team from now on. It wasnt always a star driven league in which the best player got 99% of the attention. What you are ignoring was that Maxwell was the MVP because his man was always double teaming Bird and Bird found him. Birds series in 81 was MVP worthy. 15ppg 15rpg 7apg is not a choke or a bad series. Parish was in foul trouble guarding Moses and McHale was a rookie 9th man who played 14mpg and only scored 28pts the entire series.

Maxwell was the 3rd leading scorer on that team so it would be more like Chris Bosh/Wade getting the Finals MVP.

[mademan]

Offensively, Bird. Overall, Lebron.

sure, if you ignore the fact LeBron has a better scoring average, averages more assists (both while playing at a far lower pace than Bird), has a better TS%, a better eFG%. And overlook that LeBron's raw FG% last year was better than Bird's career average TS%. Either Birds offense gets way overrated or LeBron's gets way underrated.

The advanced offensive stats have LeBron over Bird by a mile. And the gaps only widen in the playoffs.

You know what I didn't ignore?

That unlike Lebron, Bird didn't have a gaping hole in his offensive game that literally made teams leave him wide open to take midrange shots.

Much like KD, Bird was unguardable. Offensively, it's Bird > Lebron. Lebron's not even the best scorer in the league now.

Arguing efficiency is a joke. Lebron's efficiency only spiked when he joined the Heat and was allowed to let other players take over as 1 option. He never gets doubled. And his midrange percentage in the finals last time I checked for his CAREER was in the 20's. That's rancid.

At Bird's peak (pre-injury), he was a 28-29 PPG player with over .500 percentage on mostly midrange game. Clearly a superior offensive player, much like like Pippen's clearly a superior defensive player. That being said, overall I take Lebron.


PS> Did I mention that Bird could actually hit the vast majority of his free throws?

LOL, so there is no objective measure by which Bird is a better offensive player than Lebron but you'll still take him because you like that he scores more on jumpers? Why does it matter how Lebron scores if he scores more on better efficiency in the RS and PS? By all regular stats and advanced stats, Lebron crushes Bird.

Is it a weakness for Bird in comparison to Lebron that teams play him tight? Disrespecting his driving ability in relation to his shooting ability? Why is it a weakness for Lebron the other way around?

[mademan]

And lol at Lebron never getting doubled. Did you miss the finals where Green literally left Wade alone to double on Lebron?

[ThunderDan9]

1981: 15.3 ppg in the Finals, they still won, but not thanks to him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A



What an utter disappointment. Surely, his team didn't "thank" him anything.

[trex_8063]

This is between Bird and Lebron. By the end of the day, it will be Lebron.

Agree. At this point I still give it to Bird, but I suspect I'll be saying different after just one more season.

The Doctor is the rock solid 3rd.

Agree again.

Then, there is some space...

Agree a third time. imo, you can't really have Pippen as a voting option without also including Baylor and Havlicek.