Otto Porter

[Dat2U]

It's either always "far too early to draw conclusions" or it's "time to stop living in the past" with DCZards, there's really never a good time to have an actual opinion, unless it's in line with his own thought processes.

Peace and love, Dat, peace and love.

and hair grease, plenty of hair grease.

[tontoz]

I think the correct philosophy behind the pick was too take the BPA, assuming that BPA wouldn't be in conflict with Beal/Wall. I think the only way we could justify taking a 1 or 2 is if they were far and away the better prospect.

I don't think it is that hard to make the case that Porter was the BPA over Zeller, although i wouldn't have been upset if Zeller was the pick. I think it is harder to make that case with Noel. Like many here i think Noel could be the guy we regret passing on.

[GhostsOfGil]

Eh.. I dont think that was the philosophy at all. I think EG knew he needed to take a player who he thought could contribute immediately. IMO Noel is a clear cut better prospect and was the BPA when Porter was picked. EG tried to play it safe which just ended up being an extremely short sighted move.

Side note. Looks like Porter is out vs MIA tonight

[tontoz]

Eh.. I dont think that was the philosophy at all. I think EG knew he needed to take a player who he thought could contribute immediately. IMO Noel is a clear cut better prospect and was the BPA when Porter was picked. EG tried to play it safe which just ended up being an extremely short sighted move.

Side note. Looks like Porter is out vs MIA tonight

Then that would beg the question as to why they were so aggressive in resigning Webster with Ariza and Porter already on board.

To me there was only one logical reason to pass on Noel, that he had serious long term health questions. If that was not the case then it was a mistake not to draft him imo.

[rockymac52]

Eh.. I dont think that was the philosophy at all. I think EG knew he needed to take a player who he thought could contribute immediately. IMO Noel is a clear cut better prospect and was the BPA when Porter was picked. EG tried to play it safe which just ended up being an extremely short sighted move.

Side note. Looks like Porter is out vs MIA tonight

Then that would beg the question as to why they were so aggressive in resigning Webster with Ariza and Porter already on board.

To me there was only one logical reason to pass on Noel, that he had serious long term health questions. If that was not the case then it was a mistake not to draft him imo.

^This.

It's one thing to accuse Grunfeld of drafting Porter because he was the "safer" pick, but it's unfair to assume Grunfeld drafted Porter because he felt that he would contribute the most immediately. For the reasons that tontoz pointed out, it's pretty obvious that we didn't pick Porter because of his immediate short-term contributions. We wouldn't have re-signed Webster if that were the case, or we would have traded Ariza for a big man by now. Since neither of those moves have been made, it's safe to assume that we picked Porter because we thought he was the best fit, LONG-TERM. Grunfeld did the exact opposite of what you're accusing him of - instead of drafting based on positional needs, he took the best player available, which is the right move. Quit looking for reasons to hate on the man.

As for Noel, I again feel the same way. He was the only player on the board for our pick that I personally would have taken instead of Porter, but that all hinges on his health. Since so many teams passed on Noel, I'm inclined to think that there was something very concerning with his knees.

[stevemcqueen1]

His measurements are alot like Paul George ...hopefully is game is aswell

Paul George has a pretty good first step and is a helluva leaper. Both things Porter simply will never be able to do. I do think he can be a better shooter (3pt and midrange) as well as a comparable rebounder. Also, when paul george is locked in on D, he can take most wings out of the game, while I think Porter's defensive ceiling is high, he'll need a couple seasons to be able to compare with the likes of George and Leonard.

Different players, George is more of a SG/SF hybrid while Porter is more of a SF/PF hybrid. Definitely different footspeed and leaping ability as you mention.

I think Porter will be a better offensive player than George. I think there is a major difference in their scoring instincts--as big, if not bigger than the difference in their athletic ability. Porter is super instinctive and George just isn't very instinctive.

[stevemcqueen1]

Been said a lot, but it needs to keep being said: a lot of the angst about Porter comes from the SL performance. That's ridiculous. It was like three exhibition games. Any argument for or against him based on SL is a bad one, period. You'd think we'd have learned our lesson about jumping the gun once and for all last year with Beal since the same thing happened with him at the start of last season. Porter is similar to Beal. These are guys who are not going to show up and dominate a format like SL. Instead their styles are tailored to playing good basketball in real games.

The rest of the negativity comes from people who are pissed about taking him over Noel and they're looking to complain about him while the mood is receptive to it. When Noel doesn't see the floor until December or January and only plays like 10 minutes per game on an awful sixers team this season, I think you'll hear a lot of that resentment quiet down.

[nuposse04]

His measurements are alot like Paul George ...hopefully is game is aswell

Paul George has a pretty good first step and is a helluva leaper. Both things Porter simply will never be able to do. I do think he can be a better shooter (3pt and midrange) as well as a comparable rebounder. Also, when paul george is locked in on D, he can take most wings out of the game, while I think Porter's defensive ceiling is high, he'll need a couple seasons to be able to compare with the likes of George and Leonard.

Different players, George is more of a SG/SF hybrid while Porter is more of a SF/PF hybrid. Definitely different footspeed and leaping ability as you mention.

I think Porter will be a better offensive player than George. I think there is a major difference in their scoring instincts--as big, if not bigger than the difference in their athletic ability. Porter is super instinctive and George just isn't very instinctive.

Yeah Porter should soley be used as a SF for now. He may bulk enough to be a stretch 4 but I think we ran him a bit as a SG in SL play...which just seems like a dumb idea. His ball handling is fine for a rookie SF (better then Barnes) but we didn't do our rotation players in SL any service by not having competent playmakers to run with them.

[GhostsOfGil]

Then that would beg the question as to why they were so aggressive in resigning Webster with Ariza and Porter already on board.

To me there was only one logical reason to pass on Noel, that he had serious long term health questions. If that was not the case then it was a mistake not to draft him imo.

+1 Exactly. Now I'm not going to act like I know what went on behind the scenes but this is what I posted right after Draft Day:

Just listened to the most recent BS report with Chad Ford. Chad Ford is reporting that James Andrews went on record to say that Noel's knee was ahead of schedule his recovery was going as planned. Cleveland's doctors said the same. Dr Andrews sent emails and letters to team GMs and said "There was no feedback from any team doctors or team GMs". Based off interviews with GMs, Chad Ford says that most of them passed on him because there was fear of him not being able to contribute until his second year. Cleveland's pick was between Bennet and Noel. Obviously they went with Bennet. For GMs to pass on Noel simply because he was going to miss 2 months of the season is extremely short sighted.

Chard Ford also talked about how Washington wanted to make the playoffs and how their draft pick was heavily influenced by this.

Basically sounds like Ernie felt the pressure from ownership and fans which made him play it safe due to his pervious draft misses. I understand if you legitimately think Porter will be the better player. Thats arguable. But to make this pick based of next year's playoff aspirations is just such a dumb short sighted move.

[omegatronic3]

Then that would beg the question as to why they were so aggressive in resigning Webster with Ariza and Porter already on board.

To me there was only one logical reason to pass on Noel, that he had serious long term health questions. If that was not the case then it was a mistake not to draft him imo.

Not only did we bring back Ariza but we picked up Harrington..who essentially plays the same position as Porter. That tells me they dont have any confidence in Porter. I'm looking forward to seeing Porter with Wall and Beal though because hes a guy that needs good players around him.

On the bright side Beal is looking good

[stevemcqueen1]

Then that would beg the question as to why they were so aggressive in resigning Webster with Ariza and Porter already on board.

To me there was only one logical reason to pass on Noel, that he had serious long term health questions. If that was not the case then it was a mistake not to draft him imo.

Not only did we bring back Ariza but we picked up Harrington..who essentially plays the same position as Porter. That tells me they dont have any confidence in Porter. I'm looking forward to seeing Porter with Wall and Beal though because hes a guy that needs good players around him.

On the bright side Beal is looking good

Ariza was already under contract this year before we drafted Porter. He had a player option for this season and picked it up.

Harrington plays PF, not SF, and signed a one year vet min contract. Signing him doesn't reflect on the team's plan for Porter at all.

[Knighthonor]

Then that would beg the question as to why they were so aggressive in resigning Webster with Ariza and Porter already on board.

To me there was only one logical reason to pass on Noel, that he had serious long term health questions. If that was not the case then it was a mistake not to draft him imo.

+1 Exactly. Now I'm not going to act like I know what went on behind the scenes but this is what I posted right after Draft Day:

Just listened to the most recent BS report with Chad Ford. Chad Ford is reporting that James Andrews went on record to say that Noel's knee was ahead of schedule his recovery was going as planned. Cleveland's doctors said the same. Dr Andrews sent emails and letters to team GMs and said "There was no feedback from any team doctors or team GMs". Based off interviews with GMs, Chad Ford says that most of them passed on him because there was fear of him not being able to contribute until his second year. Cleveland's pick was between Bennet and Noel. Obviously they went with Bennet. For GMs to pass on Noel simply because he was going to miss 2 months of the season is extremely short sighted.

Chard Ford also talked about how Washington wanted to make the playoffs and how their draft pick was heavily influenced by this.

Basically sounds like Ernie felt the pressure from ownership and fans which made him play it safe due to his pervious draft misses. I understand if you legitimately think Porter will be the better player. Thats arguable. But to make this pick based of next year's playoff aspirations is just such a dumb short sighted move.

Unless you're Stealth Tanking...

Just saying.

He took the safe pick in the eyes of local fans with a GT hero. Yet if they fail, it cant be his fault right?
Injuries, and bust that was a local hero could make the tank seem legit but not in a negative tanking way that people have with this Wiggins thing.

[Ruzious]

Then that would beg the question as to why they were so aggressive in resigning Webster with Ariza and Porter already on board.

To me there was only one logical reason to pass on Noel, that he had serious long term health questions. If that was not the case then it was a mistake not to draft him imo.

Not only did we bring back Ariza but we picked up Harrington..who essentially plays the same position as Porter. That tells me they dont have any confidence in Porter. I'm looking forward to seeing Porter with Wall and Beal though because hes a guy that needs good players around him.

On the bright side Beal is looking good

Ariza was already under contract this year before we drafted Porter. He had a player option for this season and picked it up.

Harrington plays PF, not SF, and signed a one year vet min contract. Signing him doesn't reflect on the team's plan for Porter at all.

+1. It was Webster who was brought back. They had no choice with Ariza, and he's likely gone next season. The fact that they drafted Porter tells me they have all the confidence in the world in him - in the long term. And as long as Harrington plays well - like he did tonight - he helps Porter.

[Mediocrity]

When is Porter expected back? Are they just being cautious with him?

[Dark Faze]

I'm not heavily saddened by this years draft based on Noel. Yea, I think the guy is going to be great defensively, but I truly feel like we're moving to an era now where dominant wing help is becoming more of a priority than defensive C's.

The gap between the Okafors and Gortats of the world (fairly easily acquired FA's) and the crown jewels of the position in Dwight and Hibbert is much smaller than the Caron Butlers / Luol Dengs in comparison to Lebron and Durant. The gap is even bigger when you talk about FA guards like Kyle Lowry and Jarrett Jack vs Chris Paul and Rose.

So would I have preferred Noel? Yea, but it would probably be more difficult to grab a great SF in order to compete in the playoffs than it would to grab an adequate defensive big.

[GhostsOfGil]

I'm not heavily saddened by this years draft based on Noel. Yea, I think the guy is going to be great defensively, but I truly feel like we're moving to an era now where dominant wing help is becoming more of a priority than defensive C's.

I don't agree with this at all. Look at Indiana's playoff run. George is a great defender but Hibbert was much more impactful in terms of defense.

So would I have preferred Noel? Yea, but it would probably be more difficult to grab a great SF in order to compete in the playoffs than it would to grab an adequate defensive big.

That's a silly argument because IMO, we have a playoff caliber SF rotation already. Now look at next years FA crop. Look at our aging front court. Look at Ernie's kids. All of these things make passing on Noel (or any other big man), unacceptable. Porter was the safe pic. Ernie is on the hot seat. Ted's a Georgetown guy. Perfect storm for making another ill advised pick.

[Dark Faze]

The point you made about Indiana is odd. They don't do jack without either of those guys so it's not a compelling argument either way. Now tell me how many great SF's have been available or come through the draft the last 5 years? The SF position has been just awful in terms of up and coming all-star talent.

As for our current SF depth--relying on Webster is a recipe for disaster and it's no secret that Ariza is looking to get paid and favors the West coast. He's a goner unless we overpay. Besides that, Porter has significantly higher upside than either.

And using your argument, how long would it take for Noel to be a better player than either Nene or Okafor? Even diehard Noel fans can admit it will take him a few years to play great D for us.

I really think it ends up being a moot point. There are trades out there for us at C with guys like Asik and Gortat. There would have been trades out there for us at SF had we gotten Noel with guys like Deng and Granger.

Team A

Wall
Beal
Porter
Nene
Asik/Gortat

Team B
Wall
Beal
Deng/Granger
Nene
Noel

Both teams are effective imo

[hands11]

I'm not heavily saddened by this years draft based on Noel. Yea, I think the guy is going to be great defensively, but I truly feel like we're moving to an era now where dominant wing help is becoming more of a priority than defensive C's.

The gap between the Okafors and Gortats of the world (fairly easily acquired FA's) and the crown jewels of the position in Dwight and Hibbert is much smaller than the Caron Butlers / Luol Dengs in comparison to Lebron and Durant. The gap is even bigger when you talk about FA guards like Kyle Lowry and Jarrett Jack vs Chris Paul and Rose.

So would I have preferred Noel? Yea, but it would probably be more difficult to grab a great SF in order to compete in the playoffs than it would to grab an adequate defensive big.

A great player period is hard to find. But a great SG/SF, SF, PF/C seem to be the once that really take you over the top and since a great SF handles the ball like PG, rebounds and plays tough D, they can be huge difference makers.

Duncan, Dirk, KD, MJ, Bird, Lebron, PP, KG. Only Magic really stands out as a PG at that level and as good as

Shaq was, its hard for a center to do it without a lot of help because they need to ball given to them.

[hands11]

Ted was courtside tonight and said Otto is about 2 weeks out. Said they were not rushing him. Didn't need him right now because of Trevor A and Webster so he should take him time and make sure he gets healed up correctly before returning.

They really have seemed to make a huge shift in how they deal with injuries. Always seeming to go the extra mile to rest the players as long as they need now.

If you think Beal wasn't dealt with that way, well Beal wasn't being honest with them. He said so.

[Knighthonor]

This guy isnt getting the play time to develop and get rid of the rust.