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Horford still waiting on big-man help

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Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#1 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:58 pm

How many times does the guy have to ask for it.

His greatest team success came when he played next to a legit defensive Center. He's suffered a season long injury and struggled in numerous playoff series against bigger, stronger competition.

He's acknowledged he's not physically able to take an entire year's worth of pounding at the Five. His previous coach mentioned on numerous occasion the benefits of AL playing PF with a real Center next to him. Even previous GMs indicated he wouldn't be stuck playing Center long-term here.

I give Ferry credit; he did at least draft two young bigs capable of playing Center long term this summer. But they won't be here for at least another year. His two biggest acquisitions in the frontcourt this year are each 6'8" and were drafted as PFs.

AL goes on record again with our old pal Sekou regarding this issue:

Al Horford wrote:That's something that I did question when it didn't happen. It takes a toll on your body physically that outweigh you like that. But the way that they have portrayed it to me is we're trying to play faster, get up and down the floor and get the pick and roll movement going. It's not the ideal scenario for me, but I have to work with what I have and make the most of it."


http://www.nba.com/preview/2013/ATL/index.html
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#2 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:01 pm

The rookie Horford stepped up and helped the Hawks make the playoffs...under the assumption that things would change. In fact, after that first season, he was told that he wouldn't have to labor in the low-post against guys two and three inches and 30 and 40 pounds bigger than him any more.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#3 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:08 pm

I'm sensing some doubt from Horford in Ferry's plans for the future:

"Yeah, you're right about that," said Horford, who watched free agency come and go without Hawks general manager Danny Ferry bringing in that starting center to help take the load off down low. "That's something that I did question when it didn't happen."

http://www.nba.com/preview/2013/ATL/index.html

"Not at all," said Al Horford when asked if he was previously familiar with Budenholzer before he was hired.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Atlanta-Hawks/1/news

I’m not going to lie to you," Horford said. "I questioned certain things, like ‘What is going on here...I have to trust them.’ "More than anything, I have to trust in (General manager) Danny (Ferry) and his vision and where he is going," Horford said.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/229968/Al-Horford-Trusts-Vision-Of-Hawks-Management

Just reading between the lines here, but not exactly glowing praise for the GM from our best player.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#4 » by Yungsta404 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:29 pm

I remember tito horford (his dad) begging the hawks to not play him at center. we are going to shorten his career if we keep playing him at center. We have been treating him like crap. I wont be surprised if he leaves when his contract is over. Right now he has no leverage to demand a trade since he still has a few years left.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#5 » by Geaux_Hawks » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:10 am

What I don't get is how can a guy as big as he is, complain about not wanting to bang against 5's. There's only so many legit centers bigger than him that's even worth considering in the league currently and he doesn't face them often being in the southeastern division. Heck, half of them are honestly PF's playing the 5.

Also, he has a better advantage at the 5 since he is quicker and an excellent shooter from mid-range. They're either going to defend the shot, or give it up. Either way, its almost a lose-lose situation. So why trade that for a size advantage over smaller, but more skilled 4's?! He'll have the size to back some 4's down, and throw that baby hook, but it's really not opening more up for him and creating a better mismatch imo.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#6 » by parson » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:40 am

Well, there are intelligent posters (fact - not sarcasm) here who are sure he's wrong, but it's obvious Horford thinks he'd be better at PF.

We could argue that point 'till we're blue in the face.

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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#7 » by Durins Baynes » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:44 pm

Horford will change his mind in the next year, once things start looking good, and he's posting star numbers. If you could find a real 5 to compliment Horford that would be great, but a guy like Asik doesn't really make the team better in place of Milsap.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#8 » by Skyhawk1 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:05 am

We pay him 12 M/season. A bargain compared to other big men in the league. He is our leader. He's asked to play the 4 and 5 positions. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that the Hawks haven't tried to get a decent C. Even if you have to overpay for a decent C, you got to do that. Splitter, Bogut, Jefferson, and many other centers are not worth what they make, but they are C, that could've been obtained had the Hawks made an effort. I just have the feeling that when Horford's contract is up he is not just going to forget about all of that.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#9 » by Durins Baynes » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:32 am

Bogut wasn't available, and will be extended (as usual) before next offseason. Splitter was a restricted FA, and isn't an upgrade over Milsap anyhow. Jefferson isn't really a 5, and makes the team worse. If you can get a good 5 for him, you do, but that's not easy. I don't think Asik really makes the team any better.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#10 » by f-town » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:33 am

Durins Baynes wrote:Bogut wasn't available, and will be extended (as usual) before next offseason. Splitter was a restricted FA, and isn't an upgrade over Milsap anyhow. Jefferson isn't really a 5, and makes the team worse. If you can get a good 5 for him, you do, but that's not easy. I don't think Asik really makes the team any better.


agreed

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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#11 » by parson » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:00 pm

Asik would make us bigger and stronger (and healthier), with better interior defense and rebounding. When the game slowed (4th qtr, playoffs), he'd be essential.

Scoring would probably take a hit, unless our chemistry improved.

We've been small for a long time; we know a small team has to work harder. Night in and night out, it's just too much.

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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#12 » by Durins Baynes » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:38 pm

There are very few 5's Horford can't match up with, so what's the urgency?
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#13 » by parson » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:47 pm

Durins Baynes wrote:There are very few 5's Horford can't match up with, so what's the urgency?

Gee, howzabout our being bigger, stronger and healthier with better interior defense and rebounding, resulting in a team that's better in the 4th and during the playoffs?

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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#14 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:02 pm

Geaux_Hawks wrote:What I don't get is how can a guy as big as he is, complain about not wanting to bang against 5's


I think the issue is less about the talent of the opposing Centers he faces, but the size and strength. Defensively, it's extremely taxing to simply guard/box out against guys that are 30-50 pounds heavier than you night in and night out.

In the East alone He faces:

Drummond (270 lbs)
Lopez (7ft 275 lbs)
Jefferson (290 lbs)
Vucevic (7ft 250)
Hibbert (7'2" 290 lbs)

plus defensive seven footers like Noah and Chandler. And a number of teams employ bigger players at backup Center as well.

Again, it is exhausting to have to guard bigger guys every game. And there is currently no real Center anywhere on our roster. We basically employ a team full of Power Forwards. We've already seen AL lose almost a whole year due to injury. (A pectoral tear is common weightlifter injury when guys are literally trying to lift to heavy of a load.)

We're tempting fate by forcing him to handle this responsibility full time and alone.

Plus, again, his greatest team success came with him paired with a legit defensive Center. Let's at least TRY it and see. Instead of just pairing him with an undersized PF and no backup Center every single season.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#15 » by Durins Baynes » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:25 pm

Firstly, he matches up fine with those guys. He even did well against Hibbert (though some size wouldn't hurt there). The bottom line is Horford is mostly fine matching up with 5's. Now of course, it would be great if you could get a 5 for him, but is Asik it? I don't think he helps much if at all. What you gain in D you lose on O. Milsap is a good scorer, and that's an important consideration too.

I'm sure Horford would rather guard weaker 4's. And we should care about this because? You want players to play inside if they can. Sure, it has a toll on his body, but he's still young and better he take advantage while he can. You don't want him becoming a softie outside shooter like some bigs try to become. The reality is his biggest impact is probably at the 5 (unless you can add a really good center next to him), so just keep him there for now.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#16 » by theatlfan » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:14 pm

One thing I'm not seeing here: Elton Brand is most definitely a C at the current stage in his career. Now, I wouldn't want him getting more than 20 minutes per, but I'm sure we'll be using all of those minutes on the opposing team's #1 C if warranted. Considering that most of the C's listed above are getting somewhere in the 30-35 minute range, Horford will only be defending these guys for about 1 quarter spread out through the game and also have some minutes against the opponent's #2.

Can't see why this would be talked about as much as it is...
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#17 » by Yungsta404 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:50 am

Durins Baynes wrote:Bogut wasn't available, and will be extended (as usual) before next offseason. Splitter was a restricted FA, and isn't an upgrade over Milsap anyhow. Jefferson isn't really a 5, and makes the team worse. If you can get a good 5 for him, you do, but that's not easy. I don't think Asik really makes the team any better.


I disagree Asik gives us elite rebounding, elite rim protection, and intangibles such as toughness and physicality that would make us better. That is something we NEVER had. We have always been a soft team that has always been clowned and at time looked little girls once teams got physical with us.

He is the kind of center that isnt afraid to lay someone on their ass when they try to attack the rim and send a message. That kind of intangible is what can take a team to a new level.

Elite rebounding and interior defense is what makes teams like chicago and the pacers overachieve with less talent and a **** offense.

That defensive anchor (tyson chandler) is what helped a dallas team get rid of the soft label and get them over the hump and led to a championship.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#18 » by Durins Baynes » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:19 am

Asik is a good, tough man defender, but he's no rim protector. He's just not that kind of inside anchor, so you're left asking whether it's worth getting a bigger man defender inside, at the cost of losing a more talented player who can score. I tend to think you're better off with Milsap. Horford doesn't think so I'm sure, but he's got to play where he's best suited, even if he doesn't like getting roughed up in the paint. I mean, that's your job big guy. I like Horford, but I'm not a fan of telling players they don't need to play inside as much because "it will take years off my career". I'd rather you had a bigger impact in the years you play than have you play longer floating around on the perimeter trying to be Dirk Nowitzki.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#19 » by BAMABIRD » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:07 am

Would have been nice to hear Horford publicly lobbying for free agent centers to come to ATL. Don't recall him saying anything, but yet he was on twitter crying about Teague leaving.
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Re: Horford still waiting on big-man help 

Post#20 » by Yungsta404 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:18 pm

Durins Baynes wrote:Asik is a good, tough man defender, but he's no rim protector. He's just not that kind of inside anchor, so you're left asking whether it's worth getting a bigger man defender inside, at the cost of losing a more talented player who can score. I tend to think you're better off with Milsap. Horford doesn't think so I'm sure, but he's got to play where he's best suited, even if he doesn't like getting roughed up in the paint. I mean, that's your job big guy. I like Horford, but I'm not a fan of telling players they don't need to play inside as much because "it will take years off my career". I'd rather you had a bigger impact in the years you play than have you play longer floating around on the perimeter trying to be Dirk Nowitzki.


LOOL @ saying asik doesnt protect the rim. That tells me you have NEVER watched him play or have no idea what it means to be a rim protector.

Please read this article. http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/15/ ... on-rockets

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