LeBron startled by hypocrisy of KG, PP leaving Celtics

[DijonRondo]

This was the claim in dispute.

Cant find one because google's flooded with this very story right now but it's out there. If I remember right, Ray's counter offer was $12 million per.. and then he bolted to the team that knocked him out of the ECF for the vet minimum.

Guy's not only "classy" and "loyal" but "competitive" as well. The total package.

I call bull on Ray demanding $12 mill. Ray's not an idiot. Heck, he negotiated one of his Milwaukee contracts without an agent (he just hired a lawyer to do the paper work). No way did he ask for $12 mill per. That's just absurd.

It was reported by multiple sources. The Celtics offered him $6 million per season, and he "counter-offered" $12 million/year because he knew the Celtics couldn't and wouldn't do it. Then he turned around and signed a deal with the Heat for $3 million/year if I recall correctly.

Get your facts straight before "calling bull".

So yeh, I don't get how posting a link showing he asked for less than $12 mill (at one point in the negotiations, not as a final demand) is supposed to be a "F#@$ you" comeback, when it backs up my incredulity all along.

The point is that 9 is more than 6. And 6 is more than 3. 6 was way too much already. I'll need to call my fictional attorney before we procede and we might have to call the Boston police department for River's alibi during the Allen negotiations to see if foul play was involved.

[Durins Baynes]

Well that post is a lot less pertinent, because it's not what was in dispute. I'm sure there are other posts you made in your 13,000+ post time here that also weren't wrong, but I didn't quote them either. You shouldn't take being proven wrong so personally. In fact, some people might even think you should apologise for your rudeness and retract your earlier remarks. At least that's the way we roll where I'm from.

[SuperDeluxe]

Well that post is a lot less pertinent, because it's not what was in dispute.

So what was in dispute was the accuracy of the $12 million? I thought we were actually discussing the way Ray Allen made impossible demands to the Celtics in order to mask his already-made decision to join the arch-enemy, the team he had faced just a few weeks earlier playing a few games like an old geezer who couldn't throw a basket ball into the ocean.

I'm sure there are other posts you made in your 13,000+ post time here that also weren't wrong, but I didn't quote them either. You shouldn't take being proven wrong so personally. In fact, some people might even think you should apologise for your rudeness and retract your earlier remarks. At least that's the way we roll where I'm from.

I now see the error of my ways, thank you. My most sincere apologies.

[SuperDeluxe]

Ten years here and I am still good at getting riled up by a troll.

[Durins Baynes]

There were multiple things being discussed on this thread. One of them was whether Allen was demanding $12 mill per year, which I called bull on. You sneeringly replied to tell me I was wrong, and told me to "get my facts straight", but in fact I was quite correct. You were wrong. You have not apologised or retracted your remarks, instead you've been twice as rude since then. Pretty poor form.

[DijonRondo]

For the record, Allen posted some of his worse numbers in the playoffs in 2012. Career lows in PPG, 3PFG% FG% and FT% since his first playoff appearance. That year was also his worse numbers in the per 36 mins category. He had less than a .100 win share per 48 mins, which is crazy considering the Celtics actually made it to the ECF and took the champs to 7 games. He had a pathetic career low in eFG% TS% and had a measely 10 per (lol).

Is this the same **** that you think "deserves" 6-9(12) million?

[SuperDeluxe]

There were multiple things being discussed on this thread. One of them was whether Allen was demanding $12 mill per year, which I called bull on. You sneeringly replied to tell me I was wrong, and told me to "get my facts straight", but in fact I was quite correct. You were wrong. You have not apologised or retracted your remarks, instead you've been twice as rude since then. Pretty poor form.

I just gave you an And1 for the smile you brought upon my face.

[Taget]

Lebron James is like Miley Cyrus. Much easier to enjoy with the mute button on.

Seriously. Does this guy even have PR people?

[jirrit]

For all you know I am a Celtic fan. Strictly speaking Celtic interests are best served by Doc staying on the Celtics, and not coaching a rival team into the future. I'm not sure how helping Brooklyn really serves Celtic interests, given the fairly modest return obtained for them in a trade. Lastly, OJ Mayo is not any sort of upgrade on Ray Allen. Mayo has already proven he doesn't belong on a winning team. I think a lot of Celtic fans are disappointed with sending off Pierce, KG and Doc, and the decision not to pay more to keep Allen. You could easily have tanked this year with KG and Pierce playing every 2nd game in limited minutes (and with other moves designed to artificially lower the win total). Pierce especially clearly didn't want to go elsewhere. Personally of course, I'd have traded them, or KG at least, because this is a business. But if it's a business, you can't fault Ray for leaving either. It's pretty obvious which way the wind was blowing. The Celtics wanted to replace him with Bradley, and were heading towards a rebuild. He just got out a year early.

It's all about moving to the Miami Heat of all places. And demanding so much money and then signing for the team you've battled against. It's all business I know but you damn know this is stabbing someone in 'the heart'. Like your gf picking your best friend over you or some random dude. It's just that extra stab that makes it 'FY Ray'

[ryan in Maine]

There were multiple things being discussed on this thread. One of them was whether Allen was demanding $12 mill per year, which I called bull on. You sneeringly replied to tell me I was wrong, and told me to "get my facts straight", but in fact I was quite correct. You were wrong. You have not apologised or retracted your remarks, instead you've been twice as rude since then. Pretty poor form.

To recap,

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=30#p37159604
You enter the discussion proclaiming your rightness. You then claim that Ray is a victim of Boston unloyalty. Nothing else you said was wrong or even disagreeable from my pov, but you're off to a rough start considering your posting location.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=30#p37159760
Here you demonstrate your skepticism of Ray's salary negotiations. You also claim Boston was trying to give Ray's role away. That's a rough follow-up to your initial entrance into the discussion.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=30#p37160111
Here you question 15thoverall's comments about Ray requesting $7-9 million per with a no trade clause. That is perfectly normal. It was a strange claim. But then you remember "talk" of Ray being benched for Bradley and Ray being shopped. You will have to forgive anyone's eyebrow swoosh at you remembering that tidbit with your current track record of remembering things.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=45#p37161410
Here, you try a classic journalism technique commonly deployed to illicit emotion. Your phrasing is literally offensive to people who were watching the Celtics play basketball at that time. Ray did not get benched after Boston tried to trade him away. So screw loyalty. Now, people on this board see it as Ray pulling a Cartman after he got outplayed and forgot how to shoot a basketball. Rather than Ray picking himself up and dusting himself off to dedicate himself to the next season, he began whining to the media. You must remember that since it's usually brought up in conjunction with the "benched for Bradley then shopped" thing you remembered in your previous post. If anything, Ray should've publicly apologized for playing so unRay-like.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=45#p37161575
Here, you call bull on 15thoverall's claim of Ray demanding $12 million per. You were right to do this, because that figure from 15thoverall was insane and he should've known better as soon as he reread what he typed. This is your first post in the discussion that isn't trying to stir up some controversy.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=45#p37161673
Here, you respond to kulo's post where he corrected 15thoverall's claim to $6 million per by choosing to concentrate on 15thoverall's post rather than just stfu and move along knowing it was a ridiculous claim. This can be considered picking a fight (or trolling.) You need to know when to let it go.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=45#p37161692
Here you are asking for a link to support the $12m claim after SuperDeluxe (who also should know better) joined 15thoverall in moment of false memory. This would be a reasonable request if it wasn't just so fing lazy. You have access to all the resources we do. But I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume you were hoping someone had a link bookmarked and ready for gift-wrapping.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=45#p37161742
Here you are refusing to use Google. I'm ok with this, because the $12m per claim is pretty wild. But again, you're feeding and seeding confrontation. Arguing. Trolling. It's a vibe some people (especially regular posters and mods) are prone to getting from time to time.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=45#p37161801
Here you elect yourself correct. Some people may be put off by this.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=60#p37161911
Here you begin defending your fanship (maybe) and you go in a different direction from your previous posts. Other posters are probably wondering why you have time to argue and do a sudden breakdown of the team's position in the end of the PGA era, but refuse to Google something. Again, I'm with you on that bogus $12m per figure, but it looks dodgy to other people in that discussion with you.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=60#p37162071
This is your 2nd normal post in the thread. But you also referenced your own previously controversial claims. So some people might not dig that technique. It's a net-neutral.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=60#p37162456
You're officially beating this horse so hard. You should've let it go, man. Everyone else has moved on for the most part, and the discussion has moved on to greener pastures. Until you post again, that is...

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=75#p37166007
Here you are getting mad and delving into semantics (and being just way too serious for a sports board.) This is known as the "you mad doggie?" method of posting. And boy are "you mad" when you reach the point of telling people to "Put up or shut up."

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=75#p37166147
Beat that horse, Durins Baynes! "Are you not entertained!?!?"

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=75#p37166277
You are literally prattling along like a tweeny bopper debating pop music at this point. Everyone has officially stopped taking you seriously, including the posters who agreed with you.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=75#p37166375
Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He who seeks truth finds it. No matter what quote used to sum this post up, you're officially annoying everyone unlucky enough to find your posts. A mod is completely within their rights and duties to ban you for trolling at this point. And I agree with your stance!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=90#p37168309
Now everyone knows that, not only are you lazy and argumentative, but you're really fing petty, too. If that's what you were going for then you just put on a clinic, bruh. A clinic!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=90#p37168432
You are a crusader for sports board justice. Bra-vo!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=90#p37168493
Now here, you actually turn into a dickface. Was it a full moon? No, I don't think it was (sorry I don't have a link to prove it.) You must just be a dickface.* A dick literally just sprung forth from your face.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1278146&start=90#p37168575
They're just messing with you by this point, man. Not a good look for you. I've seen less commitment from bitter divorce proceedings. But at least you were right and they were wrong. That's ultimately what leads to sports board power and respect.

Please stop posting. At least in this thread. Maybe consider taking a mental health day from work.

* Yes. Name-calling. Absolutely.

[celtxman]

I went through the 8 pages of comments, and I want to put aside the strong opinions we all have about Ray Allen. What I'm seeing in this whole thing is a NY writer Stefan Bondy coupling with a NY Daily News headline maker stirring the pot.....and succeeding. Ray Allen is on the Miami Heat. He's on Lebron's team. I compare Lebron's comments to a baseball manager running out of the dugout and arguing with an umpire because his player was upset with a call - even if the call was right. He's getting brownie points from the player. If KG had gone to the Heat and Allen had stayed he would be defending KG and dissing Allen. He's basically encouraging Allen.
So the NY paper throws in words like "hypocrisy" , they purposely fan the flames, and create news. Guys like Bondy and Frank Isola are Knicks homers anyway so they can toss this out and take jabs at people they hate - Lebron, KG, and Pierce.

[15th overall]

Like some others posting here, I do not judge Allen negatively for his actions, and do not believe for a second he asked for too much money. He's a smart and reasonable guy, it seems unlikely it happened. I never remember reading anything credible to that effect either, so if you're going to tell me I'm wrong you should back it up with something.

Looks like I was wrong about the exact figure and you were wrong about, well, damn near everything. Not sure why you think this invalidates the actual point of contention here, most likely because your not here to actually debate anything.

If you could please respond by flexing your vocabulary muscles (we're all super impressed!) and ignoring Ray's shady contract negotiations entirely, I can bow out of this thread a happy young Korean boy.

[heytherepaul]

Durins Baynes is an idiot. It is so clear, so simple to see the differences between the situations, but like LeBron, ignorance is bliss.

The Celtics tried to persuade Ray Allen to stay, going above and beyond to bring him back for one more run. Offer 6 mil a year with a no trade clause and he turns it down for 3 mil a year and possibility of a trade.

The Celtics talked Paul Pierce and Garnett into leaving so that they could get on with the rebuild.

One person was a free agent, the others had their hands forced via trade. Kevin Garnett had everything torn apart around him and he still almost wouldn't waive his clause. Ray Allen was asked to stick with us one more time and go all-in. He elected to jump ship to our arch rival. Ray couldn't see that missing out on a ring and doing the badass thing of sticking with your team could be more satisfying than being a small cog on an already championship team without him. It's a joke. Durin Baynes says he is logical yet I haven't seen evidence of this. He needs to google the definition of logic before he googles Ray's salary.

[Devilanche]

Well that post is a lot less pertinent, because it's not what was in dispute. I'm sure there are other posts you made in your 13,000+ post time here that also weren't wrong, but I didn't quote them either. You shouldn't take being proven wrong so personally. In fact, some people might even think you should apologise for your rudeness and retract your earlier remarks. At least that's the way we roll where I'm from.

Where are you from?
Derailling a topic with issues that doesn't really matter since Lebron didn't say about the 3, 6, 9 or whatever number that i may have missed.

Issue has always been that players take it is as a business while fans believe in loyalty. And sports players are obviously not the smartest around.

[Durins Baynes]

My opinion about Ray Allen has already been stated, and it's much like what ResDog wrote. He saw the writing on the wall and got out before the front office blew the team up. It was a justified choice, for which he owes nobody any apologies. In retrospect it was the right call too- he won a ring while KG and Pierce were rewarded for their loyalty by being traded after another wasted year.

[SuperDeluxe]

Someone is a glutton for punishment.

[Durins Baynes]

Someone is a glutton for punishment.

That's a pretty strange comment from a guy who told me to "get my facts straight", but turned out to be wrong on said facts (and then didn't apologise for being rude about his error).

[Slartibartfast]

This thread has lost its way. I'm locking it.