Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV

[deneem4]

I'm guessing "potential" in your eyes could probably be expressed by something like Pts per game + max vertical + bench reps + lane agility + 3/4 court sprint.

^^^^exactly....and u missing size...

Not to mention harrison barnes put up 16/6rebs with a 45% fg in the PLAYOFFS his ROOKIE year in the western conference...

And you're saying he wasnt impressive as a rookie??? are you serious?

When I say that Barnes wasn't very impressive as a rookie, I mean that compared to the league's average player, Barnes shot worse from 2pt%, was average from 3pt range and the free throw line, got fewer rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and points. He was better than average in avoiding turnovers and fouls -- something to build on.

College is different from the nba and porter wasnt a dominant college player at that...but you guys dont even estimate him to average more than 15pts per game during the regular season...

You do realize that Porter was BETTER in college than Barnes. Don't you?

Il take an athletic scorer over a glue guy anyday...you cant teach explosiveness, power, speed, vert....but u can teach how to block lanes, hustle for loose balls set weak side picks...do you guys not understand who the top 5 players in the league are???

They mostly athletic and physically gifted

Name your top 5. Even a guy like Lebron, who is indeed an overwhelming athlete, isn't great solely because of his athleticism. Lebron, for example, is great because he combines great athleticism with top-shelf skills and a first-rate basketball IQ.

He was a fckn rookie!!...look up beal stats and see how he shot as a whole...
None of those stats matter if u cant do it in the playoffs...
College dont matter its a difference between playing with men and boys
Regular season barely matter ask Cleveland lebron

Lebrons skills is based soley on his body and athleticism
U dont get hard d on lebron because he'll blow past u...
U cant trap lebron because hes strong enough to pinpoint passes anywhere on the court
U can't have him in the post because he can back u down with his strength
U cant stop him on aa drive cause he strong enough to get through the contact
His jumper is only so polished because defenders confused on how to guard him

You dont hear people talk about lebron because of his skills or moves or techniques

U hear them say hes built like a freight train and moves on turbo hes a freak of nature

Kobe is a plauer with technique...basically sht he learned from mike, he has moves
Rose even bein an athletic player, has technique when driving thru contact
Chris paul/ tony parker have various moves which help them score floaters all type of things
And my top 5 is

Durant...size and shooting
Rose...speed and technique
Westbrook...explosiveness and aggressiveness
Melo...shooting
Kobe...hes kobe

I dont like lebron, nor do I respect him...hes not special outside of his physical attributes...
If u put anthony davis in a weight room u can have another lebron...harrison barnes can be another lebron after he gain some muscle...

[Nivek]

So I've been reading with K. Faried is available potentially? Is it time to make amends for that draft miss and offer a package for him? You have the benefit of him being on his rookie deal for two more years so you don't cut into cap space. His rebounding would also be a huge asset in terms of triggering the fast break. Just curious; how low of a lotto protection would you all be willing to take to get Faried?

Here's what I think of Faried: I'd swap next year's UNPROTECTED 1st round pick plus whatever scrub salary was necessary to get him. Add Faried and the Wizards are a playoff team.

[jivelikenice]

^Agree. I'd make it top 3 protected (just in case), but I'd go for it. A core of Wall/Beal/Faried/Otto has big time potential down the road. In the end, lotto protection wouldn't stand in the way as there's no reason for that team to be anywhere near a top lotto pick.

[nuposse04]

mysynergy rates Faried as a terrible defender. While I think he's a substantial upgrade, that data is kind of discouraging. His rebounding would be nice but if really is a defensive liability there may be less rebounds to collect.

I'd probably trade a top 10 protected pick+Booker+Ariza for him and some salary filler i suppose.

[jivelikenice]

Denver wants a more traditional big so Seraphin might make more sense there. CCJ would finally get to see McGee/Seraphin paried together!

[Nivek]

He was a fckn rookie!!...look up beal stats and see how he shot as a whole...

Okay, Beal's efg was about the same as Barnes' (.477 for Beal vs. .481 for Barnes). Beal was more efficient overall offensively, though because he had more assists and the same number of offensive rebounds as that big freak athlete with HUGE upside. (I mean Barnes.) Beal also blocked more shots than that freak athlete Barnes.

Fair point -- Barnes was indeed a rookie. Kind of a funny thing...the league has other rookies too. Why, maybe we could compare them. So, last season there were 39 rookies who played at least 500 minutes. Barnes ranked 23rd in PER. Per minute among that group, he was 18th in rebounding, 23rd in assists, 22nd in steals, 34th in blocks (about the same number of blocks per minute as Damian Lillard and Austin Rivers), and 15th in points.

So, even compared to his own peers -- his own class of rookies -- he doesn't impress.

None of those stats matter if u cant do it in the playoffs...

Last season, Barnes had a playoff PER of 13.8. Average is 15.0. His playoff PER wasn't even the best rookie PER on his own team -- Draymond Green posted a 13.9.

Over the past 5 years, 39 rookies appeared in at least 50 playoff minutes during their rookie seasons. Barnes ranks 15th in PER among that group -- behind such perennial All-Stars as Brandon Jennings, Evan Turner, Lavoy Allen, Eric Maynor, Michael Beasley, and Greg Stiemsma.

College dont matter its a difference between playing with men and boys

And yet, the top college players are usually the best pros.

Regular season barely matter ask Cleveland lebron

Lebrons skills is based soley on his body and athleticism
U dont get hard d on lebron because he'll blow past u...

Yes, because of his quickness, strength, size, and his ball-handling skills.

U cant trap lebron because hes strong enough to pinpoint passes anywhere on the court

Yes, and also because of his high basketball IQ that enables him to find open teammates where the defense can't defend.

U can't have him in the post because he can back u down with his strength

Yes, as well as his array of post moves, ball handling and superb shooting.

U cant stop him on aa drive cause he strong enough to get through the contact

Yes, and he drives in part because of his superior ball handling.

His jumper is only so polished because defenders confused on how to guard him

Last season, Lebron shot better than the league average from every range except 10-15 feet. The old "Lebron isn't a good shooter" scouting report is out of date.

You dont hear people talk about lebron because of his skills or moves or techniques

Really? I do.

U hear them say hes built like a freight train and moves on turbo hes a freak of nature

Sure. And, the folks I talk to also discuss his improved shooting, his ball-handling, his court vision, and his hoops IQ. To reduce what Lebron does to being purely physical is a) wrong, and b) an insult to the amount of work the man has put into his game.

Kobe is a plauer with technique...basically sht he learned from mike, he has moves
Rose even bein an athletic player, has technique when driving thru contact
Chris paul/ tony parker have various moves which help them score floaters all type of things
And my top 5 is

Durant...size and shooting
Rose...speed and technique
Westbrook...explosiveness and aggressiveness
Melo...shooting
Kobe...hes kobe

I dont like lebron, nor do I respect him...hes not special outside of his physical attributes...
If u put anthony davis in a weight room u can have another lebron...harrison barnes can be another lebron after he gain some muscle...

Okay, earlier today you asserted that the game's best players are the best because of their athleticism, and then mention skills in 4 of your personal top 5.

I think I'm about done here.

[Nivek]

mysynergy rates Faried as a terrible defender. While I think he's a substantial upgrade, that data is kind of discouraging. His rebounding would be nice but if really is a defensive liability there may be less rebounds to collect.

I'd probably trade a top 10 protected pick+Booker+Ariza for him and some salary filler i suppose.

I have some "issues" with MySynergy numbers. In my stuff, he rates a bit better than average in defensive impact. He rates better than average using RAPM (which is NOT "my stuff"). Looking at on/off, Denver was significantly worse defensively when he was in the game as a rookie, but were about the same with/without him last season.

That said, sooo much of defense is about scheme and teamwork. I think he'd be fine in Washington with Nene and/or Okafor protecting the rim.

[nuposse04]

mysynergy rates Faried as a terrible defender. While I think he's a substantial upgrade, that data is kind of discouraging. His rebounding would be nice but if really is a defensive liability there may be less rebounds to collect.

I'd probably trade a top 10 protected pick+Booker+Ariza for him and some salary filler i suppose.

I have some "issues" with MySynergy numbers. In my stuff, he rates a bit better than average in defensive impact. He rates better than average using RAPM (which is NOT "my stuff"). Looking at on/off, Denver was significantly worse defensively when he was in the game as a rookie, but were about the same with/without him last season.

That said, sooo much of defense is about scheme and teamwork. I think he'd be fine in Washington with Nene and/or Okafor protecting the rim.

If you look at their breakdown on types of defensive plays, you see his clearly one of the worst spot up shooter defenders in the league. He's not a particularly good ISO or post defender (you would think he'd be a better ISO defender, I can understand him being a bad post defender as he's kind of small [although his standing reach is alright]) but he does other areas well. I think randy is a good defensive coach and could get some good effort out of him, but I think his value might be overstated. Derrick Williams also surprisingly rates as a better defender then Faired, which is surprising, but considerably worse offensively.

[Nivek]

I know that's what Synergy numbers say. I'm not particularly enamored with their methodology, however.

[nuposse04]

I know that's what Synergy numbers say. I'm not particularly enamored with their methodology, however.

as someone who is not privy why their numbers are bad, I have little else to go off of :/ . His dRTG score is good but that isn't an absolute either. The truth may be he is an adequate defender who excels in rebounding and high efficiency offensive plays. I'd like to see him make a leap this season with his jumpshot. It is BAD. I just don't think he's worth an unprotected pick...maybe top 10-12. I could see a lot of guys from this upcoming draft being better players then him.

[payitforward]

So I've been reading with K. Faried is available potentially? Is it time to make amends for that draft miss and offer a package for him? You have the benefit of him being on his rookie deal for two more years so you don't cut into cap space. His rebounding would also be a huge asset in terms of triggering the fast break. Just curious; how low of a lotto protection would you all be willing to take to get Faried?

Here's what I think of Faried: I'd swap next year's UNPROTECTED 1st round pick plus whatever scrub salary was necessary to get him. Add Faried and the Wizards are a playoff team.

Me too! He's a fantastic player. How we didn't take him I'll never know.

[Ruzious]

It would be great to take advantage of the change in Denver's front office and steal Faried. The new group is not beholden at all to keep him. And there's talk that Faried won't even start for Denver. Unfortunately, Denver needs a 2; not a 3, so offering Porter won't get him unless the Wiz could work out a 3 way. I don't think we entertain trading Beal. A future 1st and a couple Ernies kids likely wouldn't be enough.

And considering EG passed up Faried to get Singleton... with EG here, there's no chance we get Faried.

[jivelikenice]

^otto? Now way. Nobody would have traded the third pick for Faried. If their new regime doesn't wan to sign him longterm and he's asking for a big contract, his value isn't that high regardless. My guess is one of Ernie's kids and a top 5-7 protected 1 gets it done. If not, add the rights to Sato as a sweetener.

[mhd]

What about this deal:

Wiz trade Ves+Singleton+Seraphin+unprotected 2014 1st for Asik
Hou trade Asik for Jeff Green
Bos trade Green for Ves+Singleton+Seraphin+Wiz 2014 1st

[deneem4]

U obvious is oblivious to real basketball...u probably believe lebron would beat kobe in a 1on1

Dominant college players are the best pros...u kno the players with the most upside

With the exception of kobe...all of those player is physically gifted...and im speakn on kobe now

And what moves do lebron has in the post??? He cant even post better than wade....not to mention bosh...only tthing heddoes in the post is uses his strength over smaller players....how often does he actually use a move against bigger forwards?
Not to mention he jus learned how to post 2 yrs ago, after how many yrs in the league..

Im pretty sure if u puy melo on the heat instead lebron, his %% would be incredible, its hard to shoot bad around 4 more shooters 2 hall of fame at that while another being automatic from anywherw inside the 3...its also hard to make bad passes completely over sizing your opponents while plays with future haall of famers, and 3pt specialist, and polished vets...

Lebron drive effectively cause u wont dare get in his way...if u see blake r driving towards the basket with the ball u get out the way...he has the possibility to pick the ball up smd elevate soon as u reach your hand in which is jus a foul snf still a dunk

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

So I've been reading with K. Faried is available potentially? Is it time to make amends for that draft miss and offer a package for him? You have the benefit of him being on his rookie deal for two more years so you don't cut into cap space. His rebounding would also be a huge asset in terms of triggering the fast break. Just curious; how low of a lotto protection would you all be willing to take to get Faried?

Here's what I think of Faried: I'd swap next year's UNPROTECTED 1st round pick plus whatever scrub salary was necessary to get him. Add Faried and the Wizards are a playoff team.

Me too! He's a fantastic player. How we didn't take him I'll never know.

Might of had something to do with my frequent posts and emails to the Wizards FO, starting over a year before the draft, saying Faried would be great. No way they didn't know about him. They obviously had much more faith in their great scouting department and Jan Vesely.

Everybody on this site, just about, by draft time wanted Faried. I mean evvvvvreebody. But, in typical Wizards fashion they thought not just Vesely but also Singleton was better.

[deneem4]

Ariza/2nd rd
For
D williams..

Be perfect for ariza, considering he'll be theyre best defender and wouldnt have to worry about scoring being surrounded by love and martin...
Budinger is injured and Minnesota is interested in gettin a sf until Budinger come back...

If otto was healthy we could maybe do a
Otto/2nd rd/booker
For
Williams/dieng


That solves our stretch and future defensive big man problems

[rockymac52]

Ariza/2nd rd
For
D williams..

Be perfect for ariza, considering he'll be theyre best defender and wouldnt have to worry about scoring being surrounded by love and martin...
Budinger is injured and Minnesota is interested in gettin a sf until Budinger come back...

If otto was healthy we could maybe do a
Otto/2nd rd/booker
For
Williams/dieng


That solves our stretch and future defensive big man problems

Okay, I'm not even going to touch that second trade proposal, because that is ludicrous.

Now that Williams' team option has been picked up, I have no interest in him. He'd prevent us from signing a max FA like Monroe, which makes it a terrible trade.

[Ruzious]

^otto? Now way. Nobody would have traded the third pick for Faried. If their new regime doesn't wan to sign him longterm and he's asking for a big contract, his value isn't that high regardless. My guess is one of Ernie's kids and a top 5-7 protected 1 gets it done. If not, add the rights to Sato as a sweetener.

I'd trade Porter for Faried 7 days a week and twice on Sundays - regardless that he's 2 years closer to free agency. He's a proven quality big man. Otto's a nice small forward prospect - no more no less. If I want to win, I take the proven quality big man over a nice small forward prospect every time. Then again, I'd take Favors over Hayward every time, but at least in that situation - Hayward's proven he can play in the NBA.

Why would Denver settle for a mid to low 1st round pick and junk for Faried?

[deneem4]

Ariza/2nd rd
For
D williams..

Be perfect for ariza, considering he'll be theyre best defender and wouldnt have to worry about scoring being surrounded by love and martin...
Budinger is injured and Minnesota is interested in gettin a sf until Budinger come back...

If otto was healthy we could maybe do a
Otto/2nd rd/booker
For
Williams/dieng


That solves our stretch and future defensive big man problems

Okay, I'm not even going to touch that second trade proposal, because that is ludicrous.

Now that Williams' team option has been picked up, I have no interest in him. He'd prevent us from signing a max FA like Monroe, which makes it a terrible trade.

Williams was 17/8 per 36 shooting 45%...
He fixes a problem we have which is scoring in the front court, we have 3 forwards not named otto
Dieng also fixes a problem...young shot blocking big...said to have serge ibaka potential
And nene blocks us from signing a max fa...even though we would still have room for monroe maxed...
Please explain why otto would be better than williams and dieng