WAS at DET Preseason Game Thread

[FAH1223]

With the front court being thin at the Center position, tanking is a possibility. This team isn't good enough to get into the postseason without Okafor for a good stretch. Wall doesn't show up to every game either.

The perfect storm is for them to be healthy and lose a lot to get EG fired. We need him gone before he damages whatever moves can be made for the rest of this decade.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

I don't think Ted will let EG make any major moves, if he doesn't plan on resigning him. You guys should be scared if EG makes a major trade...he's gonna be here for a WHILE.

[Illmatic21]

Wizards are too good of a defensive team to tank outright. We're likely going to end up in that middling 30-35 win range.

[jivelikenice]

Tank talk is just stupid. No other word for it. Wall & Beal are to good not to win 30-35 if they stay relatively heathy. We have three top 3 picks, potential cap room, and tradeable assets. Get over the tank talk. I have no problem if Ernie makes a deal to strengthen the team this year as long as its for a young core type vet like a Faried. I doubt Ted would allow him to take on aging longterm salary with his contract up.

Just finished watching the second half. That was March/April 2012 Seraphin tonight. He dominated Drummond offensively and on the glass. He also played some good D and blocked/contested several shots against Drummond and Monroe. Two plays also show me that he is in better shape this season than in last. I've never seen Kevin get as high as he did for the alley-oop, and when he beat Detroit down floor, established quick position, and shot a hook over Drummind before he could get set. Now he has to do it again, otherwise it was meaningless....

[Knighthonor]

I think w/o knowing what Otto can provide, we're a 35 win team. We're the same team as last year, with the only real difference being better healthy and continued maturation from Wall/Beal, and the addition or Al Harrington to the bench. If GR3 steps up, that could = a couple extra wins but until I see how Wittman uses him I won't count on it. The problem is we're going to be a pretty good home team, but we're going to continue to suck on the road. Why? Because we can't score. Having Ariza in the starting lineup throwing up bricks is going to dig us soo many holes early in games. And I see what they're trying to do w/ Webster on the 2nd team,but since he can't create his own shot that idea doesn't work either. Signing a Nate Robinson would have addressed this issue. Ernie is going to have to make a move. That's why I like the idea of pursuing Faried. He'll add energy/ toughness/ and will get our inept road offense additional possessions.

Again I ask, why you Wizards fans with this view are afraid of tanking?

The staff can mix things up and experiment when there is a tank in mind.

I just explained this in another post, but tanking is not possible. How do you propose we tank? Make up an injury for Wall and sit him out the entire season?

You might want to see us have another bottom 10 year so we can get one more high draft pick before we "compete," but it's just not possible.

Wizard's front court is shot. Bench Nene like usually for sooreness in his legs.

Dont let Webster Start, and change up the line up. they could even do a trade that can cause more tanking for talent.

Wall isnt going to be 100% all the time.

Package a few players for a late first rounder could also boost trade value in the draft for moving up if needed. so many ways to tank. look around the league for other examples of teams tanking who were well played teams themselves, much better than Wizards.

[veji1]

fans that want to tank don't realize that tanking is a one shot thing. One cannot keep on tanking. Drafting a great player and tanking during his first year in the NBA while he learns the rope, great, but tanking regularly for 4/5 years is a cancer, it eats at a team, it means players never really develop the competitive winning attitude, it means that players tend not to care anymore, everybody loses focus, etc...

Tanking is a very very very risky strategy and one that is not appropriate anymore for this team, at least at the beginning of the season. Look at the player Wall is, he will not develop more by tanking. Beal needs to play to win to developp, etc... Sure like many other teams, you assess the situation in february, if the team is bad and has a poor record, than tanking at the end of the season is legitimate. But tanking from the start is a recipe for losing your best players, failing at developping your young ones etc...

Repeated tanking is cancer for a team, its identity, its fan base, its culture. Don't do it, just don't.

[deneem4]

All this tank talk means 1 thing...

nene has to go....

Were not tanking because our backcourt its cause our frontcourt...and thts where nene leads...okafot is injured but even if healthy we dont expect much from him other than defense...when that trade happened for him and ariza no one liked it...no once expected him to become our defensive anchor and us to be a top defensive team...people still call it on3 of the dumbest trades...but no one scrutinize the nene for mcgee trade...

Now looks years later...were missing 1 player from last year, having thr same team tht said if healthy can mske the playoffs...im not even including otto because hes suppose to come along slow regardless hes not nba ready yet we didnt draft him to mske an instant impavt...right??? Thats y we resigned webster???

Now since otto out, he was the difference maker were missing...wtf?
Pick an excuse stick with it

Our team suck cause we cant keep insync rotations, do you see why the bulls bench was soo good...they all played together, when subs came in it was usually a 5man swap..

The thunder played with the same 5 starters before harden got trades, even though there was more effective lineups, those 5 knew eexactly what to expect and how each other played...and yes im speaking on the best teams on the league csuse theres no reason to model yourself after a weak ****

If we cant trade nene then atleast dont start him..until okafor gets back, because from now until then hes gonna be in and out of games with injuries..

.il rather start jan and seraphin , and I been saying tht for the longest, jan is our hustle guy seraphin is our post option..atleast we know they'll be ready every night and who knows having a permanent lineup spot might do wonders and if it dont.. U kno nene wont come off the bench and do nothing...him and maynor can slow down the game and get webster and harrington open shots, keep the paint secure...

Tanking is 100% out the question...not with 3 top 3 picks a lockdown defender and a top 10 3pt shooter and a suppose to be top all around big man...

We have good assets in nene ariza... so we utilize those assets and become a better team...not make our self a worser team to get potential assets...thts dumb...

[rockymac52]

All this tank talk means 1 thing...

nene has to go....

Were not tanking because our backcourt its cause our frontcourt...and thts where nene leads...okafot is injured but even if healthy we dont expect much from him other than defense...when that trade happened for him and ariza no one liked it...no once expected him to become our defensive anchor and us to be a top defensive team...people still call it on3 of the dumbest trades...but no one scrutinize the nene for mcgee trade...

Now looks years later...were missing 1 player from last year, having thr same team tht said if healthy can mske the playoffs...im not even including otto because hes suppose to come along slow regardless hes not nba ready yet we didnt draft him to mske an instant impavt...right??? Thats y we resigned webster???

Now since otto out, he was the difference maker were missing...wtf?
Pick an excuse stick with it

Our team suck cause we cant keep insync rotations, do you see why the bulls bench was soo good...they all played together, when subs came in it was usually a 5man swap..

The thunder played with the same 5 starters before harden got trades, even though there was more effective lineups, those 5 knew eexactly what to expect and how each other played...and yes im speaking on the best teams on the league csuse theres no reason to model yourself after a weak ****

If we cant trade nene then atleast dont start him..until okafor gets back, because from now until then hes gonna be in and out of games with injuries..

.il rather start jan and seraphin , and I been saying tht for the longest, jan is our hustle guy seraphin is our post option..atleast we know they'll be ready every night and who knows having a permanent lineup spot might do wonders and if it dont.. U kno nene wont come off the bench and do nothing...him and maynor can slow down the game and get webster and harrington open shots, keep the paint secure...

Tanking is 100% out the question...not with 3 top 3 picks a lockdown defender and a top 10 3pt shooter and a suppose to be top all around big man...

We have good assets in nene ariza... so we utilize those assets and become a better team...not make our self a worser team to get potential assets...thts dumb...

The irony of that last sentence is too much for me to handle right now hahaha.

But as for your argument, it makes no sense. You contradicted yourself several times, so I'm honestly not even sure which side you were arguing for.

Is your plan to trade Nene in order to become a better team? If it was that easy, we'd do it. At the moment, if we're trading Nene, we're almost definitely getting a lesser player in return because of Nene's contract length/size and his health. And since you agree we have an issue with front court depth, why are you advocating trading away the ONLY good big man we still have? Illogical.

[deneem4]

All this tank talk means 1 thing...

nene has to go....

Were not tanking because our backcourt its cause our frontcourt...and thts where nene leads...okafot is injured but even if healthy we dont expect much from him other than defense...when that trade happened for him and ariza no one liked it...no once expected him to become our defensive anchor and us to be a top defensive team...people still call it on3 of the dumbest trades...but no one scrutinize the nene for mcgee trade...

Now looks years later...were missing 1 player from last year, having thr same team tht said if healthy can mske the playoffs...im not even including otto because hes suppose to come along slow regardless hes not nba ready yet we didnt draft him to mske an instant impavt...right??? Thats y we resigned webster???

Now since otto out, he was the difference maker were missing...wtf?
Pick an excuse stick with it

Our team suck cause we cant keep insync rotations, do you see why the bulls bench was soo good...they all played together, when subs came in it was usually a 5man swap..

The thunder played with the same 5 starters before harden got trades, even though there was more effective lineups, those 5 knew eexactly what to expect and how each other played...and yes im speaking on the best teams on the league csuse theres no reason to model yourself after a weak ****

If we cant trade nene then atleast dont start him..until okafor gets back, because from now until then hes gonna be in and out of games with injuries..

.il rather start jan and seraphin , and I been saying tht for the longest, jan is our hustle guy seraphin is our post option..atleast we know they'll be ready every night and who knows having a permanent lineup spot might do wonders and if it dont.. U kno nene wont come off the bench and do nothing...him and maynor can slow down the game and get webster and harrington open shots, keep the paint secure...

Tanking is 100% out the question...not with 3 top 3 picks a lockdown defender and a top 10 3pt shooter and a suppose to be top all around big man...

We have good assets in nene ariza... so we utilize those assets and become a better team...not make our self a worser team to get potential assets...thts dumb...

The irony of that last sentence is too much for me to handle right now hahaha.

But as for your argument, it makes no sense. You contradicted yourself several times, so I'm honestly not even sure which side you were arguing for.

Is your plan to trade Nene in order to become a better team? If it was that easy, we'd do it. At the moment, if we're trading Nene, we're almost definitely getting a lesser player in return because of Nene's contract length/size and his health. And since you agree we have an issue with front court depth, why are you advocating trading away the ONLY good big man we still have? Illogical.

because hes not good enough
hes not reliable to win games
and he not consistent

if we're not scoring on the permiter you look at beal
if we're not scoring in the paint u look at nene
that's what he gets paid to do, thts his job...
how do u give excuses for an established vet giving you mediocre play?
what kind of standard is tht setting for the younger players?
at half time if seraphin and vesley isn't playing well how can u tell them to play better than nene?

if nene is only good for 25mins giving us 12/7/3 thts not good enough, especially since hes the 2nd highest paid player on our roster..
were an up and coming team trying to make the playoffs, tht type of player isn't useful to us, our roster isn't tht rounded especially with okafor out, nene didn't say he'll step up he actually said he wants to play less
if nene don't want to bang with the centers because he says theyre too rough how can u tell the paper thin vesley to go do it?

and yes I want to trade nene, il rather take humpries, atleast you know he can give you 30+mins and wont be in and out the lineup...

there is a lot of trade scenarios, we'll maybe have to throw in a pick but oh well, atleast we get rid of tht hideous contract..it wont be hard to trade nene, were jus not shopping him...

we want to hold on to a 30yrs+ 13mil big man with multiple injuries tht gives us 25min 12/7/3 a night because hes a good player, hes our best post player...

its a lot of teams tanking and rebuilding take advantage before nene claims injured again, so wht we lose a pick we either get cap space or players tht will actually play a full game..win/win....besides were not seeing anymore top 5 picks and forward/center development team has been good to us...

[rockymac52]

Humphries has only played more than 70 games once in his 9 year career. I don't think it's fair to say he's all that durable or reliable. Humphries has also only averaged more than 20 minutes per game twice in his 9 year career. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say he's going to give you 30+ minutes a night.

I actually like Humphries as a player, mostly because I think he's criminally underrated because he's so easy to hate after the Kardashian nonsense. I wouldn't mind acquiring him via trade this year, especially since he's expiring. I'd also be open to signing him to a much smaller contract this summer depending on who else we're going after, maybe something like 2 years $8 million total.

But give up Nene for one season of Humphries? No thanks. Adding our draft pick in makes it absolute nonsense. I can at least understand the perspective that Nene's contract is too big compared to his talent and he's always injured, so we should trade him for an expiring contract, but I don't agree with that notion.

Nene may have his flaws, and our front court might be a mess at the moment, but panicking and overreacting by trading him (and a pick) away for an expiring contract would be a huge mistake.

Do you really think our team would be better this season with Kris Humphries as our best big man? I mean, come ON.

[deneem4]

Humphries has only played more than 70 games once in his 9 year career. I don't think it's fair to say he's all that durable or reliable. Humphries has also only averaged more than 20 minutes per game twice in his 9 year career. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say he's going to give you 30+ minutes a night.

I actually like Humphries as a player, mostly because I think he's criminally underrated because he's so easy to hate after the Kardashian nonsense. I wouldn't mind acquiring him via trade this year, especially since he's expiring. I'd also be open to signing him to a much smaller contract this summer depending on who else we're going after, maybe something like 2 years $8 million total.

But give up Nene for one season of Humphries? No thanks. Adding our draft pick in makes it absolute nonsense. I can at least understand the perspective that Nene's contract is too big compared to his talent and he's always injured, so we should trade him for an expiring contract, but I don't agree with that notion.

Nene may have his flaws, and our front court might be a mess at the moment, but panicking and overreacting by trading him (and a pick) away for an expiring contract would be a huge mistake.

Do you really think our team would be better this season with Kris Humphries as our best big man? I mean, come ON.

the point wasn't about trading for humpries I used him as an example of players we can trade for...and it don't matter how we'll be this season if we can go into nxt season with nene okafor and ariza off the books while adding no other contracts...thts 35mil in cap space...fck this season...

the point I was making is nene isn't a good fit for us and he can be shopped, and moving him wont make us any worse..moving nene isn't a mistake its a strong coaching move, moving faried because u want a slower offense is a mistake, moving nene cause u don't want to pay for an injury prone mediocre big man is smart

[closg00]

Seraphin scored 10 of his 14 points in the fourth quarter, showcasing his offensive repertoire with jump hooks and spot-up jumpers. But he also fought hard on defense, grabbed rebounds and even blocked a shot. The effort completed a turnaround that began after veteran Al Harrington screamed at Seraphin during a timeout in the first half for playing soft.

“He’s got to be tougher, man. I just didn’t like the way they was in there pushing us around like that. I just begged him to play a lot harder and a lot tougher,” said Harrington, who was informed that he would get the night off just before tip-off. “He did a good job. That’s one thing he can do is score the basketball. The biggest thing is just to get him going. I’m happy with the way he responded. He took his time in the post. He really dominated his matchup.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... ess-start/

Harrington lighting a fire under Seraphin, being a banging PF/C just doesn't come naturally to Kevin.

[dandridge 10]

With the front court being thin at the Center position, tanking is a possibility. This team isn't good enough to get into the postseason without Okafor for a good stretch. Wall doesn't show up to every game either.

The perfect storm is for them to be healthy and lose a lot to get EG fired. We need him gone before he damages whatever moves can be made for the rest of this decade.

Although I agree EG needs to go, I don't see how you can think that scenario would be a perfect storm. If we are healthy and losing a lot, that will mean that players like Wall, Beal and Webster, etc. are not nearly as good as we thought. I don't see that as a good scenario. I agree with the other posters that tanking, without injuries to our core player, is unrealistic. If it becomes reality, the Wiz have much bigger problems than just EG.

[rockymac52]

With the front court being thin at the Center position, tanking is a possibility. This team isn't good enough to get into the postseason without Okafor for a good stretch. Wall doesn't show up to every game either.

The perfect storm is for them to be healthy and lose a lot to get EG fired. We need him gone before he damages whatever moves can be made for the rest of this decade.

Although I agree EG needs to go, I don't see how you can think that scenario would be a perfect storm. If we are healthy and losing a lot, that will mean that players like Wall, Beal and Webster, etc. are not nearly as good as we thought. I don't see that as a good scenario. I agree with the other posters that tanking, without injuries to our core player, is unrealistic. If it become reality, the Wiz have much bigger problems than just EG.

Exactly. If that's how this season plays out, Ernie is a goner, and while that might make a lot of you happy, his replacement isn't necessarily any better, and more importantly, it means that our core players simply aren't good enough to be competitive. If that's the case, then guess what our new GM's first task is going to be? Blowing it up and hitting the reset button again (although we'd probably keep at least one of Wall and Beal).

[Dat2U]

With the front court being thin at the Center position, tanking is a possibility. This team isn't good enough to get into the postseason without Okafor for a good stretch. Wall doesn't show up to every game either.

The perfect storm is for them to be healthy and lose a lot to get EG fired. We need him gone before he damages whatever moves can be made for the rest of this decade.

Although I agree EG needs to go, I don't see how you can think that scenario would be a perfect storm. If we are healthy and losing a lot, that will mean that players like Wall, Beal and Webster, etc. are not nearly as good as we thought. I don't see that as a good scenario. I agree with the other posters that tanking, without injuries to our core player, is unrealistic. If it becomes reality, the Wiz have much bigger problems than just EG.

I'm probably in the minority in saying this, but nothing is bigger than the EG problem. I'd rather have our core not be as good as thought or hoped than live through another 4 or 5 years of .500 ball at best with a handful of quality players (I'm not sure EG is even capable of building a squad capable of even accomplishing that middlin' goal).

A very good GM can makeover a franchise and truly change the fortunes of a franchise. It's much harder for one or two players to do the same, especially when their talent is undermined by what the current GM surrounds them with (old broken down vets and kids that cannot play). I'd rather see Beal & Wall be disappointments (as painful as that would be) which could potentially lead us to find the next Masai Ujiri who could actually build a quality team that could contend in a few years.

[closg00]

+1 Dat, mediocrity forever until Grunfeld is fired.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

With the front court being thin at the Center position, tanking is a possibility. This team isn't good enough to get into the postseason without Okafor for a good stretch. Wall doesn't show up to every game either.

The perfect storm is for them to be healthy and lose a lot to get EG fired. We need him gone before he damages whatever moves can be made for the rest of this decade.

Although I agree EG needs to go, I don't see how you can think that scenario would be a perfect storm. If we are healthy and losing a lot, that will mean that players like Wall, Beal and Webster, etc. are not nearly as good as we thought. I don't see that as a good scenario. I agree with the other posters that tanking, without injuries to our core player, is unrealistic. If it becomes reality, the Wiz have much bigger problems than just EG.

I'm probably in the minority in saying this, but nothing is bigger than the EG problem. I'd rather have our core not be as good as thought or hoped than live through another 4 or 5 years of .500 ball at best with a handful of quality players (I'm not sure EG is even capable of building a squad capable of even accomplishing that middlin' goal).

A very good GM can makeover a franchise and truly change the fortunes of a franchise. It's much harder for one or two players to do the same, especially when their talent is undermined by what the current GM surrounds them with (old broken down vets and kids that cannot play). I'd rather see Beal & Wall be disappointments (as painful as that would be) which could potentially lead us to find the next Masai Ujiri who could actually build a quality team that could contend in a few years.

I'm right in that minority with you, Dat. I get sick of drafts where Ted/EG go for an Ernie's kid project, or else they go for a local player, who they think will put butts in the seats, (a la Susan O'Malley). This past draft I said draft Olynyk and get a bunch of other good stuff in a trade down. Guess what?

NBA GMs vote Olynyk best draft steal

In a poll of 30 general managers (the GMs could not vote for their own team or personnel), the Celtics emerged as winners on Draft Night in which they acquired Kelly Olynyk from the Dallas Mavericks at the 13th pick. Olynyk was voted the biggest steal at his draft selection with 27.6 percent of the votes. He also ranked fifth in voting for the rookie who will be the best player in five years (6.7 percent).

Ernie has had years and years and more years to be so consistently bad. Last year he had a real nice year but his pattern is very, very predictable. He's going to pay for guys like Maynor and as others have said, EG plays checkers as guys like Morey play 3-D chess.

The Wizards almost certainly upgrade if they switch GMs. Conceivably, they could do worse, but I don't really see how by replacing EG.

Ted's a billionaire but I think the man would do well to just ask me and he'd be way better off than he has been. I don't know what I'm really better at in life more than guessing what the Wizards should do next.

What the man should do is hire Troy Weaver. Keep Grunfeld in a special capacity, even with a title/promotion as a consultant. Just like Rod Thorn. Hire Nivek in some capacity. Throw me relative chump change 75K plus, just for my expertise, as some sort of scouting consultant--until they find out I'm worth a lot more. Change my life and I promise they'll win a ton of games for years to come. I am that good. Some of you guys are better, but none more deserving IMO.

This stuff we do on this site is SO MUCH BETTER than what the Wizards' GM and scouting have done in the past. No offense, Tommy Shepard and others, but I think I'm better than all of you guys simply because God's gifted me.

Guys like DANNYLANDOVER and others have correctly picked up on emotional posts, but the bottom line is just check the record over time. Am I generally right?

[verbal8]

What the man should do is hire Troy Weaver. Keep Grunfeld in a special capacity, even with a title/promotion as a consultant. Just like Rod Thorn. Hire Nivek in some capacity. Throw me relative chump change 75K plus, just for my expertise, as some sort of scouting consultant--until they find out I'm worth a lot more. Change my life and I promise they'll win a ton of games for years to come. I am that good. Some of you guys are better, but none more deserving IMO.

Even if CCJ being hired isn't announce we will be able to tell if it happens. If we see "Wizards sign FA Guard Morris Almond" in the NBA transactions, we will know that CCJ is in the front office.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

What the man should do is hire Troy Weaver. Keep Grunfeld in a special capacity, even with a title/promotion as a consultant. Just like Rod Thorn. Hire Nivek in some capacity. Throw me relative chump change 75K plus, just for my expertise, as some sort of scouting consultant--until they find out I'm worth a lot more. Change my life and I promise they'll win a ton of games for years to come. I am that good. Some of you guys are better, but none more deserving IMO.

Even if CCJ being hired isn't announce we will be able to tell if it happens. If we see "Wizards sign FA Guard Morris Almond" in the NBA transactions, we will know that CCJ is in the front office.

lol and Vesely given a max contract...just kidding CCJ

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What the man should do is hire Troy Weaver. Keep Grunfeld in a special capacity, even with a title/promotion as a consultant. Just like Rod Thorn. Hire Nivek in some capacity. Throw me relative chump change 75K plus, just for my expertise, as some sort of scouting consultant--until they find out I'm worth a lot more. Change my life and I promise they'll win a ton of games for years to come. I am that good. Some of you guys are better, but none more deserving IMO.

Even if CCJ being hired isn't announce we will be able to tell if it happens. If we see "Wizards sign FA Guard Morris Almond" in the NBA transactions, we will know that CCJ is in the front office.

I almost fainted when they actually did something I suggested.

Almond never lost as a Wizard and he had the distinction of having a freakishly good +/- in his 66 minutes of PT with the Wizards. Check out 5-Man Units, Win % for a freaky stat line:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS5.HTM

If you notice, the Wizards FG% and FG% allowed were both great with Almond on the floor as opposed to off. In those few games, I thought he did well enough.