WAS at DET Preseason Game Thread

[tontoz]

I agree that this team is going nowhere as long as EG is here. I think most GMs have at least one part of their job that they do well but EG sucks across the board.

[MJG]

Count me in with the "EG is the worst problem" camp. I'd be down with pretty much anything that gets him fired, as difficult as some of those things may be. My enthusiasm for this franchise is a dim flicker at best nowadays, and it's because as long as EG is running things, I have no hope for us. I mean, good lord, this is someone whose goal is mediocrity, .500 ball and an 8th seed, and year after year, doesn't even come within spitting distance of that. Ugh.

[jivelikenice]

I don't have much faith in Ernie, but I think he accidently has built a good foundation here that a good gm can quickly turn into a playoff contender. I'd be leery allowing him to make long-term decisions in his last yr. I'm fine with a deal for a Faried type since he's a long-term piece, or a deal for a Gortat or Hawes type since they're rentals who shouldn't cost a lot, but beyond that I'd be worried. Whats frustrating is I liked both draft picks and I liked the Al Harrington signing. But why re-sign Marterll to play behind Ariza and why sign Maynor on the first day of FA? We're being forced to play Webster on the second unit because we need scoring. That wouldn't be an issue had we gone out and gotten a Nate Robinson type. Furthermore, Martell can't create his own shot so he's looked terrible on the second team. Now we have Ariza running with the 1's which is ok at home where he shot 44% last year, but is terrible for us when we're on the road where he shot 39%. We're always going to start off slow on the road because we CAN'T SCORE and Ariza adds to that issue. We now have two non-shooters or scorers in the starting lineup in Ariza and Booker. 35 wins w/o a move for another big and the Ariza in the starting lineup. Not acceptable.

[GhostsOfGil]

What the man should do is hire Troy Weaver. Keep Grunfeld in a special capacity, even with a title/promotion as a consultant. Just like Rod Thorn. Hire Nivek in some capacity. Throw me relative chump change 75K plus, just for my expertise, as some sort of scouting consultant--until they find out I'm worth a lot more. Change my life and I promise they'll win a ton of games for years to come. I am that good. Some of you guys are better, but none more deserving IMO.

Even if CCJ being hired isn't announce we will be able to tell if it happens. If we see "Wizards sign FA Guard Morris Almond" in the NBA transactions, we will know that CCJ is in the front office.

I almost fainted when they actually did something I suggested.

Almond never lost as a Wizard and he had the distinction of having a freakishly good +/- in his 66 minutes of PT with the Wizards. Check out 5-Man Units, Win % for a freaky stat line:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS5.HTM

If you notice, the Wizards FG% and FG% allowed were both great with Almond on the floor as opposed to off. In those few games, I thought he did well enough.

This should be your sig

[Upper Decker]

With the front court being thin at the Center position, tanking is a possibility. This team isn't good enough to get into the postseason without Okafor for a good stretch. Wall doesn't show up to every game either.

The perfect storm is for them to be healthy and lose a lot to get EG fired. We need him gone before he damages whatever moves can be made for the rest of this decade.

Although I agree EG needs to go, I don't see how you can think that scenario would be a perfect storm. If we are healthy and losing a lot, that will mean that players like Wall, Beal and Webster, etc. are not nearly as good as we thought. I don't see that as a good scenario. I agree with the other posters that tanking, without injuries to our core player, is unrealistic. If it becomes reality, the Wiz have much bigger problems than just EG.

I'm probably in the minority in saying this, but nothing is bigger than the EG problem. I'd rather have our core not be as good as thought or hoped than live through another 4 or 5 years of .500 ball at best with a handful of quality players (I'm not sure EG is even capable of building a squad capable of even accomplishing that middlin' goal).

A very good GM can makeover a franchise and truly change the fortunes of a franchise. It's much harder for one or two players to do the same, especially when their talent is undermined by what the current GM surrounds them with (old broken down vets and kids that cannot play). I'd rather see Beal & Wall be disappointments (as painful as that would be) which could potentially lead us to find the next Masai Ujiri who could actually build a quality team that could contend in a few years.

I think you can have you're cake and eat it too on this one, Dat. Beyond Wall and Beal the team is unimaginably terrible. I like Nene, but I have no faith he'll stay healthy, nor do I think he'll play enough minutes each game to matter. In a perfect world Webster and Ariza are valuable, but they'll be asked to do too much and simply can't handle it.

For the better part of the year the team will be Wall + Beal and 7 other guys who SHOULD NOT BE ON AN NBA ROSTER. No one can win in those circumstances. Hell, Lebron couldn't elevate this team by himself. Kevin Love is widely considered the best PF in the game and his teams have stunk year after year. I can easily invision a scenario where Wall plays at All-NBA level and Beal is borderline All-Star level, but this team barely wins 30 games.

It's also likely that Beal or Wall get injured for a portion of the season. I predict the Wizards go 0'fer in games where Wall or Beal are out.

[dandridge 10]

With the front court being thin at the Center position, tanking is a possibility. This team isn't good enough to get into the postseason without Okafor for a good stretch. Wall doesn't show up to every game either.

The perfect storm is for them to be healthy and lose a lot to get EG fired. We need him gone before he damages whatever moves can be made for the rest of this decade.

Although I agree EG needs to go, I don't see how you can think that scenario would be a perfect storm. If we are healthy and losing a lot, that will mean that players like Wall, Beal and Webster, etc. are not nearly as good as we thought. I don't see that as a good scenario. I agree with the other posters that tanking, without injuries to our core player, is unrealistic. If it becomes reality, the Wiz have much bigger problems than just EG.

I'm probably in the minority in saying this, but nothing is bigger than the EG problem. I'd rather have our core not be as good as thought or hoped than live through another 4 or 5 years of .500 ball at best with a handful of quality players (I'm not sure EG is even capable of building a squad capable of even accomplishing that middlin' goal).

A very good GM can makeover a franchise and truly change the fortunes of a franchise. It's much harder for one or two players to do the same, especially when their talent is undermined by what the current GM surrounds them with (old broken down vets and kids that cannot play). I'd rather see Beal & Wall be disappointments (as painful as that would be) which could potentially lead us to find the next Masai Ujiri who could actually build a quality team that could contend in a few years.

I don't think you are a minority when it comes to believing EG is the biggest problem. I think the majority believes it, including I. I just don't think we can afford for both Wall and Beal to be disappointments, even if it will guarantee us a new GM (who BTW, we don't know how much of an improvement over EG he will be). We need at least some building blocks for the new GM.

In any event, I don't think we need Wall and Beal to suck this year for EG to be canned. Even with those two at their best, it is becoming even more apparent that even if everyone is healthy except Oakafor this year, that this team is not going to make the playoffs. Our frontcourt, except for Nene, is just that bad and I don't expect Nene playing major minutes this year. Given that Ted has already said that he expects the playoffs this year, even with injuries, the bar has been set. I just don't think EG has enough horses (or will be able to get enough horses) to get over that bar, and because of that, I think he will not be resigned at the end of the season.

[jivelikenice]

^Agree, a 35 win non playoff season = Ernie gone.

[Knighthonor]

Although I agree EG needs to go, I don't see how you can think that scenario would be a perfect storm. If we are healthy and losing a lot, that will mean that players like Wall, Beal and Webster, etc. are not nearly as good as we thought. I don't see that as a good scenario. I agree with the other posters that tanking, without injuries to our core player, is unrealistic. If it becomes reality, the Wiz have much bigger problems than just EG.

I'm probably in the minority in saying this, but nothing is bigger than the EG problem. I'd rather have our core not be as good as thought or hoped than live through another 4 or 5 years of .500 ball at best with a handful of quality players (I'm not sure EG is even capable of building a squad capable of even accomplishing that middlin' goal).

A very good GM can makeover a franchise and truly change the fortunes of a franchise. It's much harder for one or two players to do the same, especially when their talent is undermined by what the current GM surrounds them with (old broken down vets and kids that cannot play). I'd rather see Beal & Wall be disappointments (as painful as that would be) which could potentially lead us to find the next Masai Ujiri who could actually build a quality team that could contend in a few years.

I don't think you are a minority when it comes to believing EG is the biggest problem. I think the majority believes it, including I. I just don't think we can afford for both Wall and Beal to be disappointments, even if it will guarantee us a new GM (who BTW, we don't know how much of an improvement over EG he will be). We need at least some building blocks for the new GM.

In any event, I don't think we need Wall and Beal to suck this year for EG to be canned. Even with those two at their best, it is becoming even more apparent that even if everyone is healthy except Oakafor this year, that this team is not going to make the playoffs. Our frontcourt, except for Nene, is just that bad and I don't expect Nene playing major minutes this year. Given that Ted has already said that he expects the playoffs this year, even with injuries, the bar has been set. I just don't think EG has enough horses (or will be able to get enough horses) to get over that bar, and because of that, I think he will not be resigned at the end of the season.

So what the heck is the point of trying to go for a win season rather than tank? Doesn't make sense to continue to push for a playoff when they about to lose a lot of good /decent talent already here, and they have an upcoming draft that many GMs on teams better than the Wizards last season are tanking for.
Stupid GM would push for a win season like his. You turn into the Bucks basically. Won't go anywhere beyond round 1 in the playoffs at max.

[Knighthonor]

What the man should do is hire Troy Weaver. Keep Grunfeld in a special capacity, even with a title/promotion as a consultant. Just like Rod Thorn. Hire Nivek in some capacity. Throw me relative chump change 75K plus, just for my expertise, as some sort of scouting consultant--until they find out I'm worth a lot more. Change my life and I promise they'll win a ton of games for years to come. I am that good. Some of you guys are better, but none more deserving IMO.

Even if CCJ being hired isn't announce we will be able to tell if it happens. If we see "Wizards sign FA Guard Morris Almond" in the NBA transactions, we will know that CCJ is in the front office.

I almost fainted when they actually did something I suggested.

Almond never lost as a Wizard and he had the distinction of having a freakishly good +/- in his 66 minutes of PT with the Wizards. Check out 5-Man Units, Win % for a freaky stat line:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS5.HTM

If you notice, the Wizards FG% and FG% allowed were both great with Almond on the floor as opposed to off. In those few games, I thought he did well enough.

You should make a large detailed post in the draft thread pointing out some key talent steals.

I enjoy reading your draft advice, despite the public view of you here.

[gesa2]

I think the public view of CCJ is way more positive than negative. He's just been around here long enough that we've all told him we love him already.

[verbal8]

I think the public view of CCJ is way more positive than negative. He's just been around here long enough that we've all told him we love him already.

Definitely positive.

He is a bit of a target for friendly ribbing, because he has a long history of very strong and often unconventional player picks.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What the man should do is hire Troy Weaver. Keep Grunfeld in a special capacity, even with a title/promotion as a consultant. Just like Rod Thorn. Hire Nivek in some capacity. Throw me relative chump change 75K plus, just for my expertise, as some sort of scouting consultant--until they find out I'm worth a lot more. Change my life and I promise they'll win a ton of games for years to come. I am that good. Some of you guys are better, but none more deserving IMO.

Even if CCJ being hired isn't announce we will be able to tell if it happens. If we see "Wizards sign FA Guard Morris Almond" in the NBA transactions, we will know that CCJ is in the front office.

lol and Vesely given a max contract...just kidding CCJ

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU[/youtube]

Your posts are too good to ignore...

I kept unblocking and reading your responses. Good stuff, even if my delicate feelings were bruised, DANNY.

You can be my hater because you're pretty high level with it. Not as brutal as a mad tontoz -- I don't EVER want him mad at me again. That dude gets goes HAM when he's mad. (You're a great poster IMO, tontoz, but not one I want mad at me). I can't take the hate to that level for that long any more. Impressive hate. Very impressive. I respect that but can't stay in the kitchen that long these days.

Over the past dozen years plus, I've only used ignore 5 or 6 times. Only one poster was truly on the list. The rest had real objectionable/way out screen names with nothing good at all about their posts. That's not you, DANNYLANDOVER. You're better than that by a mile.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Oh ... not the max for Vesely, but I think he's a player that generally doesn't hurt a team as long as there's good players around him. I think he's heading back to Europe as soon as he can, but I don't think he's terrible at all.

Vesely would get token minutes as a reserve even on a good team like OKC or Miami.

He sucks for #6 pick, but even yesterday I noticed he was picking up pressure defense 3/4 of the court at 7 feet tall. He can be a disruptive, open court defender (such as when he picked off the lob pass against the Pistons) and he finishes well in transition. He sets screens well, shows well and recovers well in pick and roll, and he's a good post passer. He's a team guy with a high BBIQ. Vesely's a good "bad" player, if that makes any sense at all.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if teams try to ask for JV in larger deals with the Wizards. Not a max contract, DANNY, but I do have a weird liking for Vesely.

*** My 13-year old son said just yesterday: "Dad, you're way too hard on Seraphin but you like Vesely way too much." ***

Can't put him ignore and that kid eats more than I do.

[jivelikenice]

^Agreed. A team like Chicago could get good use out of him IMO. Also being in a city where he's not burdened with his draft slot will help him. For us, its just not a fit. Even when he does roll to the lane he rarely gets the ball because of his teamates distrust, and I can't totally blame them.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

^Agreed. A team like Chicago could get good use out of him IMO. Also being in a city where he's not burdened with his draft slot will help him. For us, its just not a fit. Even when he does roll to the lane he rarely gets the ball because of his teamates distrust, and I can't totally blame them.

True, but I do blame them.

This is also why I wanted them to draft Olynyk and why I think Pau would be an excellent trade pickup for the Wizards. Instant trust/rapport and some useful synergy with Vesely.

Stats don't back me up on this, but Vesely seems to me to really play well with Seraphin. Other teammates don't seem to flow as well with Jan.

[GhostsOfGil]

^ hilarious sig. He and Singleton were two guys I think they let slip away.

[DCZards]

^Agreed. A team like Chicago could get good use out of him IMO. Also being in a city where he's not burdened with his draft slot will help him. For us, its just not a fit. Even when he does roll to the lane he rarely gets the ball because of his teamates distrust, and I can't totally blame them.

There's no doubt that Ves would get a lot more love on this board if it were not for the fact that he was drafted so high. He has shown that he was not worthy of being the 6th pick. He does do some good things on the court, expecially on the boards and on the defensive end. With his size, athleticism and high bball IQ, Ves has the potential to contribute to a winning situation. I still think it can happen with the Zards.

[Brapman]

Pistons fan. Seems to me that you guys need a big man. Nene's a very fine player, but he's 31, so if you guys are building for something in the future, I can see the Wizards trading him this year.

Both teams will be evaluating their rosters, but I see a potential fit on a trade between our teams. Monroe and Beal.

These are two of the top young players in the league. And I think each of them could fit well on the other team. I'm not saying either team is looking to make a move, but for each team, the trade has some logic to support it. Perhaps it would look like Monroe and KCP for Beal and a pick.

[nuposse04]

Pistons fan. Seems to me that you guys need a big man. Nene's a very fine player, but he's 31, so if you guys are building for something in the future, I can see the Wizards trading him this year.

Both teams will be evaluating their rosters, but I see a potential fit on a trade between our teams. Monroe and Beal.

These are two of the top young players in the league. And I think each of them could fit well on the other team. I'm not saying either team is looking to make a move, but for each team, the trade has some logic to support it. Perhaps it would look like Monroe and KCP for Beal and a pick.

I know you mean well, but it will never happen. Monroe is a liability defensively and Beal is showing to have made monumental offensive strides. Any potential deal would have to be around Porter for Monroe. Beal is untouchable, especially for the caliber player Monroe currently is.

[Brapman]

Beal and Monroe are all-star caliber (but young) players. They are equivalent talents in this league.

Porter, IMO, has major disappointment/bust written all over him. A jack of all trades in college, but who isn't good enough at anything to be a factor in the NBA. There is no chance that the Pistons would move Monroe for him.

Now that said, while I get what you are saying about Monroe, know that he isn't that bad defensively, although he'll never make any all-defensive NBA teams. However, bigs in this league are worth more than SG's. That's why Monroe has the cachet Beal does in terms of value around the league. Finally, I acknowledge that I think Beal is the best young SG prospect in the league, aside from Harden I guess. He has the look of a great two way player. So, I'm not suggesting that this would be an easy trade from Washington's perspective. Trading a young great player, and a perfect compliment for Wall, would not be easy.

The Pistons have a GM who would trade his grandma in the right deal. Stackhouse for Rip, Chauncey to Denver, Knight for Jennings. From our perspective, if there's a trade for a player who's a better fit, Joe will make the deal. My question is about whether that makes sense for building your team in the future. I can totally get why you might say "no."