Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV

[tontoz]

speaking of MIA posters, w/e happened to AFM.

He is probably fighting depression given that his idol WizD isn't posting. If WizD returns, AFM will follow.

[nuposse04]

speaking of MIA posters, w/e happened to AFM.

He is probably fighting depression given that his idol WizD isn't posting. If WizD returns, AFM will follow.

blessed be the day the prodigal sons return.

[Upper Decker]

speaking of MIA posters, w/e happened to AFM.

And Hoopalotta? I miss the Sea Dogs signature WAY more than I should.

[deneem4]

I started with
nene/ariza/
for
pau

for the lakers
very realistic, kobe would love ariza back
nene can play pf while Kaman and hill fight the big bodies
laker become a contender

for us
that would make us legit contenders, especially when okafor comes back...
until then we start vesley and let gasol throw oops to him out the post
il even throw in a pick if lakers don't bite
*****end of realistic*****

then for fun... I got carried away, lol....
http://www1.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6342412

Do you even realize how much of a self-serving bias you have in most of your posts?

According to you, Pau Gasol is so much better than Nene that despite losing Ariza as well, we would still become contenders. BUT, you also claim that the Lakers become contenders by adding Nene and Ariza instead of just Gasol. So which is it? It can't be both. Pick a side.

"Until then we start Vesely and let Gasol throw oops to him out the post." .......

This is what I mean about deneem -- funny, yes. Take his ideas seriously? No.

******as I explained before******
Pau is tht much better than nene...pau can get hot and go for 30/14...nene sadly wont, not to mention pau can post high or low and pass out of double teams effectively (slashing vesley)...he can also defend and willing to defend against bigger centers until okafor comes back

nene is better on the lakers because how they play, remember how nene excelled back in Denver in tht fast paced offense...also ariza is the lakers golden child and kobe said hes one of the best defenders, being in tht environment might bring back the old ariza

and u sayin nene is better than a healthy pau but a healthy pau is in another league compared to a healthy nene...and neither are they old self but pau is healthier than nene right now and hes only 2 yrs older

I would definite include a pick, thts extreme cap space while being more than jus a 1st rd sweep considering we face knicks or brooklyn we might see the 2nd rd...okafor and gasol can go head to head with any big man combo in the league, and gasol has multiple championship experience...
***********
Not to mention pau lobbed passes up to dwight alot last yr...if u actually watch basketball you would know this...

So how about u explain why pau wont make us contenders...instead of jus saying im wrong

I guess ur the type of wizards fan would thought trading nene for mcgee was a good idea
The type of wizards fan that dont mind losing so we can get a high draft pick even though we cant develop players..
I actually watch basketball not stats and post game...I see tht ves sets more than pick in a game than nene set this season..I also see he waves his hand for the oop...ALOT...Not to mention beal webster and ariza likes corners so much, he dont give seraphin a legit iso to work on his post defender, instead, they allow theyre man to double team him, and dont get to a spot where he seraphin can kick back out for the easy jumper...its small things like the favt tht nene only moves vertically from the basket and stays in the paint, which makes it harder for wall to drive and essential leave our half court game with no weak side or strong side...I watch basketball not highlights, I understand situations, not stats...you on the hands must do not

[Ruzious]

I like you're thinking there. I think we'd still need to get a 3rd team involved, because Porter's not a good fit for Denver. The 3rd team would have to have a quality shooting guard that they wouldn't mind trading in exchange for Porter.

Dion Waiters and the Cavs, perhaps?

I think they're good with Bennett and they like Waiters, but this works talent-wise and pick-wise.

I could really see New Orleans offering up Austin Rivers to Denver to get Porter. This one would make me ill seeing how good the Pelicans would be with Otto and Anthony Davis years from now. NO really has no need for Rivers, since they've got Gordon back healthy and they just acquired Tyreke Evans.

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.ssf/ ... st_48.html

I bet Rivers gets traded, probably to the Clippers and his dad as coach, if nothing else.

I like Rocky's choice. Porter goes to Cleve, Waiters and a Cleve 1st and Vesely go to Denver, and Porter goes to Cleve. Bennett is much more 4 than 3. He can't run the court for significant minutes with opposing 3's.

I don't see Rivers as having much trade value.

[payitforward]

Do you even realize how much of a self-serving bias you have in most of your posts?

According to you, Pau Gasol is so much better than Nene that despite losing Ariza as well, we would still become contenders. BUT, you also claim that the Lakers become contenders by adding Nene and Ariza instead of just Gasol. So which is it? It can't be both. Pick a side.

"Until then we start Vesely and let Gasol throw oops to him out the post." .......

This is what I mean about deneem -- funny, yes. Take his ideas seriously? No.

******as I explained before******
Pau is tht much better than nene...pau can get hot and go for 30/14...nene sadly wont, not to mention pau can post high or low and pass out of double teams effectively (slashing vesley)...he can also defend and willing to defend against bigger centers until okafor comes back

nene is better on the lakers because how they play, remember how nene excelled back in Denver in tht fast paced offense...also ariza is the lakers golden child and kobe said hes one of the best defenders, being in tht environment might bring back the old ariza

and u sayin nene is better than a healthy pau but a healthy pau is in another league compared to a healthy nene...and neither are they old self but pau is healthier than nene right now and hes only 2 yrs older

I would definite include a pick, thts extreme cap space while being more than jus a 1st rd sweep considering we face knicks or brooklyn we might see the 2nd rd...okafor and gasol can go head to head with any big man combo in the league, and gasol has multiple championship experience...
***********
Not to mention pau lobbed passes up to dwight alot last yr...if u actually watch basketball you would know this...

So how about u explain why pau wont make us contenders...instead of jus saying im wrong

I guess ur the type of wizards fan would thought trading nene for mcgee was a good idea
The type of wizards fan that dont mind losing so we can get a high draft pick even though we cant develop players..
I actually watch basketball not stats and post game...I see tht ves sets more than pick in a game than nene set this season..I also see he waves his hand for the oop...ALOT...Not to mention beal webster and ariza likes corners so much, he dont give seraphin a legit iso to work on his post defender, instead, they allow theyre man to double team him, and dont get to a spot where he seraphin can kick back out for the easy jumper...its small things like the favt tht nene only moves vertically from the basket and stays in the paint, which makes it harder for wall to drive and essential leave our half court game with no weak side or strong side...I watch basketball not highlights, I understand situations, not stats...you on the hands must do not

A lot of people, you being one deneem, think basketball teams are the product of multiplication -- one guy makes another guy better. But, they're not; they're just addition. Add more better players and you get a better team. And there's plenty of research to demonstrate that this is true: in particular, guys tend to put up more or less the same numbers as they move from team to team (correcting for the overall career arc, where a guy usually gets better over his first few years, plays on a plateau for a while, then gets worse over a few years).

The "situations" you see don't, and can't, make the above untrue. Moreover, generalizing from such "situations" is a straight line towards inaccuracy and failure. For one thing, it leads to ideas like "we need 'shooting'" that get a team adding players because of one skill when, of course, you get *everything* they do when they're on the court. What they're good at, but also what they're bad at.

In the case of Pau Gasol, he's 33 and well into the last 20% of his NBA career. Acquire him, and you have a player who will be worse every year you have him. If you acquire him to pay his $20m salary this year and then let him go, you'd better not be giving up any young assets -- that seems obvious.

But... in the case of Nene -- he's not that different from Pau in this same sense! He's only a year younger, and he's in his 12th year in the league. His enormous salary will be a boat anchor soon. So, in fact, I'd trade e.g. him and Ariza for Pau Gasol in a NY minute! Ariza is gone at the end of the year anyway, so would Pau be (i.e. that would be my plan), and we've have dumped Nene's contract. Our entire cap situation would be transformed!

But, I wouldn't do it to make us contenders, that wouldn't happen. I'd do it because I thought we needed to reboot the rebuild -- which is exactly what I do think. Without quality *young* bigs, we are going nowhere as a team.

That brings up the Nene for McGee trade. In fact, no, I didn't like the trade when it happened (mostly because of Nene's contract). Then Nene played like a superstar in his 300 season-closing minutes that year -- so I concluded that I'd been wrong. If he was going to play at that level through the length of his contract, he'd be a bargain! But, no, he isn't. That's dreaming.

But I wouldn't trade quality young prospects for Pau or anyone who I plan to let go at the end of the year. *Sure* I'd include one or more of Seraphin, Singleton, and Vesely -- they're not on my list of quality young prospects -- but I wouldn't include Porter.

You have to measure a player's potential against what it costs you to find out about that potential. Porter is on a rookie contract. Neither you nor I know whether he's going to be any good or how good. We have no idea, and your data points are just crystal ball stuff. But it's relatively cheap to find out, so I wouldn't send him anywhere.

That's my take -- make sense to you?

[Nivek]

Preach!

[gwizz]

So DEN is trying to trade Faried... What can we give them to get Faried?! WANT.

[nuposse04]

Read a lot of twitter chatter over Omer for Milsap, that makes perfect sense for both sides IMO. Too bad we can't get in on that. Still its just twitter chatter, but the idea a simple Ariza swap would have got it done might be foolish. Other teams might drive up Omer's value.

[tontoz]

Memphis had 3 sub 30 win seasons while Pau was there. The most games they won with him was 50. He is a good player but there is no way that he is good enough to make this team a contender, especially since he already seems to be in decline.

[deneem4]

This is what I mean about deneem -- funny, yes. Take his ideas seriously? No.

******as I explained before******
Pau is tht much better than nene...pau can get hot and go for 30/14...nene sadly wont, not to mention pau can post high or low and pass out of double teams effectively (slashing vesley)...he can also defend and willing to defend against bigger centers until okafor comes back

nene is better on the lakers because how they play, remember how nene excelled back in Denver in tht fast paced offense...also ariza is the lakers golden child and kobe said hes one of the best defenders, being in tht environment might bring back the old ariza

and u sayin nene is better than a healthy pau but a healthy pau is in another league compared to a healthy nene...and neither are they old self but pau is healthier than nene right now and hes only 2 yrs older

I would definite include a pick, thts extreme cap space while being more than jus a 1st rd sweep considering we face knicks or brooklyn we might see the 2nd rd...okafor and gasol can go head to head with any big man combo in the league, and gasol has multiple championship experience...
***********
Not to mention pau lobbed passes up to dwight alot last yr...if u actually watch basketball you would know this...

So how about u explain why pau wont make us contenders...instead of jus saying im wrong

I guess ur the type of wizards fan would thought trading nene for mcgee was a good idea
The type of wizards fan that dont mind losing so we can get a high draft pick even though we cant develop players..
I actually watch basketball not stats and post game...I see tht ves sets more than pick in a game than nene set this season..I also see he waves his hand for the oop...ALOT...Not to mention beal webster and ariza likes corners so much, he dont give seraphin a legit iso to work on his post defender, instead, they allow theyre man to double team him, and dont get to a spot where he seraphin can kick back out for the easy jumper...its small things like the favt tht nene only moves vertically from the basket and stays in the paint, which makes it harder for wall to drive and essential leave our half court game with no weak side or strong side...I watch basketball not highlights, I understand situations, not stats...you on the hands must do not

A lot of people, you being one deneem, think basketball teams are the product of multiplication -- one guy makes another guy better. But, they're not; they're just addition. Add more better players and you get a better team. And there's plenty of research to demonstrate that this is true: in particular, guys tend to put up more or less the same numbers as they move from team to team (correcting for the overall career arc, where a guy usually gets better over his first few years, plays on a plateau for a while, then gets worse over a few years).

The "situations" you see don't, and can't, make the above untrue. Moreover, generalizing from such "situations" is a straight line towards inaccuracy and failure. For one thing, it leads to ideas like "we need 'shooting'" that get a team adding players because of one skill when, of course, you get *everything* they do when they're on the court. What they're good at, but also what they're bad at.

In the case of Pau Gasol, he's 33 and well into the last 20% of his NBA career. Acquire him, and you have a player who will be worse every year you have him. If you acquire him to pay his $20m salary this year and then let him go, you'd better not be giving up any young assets -- that seems obvious.

But... in the case of Nene -- he's not that different from Pau in this same sense! He's only a year younger, and he's in his 12th year in the league. His enormous salary will be a boat anchor soon. So, in fact, I'd trade e.g. him and Ariza for Pau Gasol in a NY minute! Ariza is gone at the end of the year anyway, so would Pau be (i.e. that would be my plan), and we've have dumped Nene's contract. Our entire cap situation would be transformed!

But, I wouldn't do it to make us contenders, that wouldn't happen. I'd do it because I thought we needed to reboot the rebuild -- which is exactly what I do think. Without quality *young* bigs, we are going nowhere as a team.

That brings up the Nene for McGee trade. In fact, no, I didn't like the trade when it happened (mostly because of Nene's contract). Then Nene played like a superstar in his 300 season-closing minutes that year -- so I concluded that I'd been wrong. If he was going to play at that level through the length of his contract, he'd be a bargain! But, no, he isn't. That's dreaming.

But I wouldn't trade quality young prospects for Pau or anyone who I plan to let go at the end of the year. *Sure* I'd include one or more of Seraphin, Singleton, and Vesely -- they're not on my list of quality young prospects -- but I wouldn't include Porter.

You have to measure a player's potential against what it costs you to find out about that potential. Porter is on a rookie contract. Neither you nor I know whether he's going to be any good or how good. We have no idea, and your data points are just crystal ball stuff. But it's relatively cheap to find out, so I wouldn't send him anywhere.

That's my take -- make sense to you?

It dont basketball is relative like multiplication u cant add good players and become a good team
U have to add compatible players
If what u saying is true lakers shouldve been a top seed outwest last yr
Pistons is a top 5 team
Besides
WALL SHOWED PLAYERS MSKE OTHER PLAYERS BETTER LAST YEAR...DO U NEED BEAL AND ARIZA STATS?
and I said nothing of including porter in the gasol trade I said nene and ariza

Asik wouldnt put up #s like he did in Houston here...we dont have the floor spacing fire power or slashers at every postition like Houston did...they only had stretch 4s and 3pt shooters...any 7ft can put up his stats on tht team..bring asik here he would actually be worried about downlow considering we'll have to rely on his put backs...which make defenders put focus on blocking him out...

BASKETBALL IS RELATIVE...

Check boozer defensive rating...from yr b4 last...be was top 10...but he doesnt play defense...its cause noah does it so well he makes boozer look good...
Its like saying reggie evans is a pure monster on thr boards...no hes ok...but having lopez whos focuses more on boxout then actually getting to the rebound is the factor

I watch basketball not stats...

U should know nene was looking good because it was end of the season tank...if u actually think those stats are reliable tobias harris is a top 20 player considering he averaged 20/10 after April

Ur not making sense
U should kno pau gasol is a game changer u should realize nene is not...we would definitely mske the playoffs with pau...even without okafor, we'll probably end up a lottery team with jus nene...with okafor and pau we can be a top 5 seed and have a 2nd rd chance...with okafor and nene we fight for 7 and 8.and get swept then try again with monroe and nene and get swept...

Nene isnt a game change...monroe is jus al jefferson or milsap
Even if we get rid of nene and get mmonroe we're jus going to be a eastern pelicans with no anthony davis... (the brow is wayyyyyyy better than monroe)

Basketball is about roles...we csn have s great all around team (nuggets) but if we dont do something better than other teams in the league we wont get no where...

Players make players better...coaches make teams better..nene isnt making jan or seraphin better...hes not tryning to find them open looks...nene goes out there snd does his job for 25min...
Okafor harrington actually care how our younger players play...they wsnt them to be key contributors they dont tell them we lost cause they ain play better....they tell them wht to do to play better...they plsce confidence in them
..something thibs does when he tell snell to guard paul george...

U nt making sense to me...ur logic is illogical...Basketball isnt addition...jus cause a player average 20 points dont meam u can add them to ur team and he'll giv u 20pts...u gotta figure out hoe he got those 20pts who was on the floor with him, what type of points were they...every team not made the same...

So imfact youre wrong...Basketball is multiplication is honestly algerba..but in noways is it addition

Oh and pau is still a top 5 post player regardless of age...hes also 7 ft with long arms and no lingering health issues...not to mentiom he score pass and rebound better than nene...
Paul can hit a high post jumper with consistency...something we lack
He csn post effectively something we lack
He can do pick and rolls
He can defend the paint
And this is his lsst yr....a contract yr...
Pau can mske us contenders, he can bring plsyers like hibbert Chandler out of theyre element...which allows walls some lsnes and beal/webster/vesley slashers for easy layups or dunks or oops..
And with okafor back we have 2 willing defenders downlow both 7ft..

Now tell me how were not contenders tell me what we're lacking
Tell me how monroe...lmao
Or faried would be a better fit?

And this is pau last yr...we have 35mil in cap space and we csn show our playoff ability

[payitforward]

It dont basketball is relative like multiplication u cant add good players and become a good team
U have to add compatible players
If what u saying is true lakers shouldve been a top seed outwest last yr
Pistons is a top 5 team
Besides
WALL SHOWED PLAYERS MSKE OTHER PLAYERS BETTER LAST YEAR...DO U NEED BEAL AND ARIZA STATS?
and I said nothing of including porter in the gasol trade I said nene and ariza

Nene and Ariza for Gasol. I'm in. But for different reasons than yours. Everything else above is wrong. The Lakers had just the team you would have put together. Their problems were simple. Too many old guys who don't produce at the level they used to.

Asik wouldnt put up #s like he did in Houston here......
Its like saying reggie evans is a pure monster on thr boards...no hes ok...but having lopez whos focuses more on boxout then actually getting to the rebound is the factor... I watch basketball not stats...

Blah blah, deneem. Asik was terrific his 2d year in Chicago. Reggie Evans has been a monster rebounder everywhere he's played.

Statements don't become true just because you are certain of them and repeat them over and over. And, btw, how do you know how much basketball I watch? I watch a lot -- maybe as much as you. Maybe more.

U should know nene was looking good because it was end of the season tank...if u actually think those stats are reliable tobias harris is a top 20 player considering he averaged 20/10 after April.

Pathetic. Nene looked good, helping us win a lot of lat-season games, because it was a tank.... That's what you're saying?

As to Tobias Harris, he was better w/ Orlando than in very limited minutes with the Bucks, but a) he wasn't a "top 20" player, and b) he didn't average 20/10.

Ur not making sense

Look in the mirror, dude.

I'm done w/ this. But... even though you post a lot of BS I'm not putting you on "Ignore," on account of sometimes you write something funny. It's nice having you around.

[deneem4]

So were a team full of old guys??
What chicago bigmen isnt terrific??? Who chicago player isn't wanted?
I wish we would've sent vesley to chicago jus so they can bring out his potential and make us feel stupid
What did nene do the next season?
You're mad because u kno youre wrong...

Pau is a whole other player than nene...what free agent want to come here after seeing us get swept in the playoffs?
Atleast with pau nene would be gone...and we can analyze and fix ALL of our front court problems..
We get pau to go hard in the playoffs...2nd he frees up cap space
If okafor feels we have a chance again he'll sign here again...seein us go to 7 in the playoffs would spark bogut or monroe interest...we can get backups like ramon sessions...(7.4 in fta)
U plan on being a loser...u kno damn well nene wont giv us the minutes we need in the playoffs...
Theres alot of teams with cap space...lakers can get monroe they're self..
**** rockets can get monroe they give up asik lin snd picks...we gotta actually show were capable of something before we can get quality free agents to sign to us

[mhd]

Throwing it out there:

Wiz trade Emeka for Boozer
Philly trades JRich+Hawes for Emeka
Bulls trade Boozer for JRich+Hawes

Bulls get out of the luxary tax, while getting a good cheap backup center in Hawes. They save like 10 million next year by not having to amnesty Boozer. Philly gets out of JRich's 2nd year with the expiring of Emeka. Moreover, they save more money if Emeka is out for the year with his injury via the insurance money.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Throwing it out there:

Wiz trade Emeka for Boozer
Philly trades JRich+Hawes for Emeka
Bulls trade Boozer for JRich+Hawes

Bulls get out of the luxary tax, while getting a good cheap backup center in Hawes. They save like 10 million next year by not having to amnesty Boozer. Philly gets out of JRich's 2nd year with the expiring of Emeka. Moreover, they save more money if Emeka is out for the year with his injury via the insurance money.

From ideas previously expressed: I'm all in on Nene/Ariza for Gasol. Like pif, no way would I trade Porter in any Gasol deal. I could see possibly parting with Porter in a deal involving: Faried, Monroe, Aldridge, Love, Horford or another young, promising big. But I'd rather wait and see Porter's game for at least 15-25 games before I would make anything but a sure lopsided for the Wizards deal.

Regarding your idea above, mhd: It certainly works for the Wizards. I can see it for Philly. I can't see it for the Bulls, however.

[deneem4]

I wouldnt trade porter for faried or monroe...
Faried is jus a high motor...monroe we can get thru freeagency

Now for cousins il do it...once sac realizes he jus isnt s good fit.
.if we dont make the playoffs Aldridge nor love will resign with us

[verbal8]

Read a lot of twitter chatter over Omer for Milsap, that makes perfect sense for both sides IMO. Too bad we can't get in on that. Still its just twitter chatter, but the idea a simple Ariza swap would have got it done might be foolish. Other teams might drive up Omer's value.

It does make a ton of sense. It can't happen until mid December, so at that point the Rockets know whether the Asik/Howard experiment works or they want to go another direction.

A productive Ariza plus incentive might be even better for the Hawks if Horford and Brand are working well at Center.

[hands11]

You two are talking past each other. You both make some valid points.

Good players produce what they produce and tend to follow the normal development and fade curves but fit does also matters which goes to the total roster and how the coach combines them. And there are always exceptions so there is an x factor.

Its is a team. Its about production, team chemistry and efficiency. And come playoffs, you need that, plus the ability to lock down on D to get a stop and you have to have a player who is a total mismatch that the other team needs to scheme to.

Calling it addition is way over simplifying things. Teams need lots of things and there are several styles a team can play and they need to match against other teams. And most coaches have a style so you need players to match it and you have to do all that for this year and moving forward under a salary system.

So if its addition, its multidimensional addition with lots of unknown variables.

So stats are useful for some things, but nothing replaces the eye test and getting to know these players by watching them live and on film. Then it take a chief to put it all together. Then you need some injury luck.

Lots of this get simplified by having a player like a Kobe, MJ, LeBron, Magic, Bird, or Duncan, but most teams don't have that player. And for the most part, even those players were helped in how they developed into great winning at the top pros with either great coaching or vet teams that helped groom them to reach their greatness. Of them, LeBron might have gotten the least of that until he went to Miami.

Its because of this last stuff that you add a PP, KG, Dirk or Pau even when they are on the downside. They are what can most help a Beal and Wall to reach the potential. Right now, Nene, AH and Okafor are the closest we have to that kind of player and non of them are in the class of the previous four.

Of them Dirk or Pau are potentially available. PP and KG aren't.

But if we have Nene, AH and Okafor all healthy, that's a decent support system for Wall, Beal and other younger players who have skills to develop. Its a volume approach and not having Okafor really hurts from it being what it could be.

So if you could trade Nene and Trevor A in a package for Pau or Dirk, I would do it. Both are upgrades when it goes to be winners. Then you resign Okafor and AH.

Then try to pick up Boozer when Chicago amnesties him. So you could have something like

Wall
Beal/Temple/GR Jr
Webster/GR Jr/Childress
Boozer/AH/Booker
Pau/Okafor

And Otto if we didn't have to give him up or whoever we got in return for him. Probably need a new GM who is more of a gourmet chief or EG needs to have better people under him so he can be more the VP.

Or with Dirk and either with no Boozer but you get another center to grind it out behind Okafor. Then target KD in 2016.

[Dat2U]

At this point I'm only interested in moves that further the TANK. I'm all in on Randle, Wiggins, Gordon, Parker, Exum, et all...

I wouldn't trade the '14 pick unprotected for anything (that includes Monroe or Faried). If we do trade the pick, it should be done with full lottery protection because I'm almost certain this is a lottery team and potentially a high one).

Absolutely no selling of young assets for a short term gain. No Boozer's, No Gasol's, No future picks to squeeze out 3 additional wins this season.

[Ruzious]

But... in the case of Nene -- he's not that different from Pau in this same sense! He's only a year younger, and he's in his 12th year in the league.

Nene was born 9/13/82. Pau was born 7/6/80.