Had Shaq gone to Cleveland in 2005 instead of Miami

JordansBulls · Post #1 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:52 pm

Had Shaq gone to Cleveland in 2005 instead of Miami, how many titles do the Cavs win with Shaq and LBJ from 2005 thru 2010?

Dupp · Post #2 » by **Dupp** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:29 pm

I'm not so sure they win any. Shaq had a pretty steep decline around the time LBJ started to turn into a really great player. Maybe one but im not so confident.

RayBan-Sematra · Post #3 » by **RayBan-Sematra** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:02 pm

Not sure really.
I mean if Wade doesn't get injured they probably make the Finals in 05.

Depending on how well Lebron plays those two years I could imagine them making the Finals and possibly winning.
Then again I don't think LBJ was on the same level as Wade during those years and I believe he generally struggled against Detroit which would make beating them in 05 seem rather unlikely and worsen there chance to make the Finals in 06 also.

Then I look at 2007. Lebron made the Finals that year right?
Shaq would have certainly helped against the Spurs size though I don't think he would have been enough to sway the series in their favor.

I think it is likely they win none but I think they'd have a "chance" in 05 & 06.

enuggz · Post #4 » by **enuggz** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:06 pm

I'd have to say zero. The Cavs would have to give up Ilgauskas, Boozer, Wagner, Williams plus picks and the ineptness of their GM to put players around them I just don't see much change in Cleveland.

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Mr MoJo Risin · Post #5 » by **Mr MoJo Risin** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:11 am

donut

Shaq and Lebron aren't a good mix. Lebron plays better with small ball and shooters, having everyone spread the court where he can drive or pass. Shaq would make it tough for Lebron. The lanes would close in on Lebron and take him out of the half court game.

wallsfamily · Post #6 » by **wallsfamily** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:30 am

But could you see a Shaq Lebron pick and roll and Lebron's passing would be a beast. Lebron could get his points the 15 minutes he is on the floor without Shaq! I say 06, 09

BattleTested · Post #7 » by **BattleTested** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:40 am

wallsfamily wrote:But could you see a Shaq Lebron pick and roll and Lebron's passing would be a beast. Lebron could get his points the 15 minutes he is on the floor without Shaq! I say 06, 09

Neither of these guys was ever a particularly good pick and roll player. When you're talking about early Lebron before he developed his jumpshot, he wouldn't have worked well with someone who drew the defense into the lane. They wouldn't have been a good fit at that point.

As for the question, I'd say 06 is their best shot. Miami's out of the picture basically. Detroit under Flip Saunders after 2 Finals runs wasn't the same team. They wouldn't have to deal with the Spurs coming out of the west. Lebron entered his prime in that year, he became a legit top 5 player. Shaq was still elite as well, and clearly the best Center in the NBA. They'd have a great shot that year, and I think they beat Dallas.

After that Shaq really starts to decline. They might make the Finals in 07 but the Spurs still beat them handily. In 08 Boston is just a better team. 09 might be interesting with an MVP Lebron and a semi-competent supporting cast, plus a Shaq who had made the all star team. The main thing with Shaq this year is his ability to counter Dwight, which they desperately needed in that ECF. They might be able to get through that series with O'neal countering Howard, but I don't see them getting past LA.

So to answer your question, between 05 and 09 I see 3 Finals appearances and 1 win.

wallsfamily · Post #8 » by **wallsfamily** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:56 am

Battle tested Lebron runs the pick and pop with Z, pick and roll with Varejoe constantly with the Cavs. Signature Shaq Kobe play was a pick and roll. Shaq also loved to run to middle on semi break the great passing Lebron would find him everytime. This dumb notion that a penetrator would not play well with Shaq is idiotic. I coach and love having a penetrating guard dump off passes to a big. In addition, Shaq has some of the best hands in history for the Lebron passes. The problem would be the lack of imagination from Mike Brown.

wallsfamily · Post #9 » by **wallsfamily** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:01 am

My bad battle tested I saw Lakers fan during the Kobe Shaq fusses and you think that is how it is with other wings. Not! Magic was very effective with Kareem because he gave Kareem the ball. Remember also 05 was the year Cleveland was turned down by Allen and Redd. with Shaq Lebron and one of those. Donyell would have been a better starter with Shaq and Eric Snow, I say at least two championships. Lebron fan since 2001!

JordansBulls · Post #10 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:06 am

wallsfamily wrote:But could you see a Shaq Lebron pick and roll and Lebron's passing would be a beast. Lebron could get his points the 15 minutes he is on the floor without Shaq! I say 06, 09

2006 is interesting because that means Miami doesn't win it and Cleveland already took Detroit 7 that year.

wallsfamily · Post #11 » by **wallsfamily** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:44 pm

RayBan-Sematra wrote:Not sure really.
I mean if Wade doesn't get injured they probably make the Finals in 05.

Depending on how well Lebron plays those two years I could imagine them making the Finals and possibly winning.
Then again I don't think LBJ was on the same level as Wade during those years and I believe he generally struggled against Detroit which would make beating them in 05 seem rather unlikely and worsen there chance to make the Finals in 06 also.

Then I look at 2007. Lebron made the Finals that year right?
Shaq would have certainly helped against the Spurs size though I don't think he would have been enough to sway the series in their favor.

I think it is likely they win none but I think they'd have a "chance" in 05 & 06.

I disagree about wade better than Lebron ever but the key is Shaq forces Duncan and Oberto to play defense. Remember having Shaq probably draws one of the super shooters from the free agent class of 2005. And a big three of Lebron, Shaq and Redd, Allen or Joe Johnson would be beastly. Also Varejoe would be the perfect backup for Shaq

ccameron · Post #12 » by **ccameron** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:15 pm

I'm not sure Lebron was a better player than Wade from '04-'07, so I'm not sure they win any. Remember, in '06, it took Wade to have the GOAT finals performance to beat Dallas. You can't expect that performance from anybody.

The only time that there might have been a chance, I think, would have been '05 -- the Heat fell out of the playoffs when Wade went down. Shaq was still very good then, so he might have had a chance with Lebron. Although I think that Heat supporting cast was better than what was in Cleveland. Mabe '07, too, but I don't know how much of a factor Shaq would have been at that point.

Reservoirdawgs · Post #13 » by **Reservoirdawgs** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:55 pm

MAYBE one, although I would come closer to saying none. In this scenario, who do the Cavs trade for Shaq?

Like others said, 2006 would be their best chance and that is with a 21-year old Lebron and a completely inept organization trying to surround them with talent. I think their best case scenario would be beating the Pistons and then having to get lucky against the Mavs to win. I don't think Shaq would have been much of a factor against a much better Spurs team in 2007.

snoopdogg88 · Post #14 » by **snoopdogg88** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:09 pm

people are acting crazy here

Shaq wasn't on that much of a decline.

They would have won 1. Maybe not in 04-05, but 05-06 or 06-07.

Reservoirdawgs · Post #15 » by **Reservoirdawgs** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:18 pm

snoopdogg88 wrote:people are acting crazy here

Shaq wasn't on that much of a decline.

They would have won 1. Maybe not in 04-05, but 05-06 or 06-07.

EDIT: nvm.

E-Balla · Post #16 » by **E-Balla** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:40 pm

Not 05 Lebron wasn't good enough yet and the Spurs would've beat them. In 2006 it took Wade having the GOAT Finals performance to beat Dallas. Yeah I think they lose that year too. 07 is interesting but Shaq wouldn't have tipped the scales. Maybe they make the Finals in 09 but LA would've trampled them.

So zero.