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Caldwell-Pope

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Caldwell-Pope 

Post#1 » by consultant » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:05 am

Hi All,

Just wanted to get some input from the board on how many minutes Caldwell-Pope might get per game in regular season games. I see he is playing around 30-35 in the preseason. You think he'll play that much moving forward?

Thanks.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#2 » by Blkbrd671 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:18 am

consultant wrote:Hi All,

Just wanted to get some input from the board on how many minutes Caldwell-Pope might get per game in regular season games. I see he is playing around 30-35 in the preseason. You think he'll play that much moving forward?

Thanks.



IT honestly depends on Stuckey, if stuckey continues to be inconsistent, then we'll definitely be seeing 30-35 minutes games form KCP. The exact minutes is up in the air, but i expect that by the end of the season KCP is starting. My worry is that he'll hit his rookie wall early with the amount of energy he spends on both ends of the floor. IF stuckey BY SOME MIRACLE actually plays decent, KCP's minutes will be somewhat limited due to our coach being oldschool, but his 3point shooting ability and defensive tenacity may force cheeks to play him.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#3 » by Cowology » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:19 am

consultant wrote:Hi All,

Just wanted to get some input from the board on how many minutes Caldwell-Pope might get per game in regular season games. I see he is playing around 30-35 in the preseason. You think he'll play that much moving forward?

Thanks.

I'm not sure anybody really knows, but I would not use pre-season as any sort of indicator.

Mo Cheeks tends to like vets and both Stuckey & Jennings have been out with injuries. I'll be happy to see KCP get 18-22 mpg. We all hope he can earn his way to 30+, but he hasn't played a single regular season game yet and we have a crowded backcourt.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#4 » by Minas » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:02 am

My guess would be 20-24mpg
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#5 » by Blkbrd671 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:13 am

honestly i hope we take him along slowly, we can afford to sit him at the beginning of the year with the personnel we have. limited his minutes and increase them at season's end. A guy like KCP will be far more valuable towards teh end of the seaosn than beginning, barring injuries
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Post#6 » by dan2314 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:19 am

We all want him to start and get 30 mins a game.
But it seems unlikely with a full lineup. Cheeks has made no secret that he would rather play billups and stuckey ahead of a rookie, which would not leave too many minutes for him.
Although he did look very impressive, you cant really judge it on the preseason since jennings and stuckey have missed the whole thing and billups only played about half of them.
The good thing is he overtook singler for it early. I expect him to do the same to stuckey and then billups - Maybe even from day 1 since the logical opening day lineup would be billups at the 1 and pope at the 2. (Except for the fact we'd have 3 pgs and 1 sg if billups plays point) - im just hoping if he gets the opening day start he may never lose it and billups plays the backup pg(for the few games hes healthy) and bynum/siva become irrelevant
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#7 » by dan2314 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:41 am

Blkbrd671 wrote:honestly i hope we take him along slowly, we can afford to sit him at the beginning of the year with the personnel we have. limited his minutes and increase them at season's end. A guy like KCP will be far more valuable towards teh end of the seaosn than beginning, barring injuries


Please explain. This makes almost no sense to me. Apart from a few rookie mistakes his gamestyle could really benefit from just being out on the court.


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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#8 » by He Filled it Up » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:05 am

dan2314 wrote:
Blkbrd671 wrote:honestly i hope we take him along slowly, we can afford to sit him at the beginning of the year with the personnel we have. limited his minutes and increase them at season's end. A guy like KCP will be far more valuable towards teh end of the seaosn than beginning, barring injuries


Please explain. This makes almost no sense to me. Apart from a few rookie mistakes his gamestyle could really benefit from just being out on the court.


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This team is going to struggle to space the floor, and making KCP the "designated shooter" from opening day is way too much to ask for. Honestly I think that has already manifested itself in SL and the preseason. Everyone knows that KCP can shoot, but settling into a NBA game to be point where your sure about every shot and every move you make is extremely rare for a rookie. It takes time to develop that intuition, and if you thrust a guy into a role without allow that to develop it will be very difficult for him to improve at his own pace.

Bring Drummond along slowly seems to have worked out extremely well. The ability has always been there, but I have no doubt that if we would have thrown him into the fire (like most of us wanted), he wouldn't be as far along as he is today. Again, his UConn experience kind of proves it.

I'd say unless we continue to experience backcourt injuries like this there is no way KCP averages 30-35 minutes before New Years, probably longer. That is a ton of time, and were a team that A) has sort of a recent bad track record to overplaying rookies, B) a coach that leans on vets, and C) is trying to win as many games as possible. I just don't see anyway KCP gets those kinds of minutes.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#9 » by dan2314 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:19 am

He Filled it Up wrote:
dan2314 wrote:
Blkbrd671 wrote:honestly i hope we take him along slowly, we can afford to sit him at the beginning of the year with the personnel we have. limited his minutes and increase them at season's end. A guy like KCP will be far more valuable towards teh end of the seaosn than beginning, barring injuries


Please explain. This makes almost no sense to me. Apart from a few rookie mistakes his gamestyle could really benefit from just being out on the court.


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This team is going to struggle to space the floor, and making KCP the "designated shooter" from opening day is way too much to ask for. Honestly I think that has already manifested itself in SL and the preseason. Everyone knows that KCP can shoot, but settling into a NBA game to be point where your sure about every shot and every move you make is extremely rare for a rookie. It takes time to develop that intuition, and if you thrust a guy into a role without allow that to develop it will be very difficult for him to improve at his own pace.

Bring Drummond along slowly seems to have worked out extremely well. The ability has always been there, but I have no doubt that if we would have thrown him into the fire (like most of us wanted), he wouldn't be as far along as he is today. Again, his UConn experience kind of proves it.

I'd say unless we continue to experience backcourt injuries like this there is no way KCP averages 30-35 minutes before New Years, probably longer. That is a ton of time, and were a team that A) has sort of a recent bad track record to overplaying rookies, B) a coach that leans on vets, and C) is trying to win as many games as possible. I just don't see anyway KCP gets those kinds of minutes.


drummond and kcp are VERY different cases. drummond was/is extremely raw with his all around ability, and due to his body, needed to be managed, as not only is the chance of breaking down very high, but also his skillset, IQ and understanding how to exploit his insane amount of size is going to take time regardless of how many minutes he got.
KCP has shown since day 1 of summer league that no matter how many offensive touches he gets, or how many shots he makes, that he makes a huge difference on the court. the only thing missing for him right now to have a very high chance for rookie of the year in my eyes is confidence. the best way to fix that is for him to have a some big games, and thats going to happen from him being out there for a good amount of time and letting him take the right shots and play good defense which we've seen will lead to easy shots for him. not by throwing him out there for 10-15 minutes with the second unit (let alone giving him only garbage time) and saying the only way you get more minutes is if you are crazy efficient and score a bunch in these few minutes.. thats only going to put more pressure on him.
thats the difference between him and drummond, his game allowed him to just come in and be relentless for a few minutes with him knowing he wasnt obliged to play 35 minutes so that conditioning wouldnt be an issue and because he wasnt going to be expected to score a ton, just to go and get some hustle rebounds and see where that gets you.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#10 » by ImHeisenberg » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:40 am

It really depends on KCP's shot falling more than anything. If he can actually become a reliable knock down shooter from the 3, which we all believed he would be when he was drafted, he will force his way into more minutes at the 2.

If he keeps shooting like he has in the pre-season, Stuckey will continue to get the lions share of minutes there.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#11 » by Billl » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:26 pm

You are going to get close to 30 minutes unless you are starting, and KCP won't be starting right away.

And honestly, he hurt his cause in the preseason. His shot wasn't falling, and he continued to hoist away from outside with a lot of questionable shots. That's kinda NBA 101 for a shooting guard. If your shot is rough, concentrate on getting an easy bucket. Don't just keep jacking long shots and hoping 1 goes in. Don't get me wrong, the guy can knock down jumpers and it will eventually go his way. It's just that if you want to be a starting quality NBA shooting guard, you need to know how to work your way into a game. To his credit, he didn't let it affect his defense, but he was a real liability on offense so far. He's got to play smarter than that if he wants to stay on the court.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#12 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:13 pm

I think it is funny people seem to think KCP is a starting SG. He hasn't done much besides play good defense. I am not even sure he is going to be a starting SG in this league yet. I think he is more of a project for this year and next year we will see if he is a capable starter. This team is fighting for the playoffs. They are done rebuilding and need to take the next step. An unproven rookie who struggles on the offensive end is not going to be playing over 30mpg in this league unless that team is a bottom feeder. I sure hope the Pistons trade for a legit starting SG or Stuckey comes back to prove people wrong.

Anyways, I hope Bynum kills it while Jennings is out. He has proven to me that he can play great ball at times. Just very inconsistent.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#13 » by DBC10 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:36 pm

I personally believe KCP deserves to start, since his rebounding and Defense potential is through the roof. His shot will come since most rookies struggle early on anyways, adjusting to the pace of the NBA and the 3 point rainbow. He's a lights out shooter for sure, but just needs to continue to be brought along consistently by the coaching staff and his teammates, I'm sure he'll be fine and will be more than serviceable. He was actually decently efficient from the 3 once his shot started falling. The thing is, I'm sure the coaching staff wanted him to jack all those 3s since they wanted him to gain confidence in making them. No way in hell KCP gets that many calls for shots in a regular season, and even less in the playoffs. So I have no worries about him supposedly jacking up shots inefficiently.

Anyone saying otherwise is severely underrating his potential.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#14 » by Brapman » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:13 pm

I think KCP has star potential. To get there, he'll have to tighten his handle - doable in time, for sure, and be an efficient scorer with the ability to make tough long range shots with people flying at him, and be able to knock down shots coming off picks - both things being something that I think are totally within his skill set. He's going to be a great defensive player - making him an all-around star level player if this all comes together.

I don't see him as the next Wade or anything like that, but as a guy who will be a borderline all-star caliber player.

This kid will play. And it's his defense and hustle that get him PT this season. As he plays more and more, his teammates will look for him to knock down shots more as the season goes along. The only thing that could interfere with his PT this season is a) Stuckey playing career excellent BB, or b) the Pistons making a trade for a veteran SG who plays good BB for us.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#15 » by MotownMadness » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:37 pm

Still though Stuckey was absolutely horrible as our starting 2 last year.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#16 » by DetroitPistons » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:40 pm

I have a feeling Cheeks is going to do with KCP what Frank did with Drummond and ruin his rookie year. KCP should be starting without question. His defense and rebounding alone are reason enough and everyone knows that his shot is going to start falling sooner rather than later. Anyone who says he shouldn't be starting hasn't payed attention to him this preseason and is only relying on the boxscore.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#17 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:19 pm

I don't think a rookie should be given the reigns just because they have potential. Minutes must be earned as KCP right now is not better than Stuckey or Billups. Thus, a coaches job is to win games and KCP may not have the experience to be in the right position to make the right plays. Once he EARNS that trust, then he can be a starter. Pending injuries of course. And, Drummonds rookie season was not ruined as he was not ready to play that many minutes. He was a fouling machine back then who could barely survive 30mpg until the end of the season.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#18 » by tmorgan » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:36 pm

I think Billups is likely better than KCP on a minute-by-minute basis, but there's no way Chauncey can play heavy minutes at a high level. Unless something really strange happens, there's absolutely no way Stuckey is a better player than KCP. KCP's brick-filled preseason is about what Stuckey has done for his career from distance, and KCP's defense is already better. The only advantage Stuckey has is his ability to get to the line, which we should already have covered with our frontcourt.

I'm pretty sure opening night is going to be Chauncey-Stuckey at the 1-2, though. I'm just hoping we don't bring KCP around TOO slowly. Drummond's pace is acceptable, even if it doesn't make me happy.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#19 » by zeebneeb » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:40 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:I don't think a rookie should be given the reigns just because they have potential. Minutes must be earned as KCP right now is not better than Stuckey or Billups. Thus, a coaches job is to win games and KCP may not have the experience to be in the right position to make the right plays. Once he EARNS that trust, then he can be a starter. Pending injuries of course. And, Drummonds rookie season was not ruined as he was not ready to play that many minutes. He was a fouling machine back then who could barely survive 30mpg until the end of the season.
I just cant disagree with you more. The team sucked for years, and you don't get better by waiting.

If your team is really good already, and he would be replacing some all-star piece, then yeah earn it.

Not the case here, in any way shape or form. The team sucks, we all know who Stuckey is, and the team is young, and needs to grow together.

There is zero good things to come from not starting Pope. Unless of course Cheeks wants to get fired, like Frank did.
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Re: Caldwell-Pope 

Post#20 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:13 pm

Lets see. Pistons spent all this money to make this a playoff team. Thus, coach must play Rookie who will make mistakes over proven veterans who give this team a better chance of making the playoffs. Coach would be insane to risk his job playing KCP over Stuckey and Billups unless KCP outplays either one of them and earns his freaking minutes. Coach Cheeks could get fired for not taking this team to the playoffs. KCP does not put him into a better position of winning games at this point. Only delusional fans who think throwing a rookie into the fire means brighter future. But, that just may create chemistry issues over proven veteran players (Stuck, CB, Singler) being kicked to the sidelines just because fans want to see a rookie develop. Give me a break. Coach agrees with me and I am sure just about every coach in the freaking league would do the same. KCP will get some minutes and depending on how well he plays in those limited minute, he can earn more. Anything better than that is stupidity by the coach.
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