Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV

[nate33]

Why would any team trade anything for a young PG that even a rebuilding team in pure tank mode like Phoenix has no interest in? The unhappiness expressed about this trade over not keeping Marshall is silly. I can understand being unhappy about the trade - but basing that on not keeping Marshall... I don't understand. Teams have already set their rosters. He's got no trade value. They're probably keeping Singleton (for the moment), because his salary can be more useful as potential trade filler.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. There is no reason to believe that Marshall will amount to anything in this league. Singleton can at least play viable NBA-caliber defense and is therefore more useful as trade filler.

[JAR69]

Why would any team trade anything for a young PG that even a rebuilding team in pure tank mode like Phoenix has no interest in? The unhappiness expressed about this trade over not keeping Marshall is silly. I can understand being unhappy about the trade - but basing that on not keeping Marshall... I don't understand. Teams have already set their rosters. He's got no trade value. They're probably keeping Singleton (for the moment), because his salary can be more useful as potential trade filler.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. There is no reason to believe that Marshall will amount to anything in this league. Singleton can at least play viable NBA-caliber defense and is therefore more useful as trade filler.

Just to be clear, I don't care who gets traded. And I agree keeping or not keeping Marshall has nothing to do with the analysis of the Gortat trade. I just think there is an opportunity to make a small move that might help at the trade deadline if the Wizards are trying to make another move, and has very little cost to either team.

[Ruzious]

Sorry JAR for making it sound like I was picking on your post. It's more the 1 or 2 other dozen posts by others who were pointing to Marshall as a key part of the trade.

[Ruzious]

No I think it makes far more sense to take a risk on Porter long term than taking a risk on Ariza. Porter is cheaper and has a ton more upside. We've got Webster to start in the immediate future so we can afford to take this risk.

Plus Ariza is probably a more valuable trade option right now. High draft picks usually trade for a major loss when you deal them early in their careers. Dealing Porter now means selling low on him. Even if he wasn't a decent, starting caliber player, Ariza is a moderately valuable expiring. He should have trade value today.

Deal Ariza, not Porter.

You just pointed out all the reasons why Porter has far more trade value than Ariza, and then come to the conclusion that Ariza has more trade value than Porter. Your reasoning made sense, but your conclusion that Ariza has more trade value is the polar opposite of all the points you made.

Yeah, you're right.

Porter should be more valuable than Ariza.

I didn't make my thought process clear. What I should have said is that Ariza will be easier to deal for fair value than Porter will be. I think it's really difficult to trade high lotto picks for good value early in their careers, before they start actualizing their potential. You're likely to have to sell low on them, like Sacramento and Houston did with Thomas Robinson.

On the flip side, Ariza's trade value is pretty clear. The league knows what kind of player he is and expiring contracts are really tradeable. I think you can deal him and realistically expect to get back what he's worth in return.

Don't get me wrong - all things being equal, I'm with you - trade Ariza rather than Otto if they had the same trade value. But as long as Ariza is starting, I want to see how he does and if he is good enough as a starting 3 to consider an opportunity to trade Otto IF (and only if) an opportunity to trade for a really good big comes along. I'm still thinking that Horford is going to become available at some point.

[payitforward]

The Wizards should be exploring a minor trade that would open up a little more room under the lux tax limit for a potential trade later this season. According to Hoopsworld, they are about $979,000 under the limit now, including all the new salaries. Assuming they have no plan to keep Marshall over Singleton, they should be talking to teams under the cap who might want to take a flyer (flier?) on Marshall about trading him and his $2 million salary for a phantom 2nd round pick (top 57 protected or something like that). The Wizards would throw in the $2 million to pay for Marshall's salary, which they would be paying him anyway if they just cut him. If there is a trade to be made later in the season in which the Wizards would need to take back more salary under the 150% rule, they could do it without going over the limit.

Wizards also could take back a minimum contract and save less space.

To trade Marshall he'd have to be on our roster. To add him to a roster that already has 15 guaranteed salaries you'd have to waive one of those 15. If we waived one of the 15 and then traded Marshall we'd be back down to 14.

Don't you think Ernie was looking for a 3d team that might take some of those other guys? He couldn't find one willing to do a deal he could live with. As it is, Phoenix managed to get rid of most of the junk on their roster in this trade.

[JAR69]

Sorry JAR for making it sound like I was picking on your post. It's more the 1 or 2 other dozen posts by others who were pointing to Marshall as a key part of the trade.

It's all good, thanks.

[Ruzious]

Gortat had a legit all-star quality 2011-12 season but fell off to just a good solid season last season. Question - was it because of an injury that he should bounce back from?

This was a post from September 19th, so some of us were discussing the possibility of trading for Gortat a while back - more than likely giving EG the idea. As always, we're a step ahead here.

[Dat2U]

The Wizards should be exploring a minor trade that would open up a little more room under the lux tax limit for a potential trade later this season. According to Hoopsworld, they are about $979,000 under the limit now, including all the new salaries. Assuming they have no plan to keep Marshall over Singleton, they should be talking to teams under the cap who might want to take a flyer (flier?) on Marshall about trading him and his $2 million salary for a phantom 2nd round pick (top 57 protected or something like that). The Wizards would throw in the $2 million to pay for Marshall's salary, which they would be paying him anyway if they just cut him. If there is a trade to be made later in the season in which the Wizards would need to take back more salary under the 150% rule, they could do it without going over the limit.

Wizards also could take back a minimum contract and save less space.

Why would any team trade anything for a young PG that even a rebuilding team in pure tank mode like Phoenix has no interest in? The unhappiness expressed about this trade over not keeping Marshall is silly. I can understand being unhappy about the trade - but basing that on not keeping Marshall... I don't understand. Teams have already set their rosters. He's got no trade value. They're probably keeping Singleton (for the moment), because his salary can be more useful as potential trade filler.

Agreed. Marshall was not an NBA player. Getting upset over not keeping him is foolishness. Slow PGs that can't shoot don't have NBA career's. There's no upside there and really no hope of sticking in the league. He can probably make good money overseas and if I was his agent, that's where I'd be guiding him.

What's funny is that PHX had no problem pulling the plug on an obvious bust like Marshall only one yr after drafting him despite the fact he was a lottery pick. Meanwhile were wasting roster spots holding on to obvious busts like Vesely, Singleton & Seraphin because Ernie is still trying to save face.

[Rafael122]

The Wizards should be exploring a minor trade that would open up a little more room under the lux tax limit for a potential trade later this season. According to Hoopsworld, they are about $979,000 under the limit now, including all the new salaries. Assuming they have no plan to keep Marshall over Singleton, they should be talking to teams under the cap who might want to take a flyer (flier?) on Marshall about trading him and his $2 million salary for a phantom 2nd round pick (top 57 protected or something like that). The Wizards would throw in the $2 million to pay for Marshall's salary, which they would be paying him anyway if they just cut him. If there is a trade to be made later in the season in which the Wizards would need to take back more salary under the 150% rule, they could do it without going over the limit.

Wizards also could take back a minimum contract and save less space.

Why would any team trade anything for a young PG that even a rebuilding team in pure tank mode like Phoenix has no interest in? The unhappiness expressed about this trade over not keeping Marshall is silly. I can understand being unhappy about the trade - but basing that on not keeping Marshall... I don't understand. Teams have already set their rosters. He's got no trade value. They're probably keeping Singleton (for the moment), because his salary can be more useful as potential trade filler.

Agreed. Marshall was not an NBA player. Getting upset over not keeping him is foolishness. Slow PGs that can't shoot don't have NBA career's. There's no upside there and really no hope of sticking in the league. He can probably make good money overseas and if I was his agent, that's where I'd be guiding him.

What's funny is that PHX had no problem pulling the plug on an obvious bust like Marshall only one yr after drafting him despite the fact he was a lottery pick. Meanwhile were wasting roster spots holding on to obvious busts like Vesely, Singleton & Seraphin because Ernie is still trying to save face.

Their new GM got hired in May. I think it has more to do with "Kendall's not my guy, I have no loyalty towards him" type of attitude more than anything. New regime, new players, etc.

[sashae]

Agreed. Marshall was not an NBA player. Getting upset over not keeping him is foolishness. Slow PGs that can't shoot don't have NBA career's. There's no upside there and really no hope of sticking in the league. He can probably make good money overseas and if I was his agent, that's where I'd be guiding him.

Somewhere, Eric Snow is shaking his fist at his monitor.

[Zonkerbl]

Eric Snow slow? Dude's defense was why Michigan State was so successful the year that Shawn Respert got picked 6th. Turns out Eric Snow was the legit NBA talent on that team, and he got picked in the second round.

[Zonkerbl]

So if Cousins has another meltdown, could we put together a package for him? Gortat+Ariza+Porter maybe?

[deneem4]

So if Cousins has another meltdown, could we put together a package for him? Gortat+Ariza+Porter maybe?

2015 1st as well...and we'll have to take some contracts back...

Other teams like the magic can package young players and picks for him...
I even see trailblazers swinging Aldridge for him

[Ruzious]

Eric Snow slow? Dude's defense was why Michigan State was so successful the year that Shawn Respert got picked 6th. Turns out Eric Snow was the legit NBA talent on that team, and he got picked in the second round.

Good memory, Zonk. Both played for the Bucks. Snow was tough as bleep and had his best year's playing with Iverson in Philly, if I recall correctly. Respert's career and life was hurt by stomach cancer, but it's hard to tell if he would have excelled if not for that - as he was an under-sized shooting guard.

[mhd]

What about this deal: Wiz trade Porter+Ves for Milsapp+future lotto protected 1st?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why would any team trade anything for a young PG that even a rebuilding team in pure tank mode like Phoenix has no interest in? The unhappiness expressed about this trade over not keeping Marshall is silly. I can understand being unhappy about the trade - but basing that on not keeping Marshall... I don't understand. Teams have already set their rosters. He's got no trade value. They're probably keeping Singleton (for the moment), because his salary can be more useful as potential trade filler.

Agreed. Marshall was not an NBA player. Getting upset over not keeping him is foolishness. Slow PGs that can't shoot don't have NBA career's. There's no upside there and really no hope of sticking in the league. He can probably make good money overseas and if I was his agent, that's where I'd be guiding him.

What's funny is that PHX had no problem pulling the plug on an obvious bust like Marshall only one yr after drafting him despite the fact he was a lottery pick. Meanwhile were wasting roster spots holding on to obvious busts like Vesely, Singleton & Seraphin because Ernie is still trying to save face.

Their new GM got hired in May. I think it has more to do with "Kendall's not my guy, I have no loyalty towards him" type of attitude more than anything. New regime, new players, etc.

I agree with you, Rafael.

i I am very much convinced the Wizards missed an opportunity to steal a player who is going to break out. Why do I say this?

-- Kendall Marshall was great at UNC. Much better than Larry Drew, II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendall_Marshall

However, after a disappointing showing at Georgia Tech in which the Tar Heels lost by twenty points, Roy Williams took the gamble and inserted Marshall into the starting lineup at a win versus Clemson. Soon Drew transferred to UCLA, allowing Marshall to take on the leadership role with poise; as he dished out sixteen assists to three turnovers at a win over Florida State on February 6.

Marshall had an excellent sophomore season in which he set the all time UNC assist record of 351,surpassing former UNC point guard Ed Cota as the all time leader in assists in a single season in school history. On March 9, 2012, Marshall set another record, the all-time ACC record in assists in a single season with 311, surpassing the previous record set by former Georgia Tech point guard Craig Neal.[1]

-He's 22 years old. Very young player who had a legit reason for a slow start -- had to play behind Goran Dragic. He's already shown glimpses of being very effective.

On July 16, 2012 Marshall agreed to a two-year rookie contract with the Phoenix Suns that has a team option for a third year.[7][8] In Marshall's first Summer League game he had five assists and three steals.[9] In his final 2012 Summer League game, Marshall had a double-double with 15 points and 10 assists in a victory against the Memphis Grizzlies.[10]

On November 4, 2012, Marshall made his first official NBA appearance against the Orlando Magic. He did not record any statistics in that game. He had two assists and one steal in a blowout loss to the defending NBA Finals champion Miami Heat a day later. On November 29, 2012, the Suns assigned Marshall to the Bakersfield Jam of the NBA D-League.[11] In his first game in the D-League, Marshall put up 21 points, 8 assists, and 2 rebounds in a 102-95 victory over the Santa Cruz Warriors. Marshall was recalled by the Suns on December 21, 2012.[12]

On February 5, 2013, Marshall recorded an NBA season-high 11 points with 4 assists in a 96-90 victory against the Memphis Grizzlies. On March 9, 2013, Marshall had 9 points, 2 rebounds, and 4 assists in a 107-105 victory over the Houston Rockets. Marshall's first official start in the NBA came on March 27, 2013 against the Utah Jazz. He had 13 assists in that game, his first game to record double-digit assists.

Dat, I think you're writing Marshall off too soon. I bet he's better than Maynor. Remember, Marshall played less than Beal as a rookie. Early on, Bradley Beal didn't look great. IMO Kendall Marshall would have been terrific next to Beal in case Wall got hurt. I think, however, it made probably more sense to keep pure SG, and two-time NBA champ, Shannon Brown on the roster, since the Wizards already invested in Eric Maynor at PG.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What about this deal: Wiz trade Porter+Ves for Milsapp+future lotto protected 1st?

No. Millsap makes too much money now. He's no longer the bargain/value player at his contract that he once was. Also, Porter might be much better than this summer.

[stevemcqueen1]

So if Cousins has another meltdown, could we put together a package for him? Gortat+Ariza+Porter maybe?

If Cousins has another meltdown to the point where management will trade him, he'd be an enormous risk to take on. He's got a big long term contract now. Not sure I'd want to go out and acquire that AND give up a package of nice players for him in the process.

I think the Cousins ship sailed when he signed that new deal. Maybe we can revisit him in three or four years.

[stevemcqueen1]

What about this deal: Wiz trade Porter+Ves for Milsapp+future lotto protected 1st?

No. Millsap makes too much money now. He's no longer the bargain/value player at his contract that he once was. Also, Porter might be much better than this summer.

Millsap's contract isn't that bad. 9 million for two years for a quality PF?

But I agree, I'm against this trade. Of course Porter is going to be better than the two summer league games people are killing him for.

To me this really would be a short term move that mortgages the future. If you move Porter, you have to get someone back with a lot of long term upside. Porter has a lot of long term upside.

There are very few situations where I'd be willing to deal Porter. Remotely realistic ones anyway. Our best bet is to keep Porter and develop him as the third piece of our long term foundation.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

steve, I stand corrected. $9M is not a bad value for Millsap at all. I was flat wrong.

We agree on Porter.