Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing

[Knighthonor]

Cant do it right Ted than we have to do it our self!!!!

Anybody have the torches? Time to run this guy out of here!!!

[hands11]

There is stuff to blame EG for, Gils contract is not one of them. Thats on Abe.

EG is the one who shipped that hot turd contract out of here and Orlando is still paying it until 2016.

Who was it that negotiated the terms of this "hot turd contract"?, it wasn't the dying Abe.

Ernie Grunfeld was out-smarted by Gilbert Arenas. Huge contract with no protection for the Wizards organization. No team-option at the end of the contract. No performance clauses considering the knee surgery. All negotiated by Ernie Grunfeld. You would never see this kind of contract written-up by a competent GM.

Yes, Abe was the one that told Gil directly he was his guy and he wouldn't let him go... "no matter what."

Gil had already publicly made it know he wanted a max contract.

That was the starting point of the negotiations. From there, they actually got him to leave some money on the table so they could sign other players.

You can try to rewrite history is you want, but this is what happened.

[closg00]

Remembering the lost draft of 2011.

#6 Jan Vesely, option declined
# 18 Chris Singleton, option declined
# 34 Shelvin Mack, gone

[montestewart]

There is stuff to blame EG for, Gils contract is not one of them. Thats on Abe.

EG is the one who shipped that hot turd contract out of here and Orlando is still paying it until 2016.

Who was it that negotiated the terms of this "hot turd contract"?, it wasn't the dying Abe.

Ernie Grunfeld was out-smarted by Gilbert Arenas. Huge contract with no protection for the Wizards organization. No team-option at the end of the contract. No performance clauses considering the knee surgery. All negotiated by Ernie Grunfeld. You would never see this kind of contract written-up by a competent GM.

Yes, Abe was the one that told Gil directly he was his guy and he wouldn't let him go... "no matter what."

Gil had already publicly made it know he wanted a max contract.

That was the starting point of the negotiations. From there, they actually got him to leave some money on the table so they could sign other players.

You can try to rewrite history is you want, but this is what happened.

I think the quote was from Arenas, quoting Pollin as saying that Arenas was "his guy and he won't let me leave no matter what." Maybe Pollin said it, just like that, and maybe he didn't. I know Pollin's history, but consider the source for that particular quote.

[hands11]

This has already be established before.

I think I even posted the video of Abe saying it. It in whatever thread we went over all of this in last time.

Look, if people don't want to except that Gil was decided by Abe, then you just aren't plugged into the facts of what happened and how Abe had a special Abe thing for Gil. He thought of Gil like a son. And Gil was filling the seat making him a good money.

People want to just say Abe was some old man that was out of touch but Abe was involved. He even picked his own head coach before he picked his GM. How ofter has an owner done that. I would be really interested in knowing the answer to that. And for the record, Abe had man love for AJ as well.

We know how Abe was with Wes. Abe had a track record and some people just seem to want to ignore it. Even after I have posted it 100 times now.

Look, Abe did a lot of good for DC. He built the booth and the Capitol Centre. He was a man with a big heart. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about him as a basketball team owner. As a younger man, he got it done once. He won it all. Big E, Wes, Bobby D. Not taking that from him either. I loved that team back in the 70s.

But I lived through the crap since then. Before EG. There was always Abe and I watched him blunder things. Over and over and over. Do you remember Susan O'Malley ?

[montestewart]

This has already be established before.

I think I even posted the video of Abe saying it. It in whatever thread we went over all of this in last time.

Look, if people don't want to except that Gil was handled and decided by Abe, then you just aren't plugged into the facts of what happened and how Abe had and Abe special thing for Gil.

People want to just say Abe was some old man that was out of touch but Abe was involved. He even picked his own head coach before he picked his GM. How ofter has an owner done that. I would be really interested in knowing the answer to that. And for the record, Abe had man love for AJ as well.

We know how Abe was with Wes. Abe had a track record and some people just seem to want to ignore it. Even after I have posted it 100 times now.

Look, Abe did a lot of good for DC. He built the booth and the Capitol Centre. He was a man with a big heart. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about him as a basketball team owner. As a younger man, he got it done once. He won it all. Big E, Wes, Bobby D. Not taking that from him either. I loved that team back in the 70s.

But I lived through the crap since then. Before EG. There was always Abe and I wanted him blunder things. Over and over and over. Do you remember Susan O'Malley ?

Well here's Michael Lee discussing what Arenas tweeted him:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/wizardsi ... out_c.html

[nate33]

I agree with hands11 that it's pretty unfair to blame EG for the Arenas resigning. First, Arenas was a legit franchise player before he got hurt. Letting him walk would have been a commitment to totally rebuild at a time when Abe was unlikely to live long enough to see the end result. Secondly, Golden State was willing to pay Arenas a max contract. Blaming EG for not negotiating better terms is pretty silly. EG managed to negotiate significantly better terms than the max contract Golden State had on the table.

The only way you can blame EG is if you believed that EG had a strong reason to suspect that Arenas' injury would never heal properly. We'll never know for sure, but presumably, EG consulted with doctors much smarter than you or I on the matter and came to the conclusion that Arenas would recover.

[hands11]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... e-wizards/

Gortat, Seven degrees of separation.

"In a strange way, the trade almost brings the Gilbert Arenas trade to Orlando full circle, since the Magic dealt Gortat to Phoenix in a separate deal on the same day in December 2010. Now after dealing Arenas for Lewis and Lewis for Okafor, the Wizards landed a big man by swapping Okafor for Gortat."

--

And we still have to see how the Trevor A story ends. Right now he is still a key piece to them making the playoffs and maybe being able to make some noise in them, and yet he is also their best trade piece to bring something back like all the trade thread ideas.

Kind of amazing when you consider that Gil contract. If that was the worst contract of the 21 century, then what do you call turning it into all these assets ?

http://xfinity.comcast.net/slideshow/sp ... tracts/16/

NBA's 12 Worst Contracts Of The 21st Century
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/list/20 ... century#12
--
Now to be fair, they needed to throw in what looks like a 15th or later first round pick to keep this connection train going but they wouldn't have even been at the dance if they had straight up amnestied Gil, which they would still have hanging over their head since they would still be paying him today. And amnesty wasn't even an option when the trade was made which makes it even more amazing. And for all that cap space that would have gotten you, its hard to get good asset to come to a franchise that was a low as the Wizards were post gungate.

Love him, hate him or something in between, if that was the worst contract of the 21 century, then moving it has to be considered one of the greatest GM moves ever. Specially when you turn it into a much more tradeable asset that turned into actual viable players that are tradeable assets.

And on the other side, you have him taking Ves and Singleton instead of one of ( Klay, Markieff Morris, Kawhi Leonard, Nikola Vucevic then one of T Harris or Faried and Mack over Tyler Honeycutt, Chandler Parsons or even a long ball on Jeremy Tyler. All picks they could have taken even without moving on the board. And amazingly blundered draft.

That's EG. Amazingly good moves to recover from the Gil mess. Even a decisive planned tank that yielded Wall
And he gets you Caron Butler for Kwame. But then you get the 2011 draft.

Its all about Otto now. Depending on how that asset turns out will have a lot to do with the EG story. You can blow one top pick but not two in 3 years.

[BarnabyJones]

Remembering the lost draft of 2011.

#6 Jan Vesely, option declined
# 18 Chris Singleton, option declined
# 34 Shelvin Mack, gone

[verbal8]

The only way you can blame EG is if you believed that EG had a strong reason to suspect that Arenas' injury would never heal properly. We'll never know for sure, but presumably, EG consulted with doctors much smarter than you or I on the matter and came to the conclusion that Arenas would recover.

I think where EG does deserve some blame in the situation is the oversight of Arenas' rehab.

[verbal8]

Remembering the lost draft of 2011.

#6 Jan Vesely, option declined
# 18 Chris Singleton, option declined
# 34 Shelvin Mack, gone

The 2nd highest team with the nothing to show for the 2011 draft is the Trailblazers(21-Nolan Smith, 51-Jon Diebler).

[closg00]

Remembering the lost draft of 2011.

#6 Jan Vesely, option declined
# 18 Chris Singleton, option declined
# 34 Shelvin Mack, gone

The 2nd highest team with the nothing to show for the 2011 draft is the Trailblazers(21-Nolan Smith, 51-Jon Diebler).

Diebler took a guaranteed overseas deal so you can't count that against Portland. The Wizards 0-3 draft set back the team for multiple years. Horrific draft.


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[verbal8]

Remembering the lost draft of 2011.

#6 Jan Vesely, option declined
# 18 Chris Singleton, option declined
# 34 Shelvin Mack, gone

The 2nd highest team with the nothing to show for the 2011 draft is the Trailblazers(21-Nolan Smith, 51-Jon Diebler).

Diebler took a guaranteed overseas deal so you can't count that against Portland. The Wizards 0-3 draft set back the team for multiple years. Horrific draft.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

Not really a criticism of Portland, more an illustration of how badly the draft was blown by the Wizards. From eyeballing it, it seems a pick in the 50s seems to either get cut or stay overseas the majority of the time. I agree if the pick is good enough to get guaranteed foreign money, the team was probably on to something in terms of talent level.

[closg00]

Actually Diebler was a name that was mentioned on the boards before the draft because of his 3-point shooting. Guys on the board have begged for a 3-pt specialist for years. I could see Diebler coming back to the NBA in a Kyle Korver-type role for some team in a few years.


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[Nivek]

Worth mentioning that Shelvin Mack's rookie PPA: 53. Maynor's rookie PPA: 57.

Last season, I wrote a piece at the old blog with this headline: FOR SECOND TIME, WIZARDS CUT MACK TO KEEP LESS PRODUCTIVE PLAYERS.

Seriously, if the Wizards wanted a Maynor-quality backup PG, they could have just kept Mack.

[JonFromVA]

I agree with hands11 that it's pretty unfair to blame EG for the Arenas resigning. First, Arenas was a legit franchise player before he got hurt. Letting him walk would have been a commitment to totally rebuild at a time when Abe was unlikely to live long enough to see the end result. Secondly, Golden State was willing to pay Arenas a max contract. Blaming EG for not negotiating better terms is pretty silly. EG managed to negotiate significantly better terms than the max contract Golden State had on the table.

Gilbert may have been a legit max player in a league that hands them out like candy, but he was never a franchise player. What EG can be blamed for, is trying to build a team the wrong way. He can be blamed for not moving Gilbert when his value was high.

[payitforward]

I agree with hands11 that it's pretty unfair to blame EG for the Arenas resigning.

Agree 100%. Maybe true of the Jamison deal as well.

[payitforward]

Remembering the lost draft of 2011.

#6 Jan Vesely, option declined
# 18 Chris Singleton, option declined
# 34 Shelvin Mack, gone

The 2nd highest team with the nothing to show for the 2011 draft is the Trailblazers(21-Nolan Smith, 51-Jon Diebler).

Pathetic, huh?

But why stop there?

2008:
#18 McGee -- poor college numbers, etc. Meanwhile the pick could have been traded (verified by what trades did happen that night) to get us Nic Batum, DeAndre Jordan -- and maybe even Mario Chalmers too!

2009:
tragic trade -- didn't even get back Minny'd mid-round-1 pick (went to Denver and turned into Ty Lawson)

2010:
lucky ping pong balls (not skill) bring us John Wall
#17 Kevin Seraphin -- way below average NBA player.
#23 Trevor Booker -- good pick, no doubt. (Injuries not Ernie's fault)
#53 "H" -- who cares.

2012:
#3 Beal -- great prospect who was the default #3 pick
#32 Tomas Satoransky -- pathetic...
#46 Kyle O'Quinn -- all right! Oh wait a minute, we gave away that pick (in a strong round 2 )

2013:
#3 -- the ping pong balls helped us again! Ernie is demonstrably good at ping pong.
#37 -- wow we traded up for GRIII. Gave away a pick and Nate Wolters. Lets see who is better GRIII or Nate Wolters.

I can really see why LyricalRico has Ernie as his avatar. It's a humor thing.

[montestewart]

I agree with hands11 that it's pretty unfair to blame EG for the Arenas resigning.

Agree 100%. Maybe true of the Jamison deal as well.

Yeah, but how many spend much time trying? There's plenty of low hanging fruit in that putrid orchard.

[hands11]

I agree with hands11 that it's pretty unfair to blame EG for the Arenas resigning. First, Arenas was a legit franchise player before he got hurt. Letting him walk would have been a commitment to totally rebuild at a time when Abe was unlikely to live long enough to see the end result. Secondly, Golden State was willing to pay Arenas a max contract. Blaming EG for not negotiating better terms is pretty silly. EG managed to negotiate significantly better terms than the max contract Golden State had on the table.

Gilbert may have been a legit max player in a league that hands them out like candy, but he was never a franchise player. What EG can be blamed for, is trying to build a team the wrong way. He can be blamed for not moving Gilbert when his value was high.

Bringing Gil here was smart and lucky given who the franchise was at the time. He wasn't over paid initially.
After that, what choice did EG have ? You think Abe was going to let him trade him at his peak like I wanted ?

You think fans here would have applauded that ?

Again, EG can be bashed for things, Gil is not one of them.